Politics & Stuff

[Vesper 30,235]

Greece becomes first Orthodox Christian country to legalize same-sex marriage

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/02/16/greece-legalizes-same-sex-marriage-lgbt/

 

Greece on Thursday became the first majority Orthodox Christian country to legalize same-sex marriage — a watershed moment for the country’s LGBTQ community, which has long fought for visibility and rights in the shadow of the highly influential Greek church.

The bill also allows same-sex couples to adopt children and confers full parental rights on married partners, though it stops short of permitting gay couples to become parents through surrogacy, a limitation that has drawn criticism from rights groups.

Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis said on social media that Greece is “proud to become the 16th E.U. country to legislate marriage equality.” He called the step “a milestone for human rights, reflecting today’s Greece — a progressive, and democratic country, passionately committed to European values.”

Thursday’s vote crossed party lines, with 176 of 300 lawmakers in the Hellenic Parliament voting in favor of the measure. Seventy-six rejected the bill, two abstained and 46 were not present.

The change comes despite staunch opposition from the socially conservative Greek church, which last year issued a statement saying that same-sex marriage does not maintain the traditional family structure and that children are not “pets for anyone who wants to feel like a guardian.”

Pope Francis allows blessings of same-sex couples, shifting Vatican guidance

Orthodox Christianity is one of the world’s three major Christian traditions and is largely found in Europe. There are 14 Orthodox Christian majority countries in the world, according to 2017 data from Pew Research Center, many of which are former Soviet states such as Ukraine and Belarus.

Thursday’s vote followed intense debate in parliament “against a backdrop of very public homophobic and transphobic speech,” Amnesty International said in a statement.

“For far too long, our love has been questioned, our families disregarded, and our rights denied,” advocacy group Europride 2024 Thessaloniki said in a statement on social media. “This isn’t just about legal recognition; it’s about validation, acceptance, and the affirmation of our inherent worth.”

Athens Pride, along with a coalition of LGBTQ groups, welcomed the bill as “a historic turning point,” but said the government could go further, including recognition of trans parenthood.

Konstantinos Eleftheriadis, a diversity and inclusion consultant and professor at the Sciences Po university in Paris, said while the bill “doesn’t cover everything,” he hopes it will spark broader regional change on LGBTQ rights.

The change, he said, also, “to some extent refreshes the image of Greece around the world.”

For at least one lawmaker, Thursday’s vote was of great personal significance: During a Thursday debate on the bill in parliament, Spyros Bibilas, who is openly gay, recalled being drawn to male statues at museums as a child and crying in private because he knew he had to hide his identity, local media reported.

He said these “secret tears” led him to fight “so that other children do not cry.”

[cosmicway 1,333]

On 16/02/2024 at 14:23, Vesper said:

Greece becomes first Orthodox Christian country to legalize same-sex marriage

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/02/16/greece-legalizes-same-sex-marriage-lgbt/

 

Greece on Thursday became the first majority Orthodox Christian country to legalize same-sex marriage — a watershed moment for the country’s LGBTQ community, which has long fought for visibility and rights in the shadow of the highly influential Greek church.

The bill also allows same-sex couples to adopt children and confers full parental rights on married partners, though it stops short of permitting gay couples to become parents through surrogacy, a limitation that has drawn criticism from rights groups.

Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis said on social media that Greece is “proud to become the 16th E.U. country to legislate marriage equality.” He called the step “a milestone for human rights, reflecting today’s Greece — a progressive, and democratic country, passionately committed to European values.”

Thursday’s vote crossed party lines, with 176 of 300 lawmakers in the Hellenic Parliament voting in favor of the measure. Seventy-six rejected the bill, two abstained and 46 were not present.

The change comes despite staunch opposition from the socially conservative Greek church, which last year issued a statement saying that same-sex marriage does not maintain the traditional family structure and that children are not “pets for anyone who wants to feel like a guardian.”

Pope Francis allows blessings of same-sex couples, shifting Vatican guidance

Orthodox Christianity is one of the world’s three major Christian traditions and is largely found in Europe. There are 14 Orthodox Christian majority countries in the world, according to 2017 data from Pew Research Center, many of which are former Soviet states such as Ukraine and Belarus.

Thursday’s vote followed intense debate in parliament “against a backdrop of very public homophobic and transphobic speech,” Amnesty International said in a statement.

“For far too long, our love has been questioned, our families disregarded, and our rights denied,” advocacy group Europride 2024 Thessaloniki said in a statement on social media. “This isn’t just about legal recognition; it’s about validation, acceptance, and the affirmation of our inherent worth.”

