Politics & Stuff

[Vesper 30,216]

Nigel Farage: This is a massive crisis. We need mass deportations

 

exclusive

The Reform UK leader believes he will have one shot at No 10 — and next week will make his biggest move yet

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/nigel-farage-interview-reform-uk-v3lcnkbm9

 

Nigel Farage has had little time off this summer. Where most other politicians have been keen to head off for a much-needed break, he has spent most of it working — although not of his own volition.

“It has been a total catastrophic disaster,” he says, speaking in his constituency office in Clacton-on-Sea. “I tried to have a couple of weeks off. I was called away four times. I was having a week on the coast in Kent, I was having a week in Cornwall.

“Cornwall was important to me because all four of my adult children and grandchildren were there. Then there was a massive fire in Clacton. So I had to come back for that.

“And there were two other big donor visits and going to see JD [Vance, the US vice-president], which wasn’t a bad thing. I’m busy as hell.”

The Reform UK leader believes this is his “do or die” moment — his one shot at No 10. Britain, he says, is “going downhill very, very quickly” and there needs to be a “massive turnaround”. He argues he is the man to do it.

Two years ago such a statement would have been deemed fantasy. Now, with Reform having consistently led in the polls since April, it is no longer an unrealistic prospect. Sir Keir Starmer has even decided to treat him as the real leader of the opposition, all of which has served to give Farage an even bigger platform.

Next week, Farage will make his biggest move yet. On Tuesday he will publish his proposal for the mass deportation of hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants. To describe the plans as aggressive is an understatement.

Farage’s plan begins with leaving the European Convention on Human Rights

TIMES PHOTOGRAPHER RICHARD POHLE

They include the arrest of asylum seekers on arrival, automatic detention and forced deportation, with no right of appeal, to countries such as Afghanistan and Eritrea.

There are plans for deals with third countries such as Rwanda, a “fallback” option of sending people to British overseas territories such as Ascension Island and new criminal offences for people who return to the UK or destroy their identity documents.

The NHS, HM Revenue & Customs and the DVLA will be required to share data automatically so illegal immigrants can be tracked down and arrested. Every element of the plan is contentious and it is likely to encounter huge practical, political and legal obstacles. Farage appears to embrace the controversy.

“The aim of this legislation is mass deportations,” Farage says. “We have a massive crisis in Britain. It is not only posing a national security threat but it’s leading to public anger that frankly is not very far away from disorder. There is only one way to stop people coming into Britain and that is to detain them and deport them.”

Farage’s plan begins with leaving the European Convention on Human Rights and scrapping the Human Rights Act. This, he says, is relatively straightforward.

“It’s not a very difficult thing to do,” he says. “There isn’t any renegotiation agreement that needs to be done or anything like that. This can be done reasonably quickly.”

Migrants run to board a smuggler’s boat on the beach of Gravelines, northern France, last week

SAMEER AL DOUMY/AFP/GETTY IMAGES

The second part of Farage’s plan is to introduce a British Bill of Rights. Gone will be any mention of human rights from the statute books. In its place will be terms such as liberty and freedom of expression. “The freedom to do everything, unless there’s a law that says you can’t,” he says. “The opposite to that is the concept of human rights, which are state-given.”

Britain would also derogate from the Refugee Convention, the UN Convention Against Torture and the Council of Europe’s anti-trafficking convention. Farage argues that doing so is necessary because the UK is facing a “state of emergency”.

The next step is even more controversial. For months Reform has been working on the Illegal Migration (Mass Deportation) Bill, which will make it illegal for people to come to the UK illegally. They would be detained on “surplus” RAF bases, then deported.

Farage says that on coming to the UK in small boats people would face immediate arrest. As part of the plan, which is called Operation Restoring Justice, Farage’s government would build detention centres capable of detaining 24,000 people.

TIMES PHOTOGRAPHER RICHARD POHLE

His vision is for prefabricated buildings with canteens and medical facilities on site. People would not be allowed to leave and Farage believes they can be deported within 30 days.

“They have no right to claim asylum,” he says. “They would be arrested and detained. They’d be put into disused military bases. We would potentially need some prefab buildings put up, something like that.

“Don’t tell me we can’t put together facilities for people to stay because we can. They would be treated with a degree of civility, of course. They’re going to be fed and watered and looked after, given medical care if they need it.”

He contrasts the plans with how he views the present situation. “You have these young men from different cultures, Afghans being perhaps the worst example, who are literally free at licence to go out, work in the criminal economy and commit crimes,” he says. “And I think it’s the area of sexual crime that perhaps is the one that has upset the public the most. They should not be free to walk our streets, period.”

The legislative package would include powers giving the government the right to detain people without any recourse to bail. The home secretary would be put under a statutory duty to remove people from the UK.

Where would they be sent? This is perhaps the most contentious part of Farage’s plan. He wants to sign deals with countries such as Afghanistan and Eritrea, despotic regimes with dire human rights records.

Afghanistan under the Taliban has a dire human rights record

SAMIULLAH POPAL/EPA

“We have enormous muscle on these things,” he says. “We can be nice to people, we can be nice to other countries, or we can be very tough to other countries.

“But all the diplomatic levers that we have, if we have to use them, on visas, on trade, sanctions … I mean, Trump has proved this point quite comprehensively.”