Athens Pride, along with a coalition of LGBTQ groups, welcomed the bill as “a historic turning point,” but said the government could go further, including recognition of trans parenthood.

Konstantinos Eleftheriadis, a diversity and inclusion consultant and professor at the Sciences Po university in Paris, said while the bill “doesn’t cover everything,” he hopes it will spark broader regional change on LGBTQ rights.

The change, he said, also, “to some extent refreshes the image of Greece around the world.”

For at least one lawmaker, Thursday’s vote was of great personal significance: During a Thursday debate on the bill in parliament, Spyros Bibilas, who is openly gay, recalled being drawn to male statues at museums as a child and crying in private because he knew he had to hide his identity, local media reported.

He said these “secret tears” led him to fight “so that other children do not cry.”

The adopted children will become gay.
How did your father convince you to become Olympiakos Piraeus ?
It's the same thing.

[Vesper 30,235]

Just now, cosmicway said:

The adopted children will become gay.
How did your father convince you to become Olympiakos Piraeus ?
It's the same thing.

wtf

you do NOT become gay if you have gay parents

ffs, my parents are straight

we have so many gay and lesbian friends who have adopted or had sperm donor children and none of the children who are old enough to self define in terms of orientation are gay 

it is not some learnt behaviour that can be 'converted' away

gay conversion therapy is 100 per cent homophobic dross

 

[cosmicway 1,333]

1 minute ago, Vesper said:

wtf

you do NOT become gay if you have gay parents

ffs, my parents are straight

we have so many gay and lesbian friends who have adopted or had sperm donor children and none of the children who are old enough to self define in terms of orientation are gay 

it is not some learnt behaviour that can be 'converted' away

gay conversion therapy is 100 per cent homophobic dross

 

I did not say "gay conversion therapy" is of any value.
But when I was eight-nine years old there was a gay boy in the neighbourhood.
His father to make him stop being gay was bringing him all the gorgeous manequins at home - my mother was saying.
Fcuk - nobody did that for me.
However the adopted children will become gay and it's the same as Olympiakos Piraeus.

[Vesper 30,235]

Just now, cosmicway said:

I did not say "gay conversion therapy" is of any value.
But when I was eight-nine years old there was a gay boy in the neighbourhood.
His father to make him stop being gay was bringing him all the gorgeous manequins at home - my mother was saying.
Fcuk - nobody did that for me.
However the adopted children will become gay and it's the same as Olympiakos Piraeus.

gay parents do not 'make' their children gay

that is patently false

and 

a father cannot make his son, IF the son is actually gay, 'ungay'

cannot believe in 2024 we still have to deal with this 😿

[cosmicway 1,333]

Just now, Vesper said:

gay parents do not 'make' their children gay

that is patently false

and 

a father cannot make his son, IF the son is actually gay, 'ungay'

cannot believe in 2024 we still have to deal with this 😿

The NHS "ungay therapy" was abusive and a total fallacy.
But do we actually know if people who were previously gay have become ungay on their own. We don't.
We have all kinds of weird statistics.
Such as which race have the biggest c*cks,
They have nominated the French.
But you know how this was done ? In the funeral parlours !
So we don't know about people who stopped being gay, through some natural process.
In our case it's simple however they follow their dad's soccer team.
Now those kids whose parents were not interested in sport may become supporters of any team. But the rest follow the family tradition, Luton, Exeter, Yeovil - whichever it is.

[Vesper 30,235]

9 hours ago, cosmicway said:

But do we actually know if people who were previously gay have become ungay on their own. We don't.

BULLSHIT

We DO know,

There are thousands of legit studies.

The 'you can de-queer yourself' claptrap is religion-spawned hate-spawned nonsense.

I, as a member of the queer comminty, take massive offense at this bollocks being spewed here.

What's next? How to change your racial genetic makeup? Your adult body height?

 

It is also utter madness to suggest that a child can be 'made gay' by their adoptives parents' sexual orientation.

Seriously, that is sheer lunacy, and starts to stray into hate crime territory.

It is DEFFO the type of rhetoric that has lead to us queer folk being maimed, tortured, and/or killed in truly dreadful numbers in the past.

The Lies and Dangers of Efforts to Change Sexual Orientation or Gender Identity

https://www.hrc.org/resources/the-lies-and-dangers-of-reparative-therapy

[cosmicway 1,333]

6 minutes ago, Vesper said:

BULLSHIT

We DO know,

There are thousands of legit studies.

The 'you can de-queer yourself' claptrap is religion-spawned hate-spawned nonsense.

I, as a member of the queer comminty, take massive offense at this bollocks being spewed here.

What's next? How to change your racial genetic makeup? Your adult body height?

 

It is also utter madness to suggest that a child can be 'made gay' by their adoptives parents' sexual orientation.

Seriously, that is sheer lunacy, and starts to stray into hate crime territory.

It is DEFFO the type of rhetoric that has lead to us queer folk being maimed, tortured, and/or killed in truly dreadful numbers in the past.

The Lies and Dangers of Efforts to Change Sexual Orientation or Gender Identity

https://www.hrc.org/resources/the-lies-and-dangers-of-reparative-therapy

Ok.
You are a member of the queer community out of personal choice.
You don't want to change.
But if someone wants to change, out of shame or because he decided it is boring, is it possible or impossible ?
I don't know, you tell me (but I know the so called NHS therapy in the fifties was ridivulous - I 'm not talking about the "NHS therapy" of the Victoran years).
However the idea it is congenital is known to be just another hoax.
May be true of some rare indivuduals who were born as hermaphrodites, but it's a hoax  - it's a personal choice.
This is not the issue however and marriage is also not the issue.
But the adopted children will be dragooned into becoming loatkis before they reach an appropriate age for such decisions.
This is what will be happening.

[Vesper 30,235]

18 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

You are a member of the queer community out of personal choice.

the fuck I am

I am lesbian in the same way I am mixed race

the same way I am a cis gendered female

the same way I am 1.83m tall

you are WAY over the line m8

[cosmicway 1,333]

2 minutes ago, Vesper said:

the fuck I am

I am lesbian in the same way I am mixed race

the same way I am a cis gendered female

the same way I am 1.83m tall

you are WAY over the line m8

So is Liana Kannelis of the KKE who voted against the law.

[NikkiCFC 8,344]

On 17/02/2024 at 18:07, cosmicway said:

The adopted children will become gay.
How did your father convince you to become Olympiakos Piraeus ?
It's the same thing.

Are u angry about this?

https://metro.co.uk/2024/02/21/greek-parliament-angry-netflix-turning-alexander-great-gay-20318223/

Greek parliament genuinely livid with Netflix for ‘turning’ Alexander The Great gay

 

Although it's well known fact it was normal back in old Greece. 

Edited February 21, 2024 by NikkiCFC

[Vesper 30,235]

peckerwood yank RW preacher

 

[cosmicway 1,333]

10 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Are u angry about this?

https://metro.co.uk/2024/02/21/greek-parliament-angry-netflix-turning-alexander-great-gay-20318223/

Greek parliament genuinely livid with Netflix for ‘turning’ Alexander The Great gay

 

Although it's well known fact it was normal back in old Greece. 

It most certainly was n't.
They were putting gays to the sword.
The early Christians who were also anti-gay of course created those myths.
You know the word "paederast" - it means child molester.
But do you know what this meant to the ancient Greeks ?
The paederast was simply the school tutor.
When you go to college you are assigned to a tutor - a paederast !
Mine was dr. Smith - an ex polaris submarine captain.
So this word was perverted and means what it means today.

You must n't listen to Turkish-Nigel Farage-Trump-Albanian-Skopjan propaganda.
But all this was not Turkish-Nigel Farage-Trump-Albanian-Skopjan anti-Greek propaganda in the beginning.
It was German propaganda of before the first world war, as the Germans believed in pan-germanism then too.
It was also Stalin-Lyssenko propaganda and Stalin was very much anti-Greek before the second world war.
He changed his mind after because he believed the Greeks saved Moscow in 1941 by delaying the German invasion.

 

[NikkiCFC 8,344]

1 hour ago, cosmicway said:

It most certainly was n't.
They were putting gays to the sword.
The early Christians who were also anti-gay of course created those myths.
You know the word "paederast" - it means child molester.
But do you know what this meant to the ancient Greeks ?
The paederast was simply the school tutor.
When you go to college you are assigned to a tutor - a paederast !
Mine was dr. Smith - an ex polaris submarine captain.
So this word was perverted and means what it means today.

You must n't listen to Turkish-Nigel Farage-Trump-Albanian-Skopjan propaganda.
But all this was not Turkish-Nigel Farage-Trump-Albanian-Skopjan anti-Greek propaganda in the beginning.
It was German propaganda of before the first world war, as the Germans believed in pan-germanism then too.
It was also Stalin-Lyssenko propaganda and Stalin was very much anti-Greek before the second world war.
He changed his mind after because he believed the Greeks saved Moscow in 1941 by delaying the German invasion.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pederastic_erotic_scene_Louvre_F85bis.jpg

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Art_grècia.jpg

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Clarke_Ars_Erotica_62.jpg

Are these cups, paintings, coins from BC also propaganda created by Germans and Stalin? Many ancient Greek philosophers and historians wrote about this. 

Plutarch for example wrote about army of male lovers 'Sacred Band of Thebes'.

Pluto, Lucian and other authors as well. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Greece#:~:text=During these times%2C homosexuality was,and%2C in fact%2C perverse.

 

Edited February 22, 2024 by NikkiCFC

[cosmicway 1,333]

4 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pederastic_erotic_scene_Louvre_F85bis.jpg

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Art_grècia.jpg

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Clarke_Ars_Erotica_62.jpg

Are these cups, paintings, coins from BC also propaganda created by Germans and Stalin? Many ancient Greek philosophers and historians wrote about this. 

Plutarch for example wrote about army of male lovers 'Sacred Band of Thebes'.

Pluto, Lucian and other authors as well. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Greece#:~:text=During these times%2C homosexuality was,and%2C in fact%2C perverse.

 

No they had an offense called "arsenokoitia" which means "male sleeping with male".
This was punishable by death.
Lesbianism was not known to the ancient Greeks.
The various images indicate that they had a different conception od decency not that homosexuality was approved.
Anyway as homosexuality was considered criminal close to our time, the German Falmeraier school and Stalin wanted to defame Greece

From Quora:
 

Actually being homosexual was condemned by law in Ancient Greece.

I dont know why people here that have phd in plilosophy do not state Solon Laws in book 5, chapter 5, article 332. They are quite clear in the consequences if an Athenian had a relationship with a man.

These are the laws and the consequences in Ancient Greek if someone has a homosexual relationship.

“Αν τις Αθηναίος εταιρήση, με έξεστω αυτω των εννέα αρχόντων γενέσθαι, μηδέ ιερωσύνην ιερώσασθαι, μηδέ συνδικήσαι τω δήμω, μηδέ αρχήν αρχέτω μηδεμιάν, μήτε ενδημον, μήτε υπερόριον, μήτε κληρωτήν, μήτε χειροτονητήν, μηδέ επικυρήκειαν αποστελλέσθω, μηδέ γνώμην λεγέτω, μηδέ εις τα δημοτελή ιερά εισίτω, μηδέ εν ταις κοιναίς σταφονοφορίες σταφανούσθω, μηδέ εντός των της αγοράς περιρραντηριων πορευέσθω.Εάν δε ταύτα τις ποιή,καταγνωσθέντως αυτού εταιρείν, θανάτω ζημιούσθω.”

What it states is:

If an Athenean εταιρήση (makes mate) he will not be allowed to become member of the 9 lords, he will be able to become a priest, he will not be able to become an advocate of the people, he will have no authority inside our outside of athens, he cannot become a war preacher, will not be able to express his opinion, will not be allowed to enter the sacred public temples, will not be able to take walks happening in Agora and lastly it says whichever citizen is condemned as an erotical person with the sex of the same gender and ignores any of these laws is punishable by death.

So if you are condemned as “gay” or had a homosexual intercourse and take a walk in agora or express your opinion in an important matter you are condemned to death.

Moreover Aeschines a greek statesman and one of the 10 attic orators condemns with clarity the legislative (prohibitive) framework for homosexuality.

Edited February 22, 2024 by cosmicway

[Vesper 30,235]

1 hour ago, cosmicway said:

Lesbianism was not known to the ancient Greeks.

OMG

where do you think the words lesbian and sapphic came from??

The word lesbian is the demonym of the Greek island of Lesbos, home to the 6th-century BCE poet Sappho. From various ancient writings, historians gathered that a group of young women were left in Sappho's charge for their instruction or cultural edification. Little of Sappho's poetry survives, but her remaining poetry reflects the topics she wrote about: women's daily lives, their relationships, and rituals. She focused on the beauty of women and proclaimed her love for girls.

 

Sappho’s homoerotic poetry was beloved in ancient Greece – and burned centuries later

https://aeon.co/videos/sapphos-homoerotic-poetry-was-beloved-in-ancient-greece-and-burned-centuries-later

Living on the island of Lesbos around 600 BCE, Sappho was a priestess lyric poet who wrote and sang eloquently on themes of love, passion and longing. Her work and influence spread across ancient Greece. Plato called her ‘the tenth Muse’ and her likeness appeared on coins. However, only small fragments of her work have survived the passage of time and the actions of those once tasked with preserving it. This animation from TED-Ed details Sappho’s influence, life and work, and the many mysteries that still surround her. In particular, the video explores why the erotic and homoerotic themes in her poetry would eventually lead to its destruction, and how her life inspired the word ‘lesbian’.

 

[lucio 5,418]

The Romans called male homosexuality practiced with adolescents or, more precisely, ephebic love, the "Greek vice" (Horace, Ep. 2, 1, 156). They rightly said that it was unknown in more ancient Roman times. It was something totally foreign to the traditional Roman mentality; therefore they absolutely condemned it. However in Horace's time it had gained a certain foothold in Rome, where it took various forms. Cicero wrote: "It seems to me that this habit of loving boys originated in the Greek gymnasiums, where these love affairs are free and tolerated"

 

 

[cosmicway 1,333]

I can imagine why homosexuality became a "forbidden fruit" in one way or another.
A Cassius Clay size out of the middle of nowhere can have some pretty disturbing effects.

[Vesper 30,235]

Israeli video trend mocks Palestinians’ suffering | Al Jazeera Newsfeed

 

[Vesper 30,235]

Alabama drivers licence.

 

 

Shock, anger, confusion grip Alabama after court ruling on embryos

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/02/20/alabama-supreme-court-ivf-embryos/

 

Alabama doctors are puzzled over whether they will have to make changes to in vitro fertilization procedures. Couples have crammed into online support groups wondering if they should transfer frozen embryos out of state. And attorneys are warning that divorce settlements that call for frozen embryos to be destroyed may now be void.

Throughout Alabama, there is widespread shock, anger and confusion over how to proceed after the state Supreme Court ruled Friday that frozen embryos are people, a potentially far-reaching decision that could upend women’s reproductive health care in a state that already has one of the nation’s strictest abortion laws.

“Women who actually know what happened, they feel under attack and almost powerless,” said AshLeigh Meyer Dunham, a Birmingham mother who conceived a child through in vitro fertilization and is a partner in a law firm that specializes in assisted reproductive technology cases. “First you had the Dobbs decision and now this. What does this even mean?”

The state Supreme Court decision signals a new chapter in America’s fight over reproductive rights and marks another blow to women’s rights groups that expect similar challenges in other conservative states. The ruling is limited to Alabama, but legal experts say it could embolden the “personhood movement,” which asserts that unborn children should be granted legal rights beginning at conception.

The decision was decried Tuesday by the White House.

“This is exactly the type of chaos that we expected when the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade and paved the way for politicians to dictate some of the most personal decisions families can make,” White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre told reporters traveling with President Biden.

Interviews with physicians and attorneys in Alabama, as well as advocates on both sides of the issue nationwide, paint a confusing path forward for IVF clinics trying to interpret the ramifications of the ruling. Although physicians hope the Alabama legislature will limit the impacts of the ruling, they warn that the most dire consequence of the ruling is that some Alabama IVF clinics may be forced to suspend their operations.

And even if they remain operational, physicians say patients could have to endure longer — and more costly — treatments to try to achieve a pregnancy.

“Under the current Alabama ruling, patients nor physicians nor IVF labs are going to be willing to have frozen embryos,” said Mamie McLean, a physician at one of the state’s largest fertility clinics, Alabama Fertility Specialists. “So if we are faced with two potential embryos that need to be transferred, modern practice would say transfer one and freeze one. But under this ruling, it may not be safe to freeze embryos so we will be forced to transfer two embryos … which increases the lifelong health risks to both mothers and children.”

The challenge to IVF in Alabama comes as the number of pregnancies conceived through the procedure has soared over the past decade. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 97,128 infants were born nationwide via IVF in 2021, the last year for which statistics were available. There are 453 IVF clinics nationwide, and every state except Wyoming has at least one clinic.

Jennifer Lincoln, a board certified OB/GYN who practices in Portland, Ore., said she doesn’t think people understand how “scary” the Alabama ruling is. She raised a common scenario: A patient undergoing IVF has an egg retrieval that leads to the creation of multiple embryos, with the hope that at least one turns into a live birth. If successful, the remaining embryos remain frozen for possible future use — but not all may be used.

“If someone has five embryos left and they decide not to have any more kids and want those embryos destroyed — and someone in that physician’s office hears that, could [the doctor] be criminalized for being an accomplice in a crime?” Lincoln asked.

What Alabama’s frozen embryos ruling means for IVF across the U.S.

The Alabama ruling is the first to attribute human rights to a developing organism at such an early stage following conception. The ruling states that “unborn children are ‘children,’” and that frozen embryos should be afforded the same protection as babies under the Wrongful Death of a Minor Act.

Lila Rose, president and founder of Live Action, a national antiabortion organization, heralded the court for showing “moral clarity” in ruling that the unborn deserve the same rights as children.

“You have children being created in petri dishes at will and then destroyed at will and used for experimentation,” Rose said. “It’s not acceptable to leave human beings on ice. It’s not acceptable to destroy them. These are not commodities.”

Katie O’Connor, director of federal abortion policy at the National Women’s Law Center, says the ruling will immediately disrupt reproductive care in Alabama because hospitals and doctors will be unclear about what they can and can’t do in terms of fertility treatments.

“Doctors are going to decide that these questions surrounding fertility treatments are not easily answerable and that the work is just too risky to do with the state,” said O’Connor, who predicted the Alabama decision will probably inspire antiabortion activists to push for similar protections in other states.

McLean, the Alabama doctor, cautions she is not yet ready to accept “the worst case scenario” that would result in clinics closing and patients being forced to receive treatment in other states. She expects Alabama’s medical community will be able to work with legislators and judges to carve out a middle ground that enables IVF treatments to continue.

Still, McLean blasted the ruling, saying it was not “grounded in medicine.”

“Unfortunately, this has become a political debate, but in reality this is a medical debate, and how we are able to practice medical care as physicians,” McLean said.

If no concessions to the court ruling are made, McLean said it could cost Alabama women more money because some doctors might only be willing to retrieve a limited number of eggs. In a typical IVF cycle, doctors stimulate the ovaries to produce as many mature eggs as possible. Those eggs are then fertilized in a lab and, if successful, turn into embryos. Multiple embryos are often needed to produce a single live birth.

“If we are to say, ‘Okay, I can fertilize two eggs instead of 10,’ we may not end up with any embryos or end up with an unhealthy embryo, so patients may need multiple egg retrievals to achieve the same pregnancy rate that we were trying to achieve with one retrieval,” McLean said. “Multiple attempts at retrieval will cost more money.”

McLean added she worries insurance companies could balk at those costs. She also worries that medical malpractice costs could go up and that it will become harder to attract physicians to the state.

“So, yes, there is a scenario where this closes fertility clinics in the state,” McLean said. “But we remain hopeful and absolutely expect a different path forward.”

Dunham, the Birmingham attorney, is even more pessimistic about the implications of the ruling. She noted that an online infertility support group she is a part of is already buzzing with discussion from Alabama couples about how to ship their frozen embryos out of state. It costs about $1,500 to mail the embryos to labs in Georgia or another state, but Dunham noted that many labs elsewhere are already facing strains on their storage capacities.

On Tuesday, Dunham said she was also fielding questions from divorce attorneys about whether settlement agreements that call for the destruction of a couple’s embryos can remain valid. The decision could also have implications for genetic testing of embryos, she said. Many patients rely on screening embryos to identify and prevent passing along genetic conditions.

Such testing can also identify which embryos have a normal number of chromosomes and are less likely to result in a miscarriage.

“If someone has a recurrent miscarriage, it could be due to a genetic disorder,” Dunham said. “You end up creating multiple embryos, and they usually genetically test to see which one has the best chance of making it.

“But if you say these are children, and they can’t be destroyed — we are looking at maybe not being able to test it, because it could hurt the embryo,” she said.

Even outside of Alabama, the ruling is causing an additional stress for IVF patients already undergoing an anxiety-inducing process.

Audra Stark, 40, has an 8-month-old daughter she conceived through IVF and calls it one of the most “mentally traumatic experiences” of her life. The Virginia mother went through the process three years ago after her physician told her she wasn’t able to ovulate and ended up freezing four embryos in hopes of growing her family.

When she heard about the Alabama news, Stark said she immediately wondered which state would follow.

“It’s scary because I think it’s going to be like dominoes falling,” Stark said. “I think it’s going to be like abortion restrictions where we’re going to see huge swaths of the country without access to these services.”