But what of the risk of people being killed or tortured if they are sent back to their country of origin? The Taliban are unlikely to look kindly on people who have fled.

“I’m really sorry, but we can’t be responsible for everything that happens in the whole of the world,” he says. “Who is our priority? Is it the safety and security of this country and its people? Or are we worrying about everybody else and foreign courts? That’s what it comes down to. Whose side are you on?”

So how would he respond as prime minister if people were tortured because of his deportation policy?

“There is no particular reason why they should be tortured because they have gone back,” he says. “But, look, I can’t be responsible for despotic regimes all over the world. But I can be responsible for the safety of women and girls on our streets.”

Farage will also send people to third countries. He is open to reviving the Conservative Party’s Rwanda plan, which he says would work under his overhaul of the asylum system. Albania is another potential destination.

Suella Braverman, the home secretary at the time, inspects accommodation for deported asylum seekers in Kigali, Rwanda

CYRIL NDEGEYA/ANADOLU/GETTY IMAGES

There is another plank to the plan — a “fallback” of sending people to British overseas territories. “It’s there as a backstop. The message that if you come, you won’t stay is so important.

“Now, ideally, they’re going back to Iraq, they’re going back to Iran, they’re going back to wherever, Eritrea, Afghanistan. But if we have some problematic ones, then that’s the backstop. You will not be staying in this country if you pay a trafficker to cross the English Channel.”

Farage suggests asylum seekers could be sent to Ascension Island, 4,000 miles away in the South Atlantic. The island is notoriously difficult to get to and landing is said to be a treacherous experience. “It’s a long, long way and it would be expensive,” Farage says. “It can manage military craft. But again, it’s symbolism.”

But even if it proves to be viable, what if the overseas territories don’t want to accommodate thousands of asylum seekers? “Of course they won’t want them,” Farage says. “But that’s just part of the deal.”

Farage’s plan envisages that five deportation flights would be chartered every day. An RAF Voyager would be on reserve if needed.

An RAF Voyager at Brize Norton in Oxfordshire

ANDREW MATTHEWS/PA

The government, he says, would take a “carrot and stick” approach with a six-month voluntary returns scheme. People would be able to “deport themselves” using an app and be given £2,500 to leave the country. Their flights would be paid for.

“The carrot is very, very clear,” he says. “If you’re here illegally, we’re coming for you. We will remove you. But what we can do is help you go back to where you came from, put two and a half thousand quid in your pocket, not charge you an airfare to go. And I think quite a few might take that option.”

Farage claims the policy will cost £10 billion over five years. But can those figures be right? Is there not a risk that building additional migration detention centres alone could swallow up the bulk of that money, never mind deals with other countries, the cost of charter flights and building accommodation in overseas territories?

Reform insists the plan is fully costed. It says the policy will save £7 billion over five years compared with the existing cost of the asylum system.

He suggests the plan will stop the boats in as little as two weeks, highlighting the impact of a hardline policy introduced by the former prime minister Tony Abbott in Australia. “He towed them back to Indonesia,” Farage says. “If people coming know they’ll be detained, if they know they’ll be deported, they’ll stop coming very very quickly.”

In the US, President Trump declared a national emergency and deployed troops en masse to the Mexican border. Thousands of people had their settled status rescinded and police detained others. The policy led to the number of illegal crossings from Mexico collapsing.

Troops at the Mexican border during President Trump’s second week of office in February

ZUMA/THE MEGA AGENCY

“A lot of this [the costings] is difficult to tell because you don’t know what the effect of doing it in the first place is going to be,” he admits. “The Tories thought Rwanda would be dramatic [as a deterrent], and it would have been if they’d been allowed to do it under ECHR and British judges. So estimating some of this is difficult, isn’t it?

“We’ve got guesstimates of what it would cost for each individual to be rounded up and deported, which is why the voluntary option would be a lot cheaper for everybody.”

Farage adds: “The illegal migrant crisis is costing £7 billion a year. But the truth is that doesn’t even get close to what it’s really costing us, what it’s costing the NHS.

“The fact they have to provide free healthcare. The fact that NHS dentists have to be on hand. The police time for those that commit wrongs.

“You know, we are talking here about a massive, massive financial problem, far bigger than we’re saying in this document, far bigger than we’re saying. And our hope would be that it would actually suit the NHS to co-operate with us on this.”

Reform will also mount a crackdown on the black economy. It says it will require the NHS and other public bodies to provide information so illegal immigrants can be tracked down and detained.

The timing of Farage’s announcement is deliberate. Kemi Badenoch, the Tory leader, is expected to set out her plans to leave the European Convention on Human Rights at the Conservative Party conference. Farage is dismissive.

Kemi Badenoch in Essex this month

STEFAN ROUSSEAU/PA

“Who? No one knows who she is,” he says. “No one. I mean, where’s the credibility? Do you think they’ll go as far as these? It’ll be the usual Tory fudge. They’re a broad church with no religion.”

The government’s asylum policy, in the meantime, is in turmoil. Last week a judge granted an injunction that will lead to the closure of a hotel in Epping housing asylum seekers that has been the site of repeated protests.

Dozens of protests are expected outside asylum hotels across the country this weekend as other local authorities consider applying for similar injunctions.

Farage warns there will be social unrest unless they close. “I know the argument is that they’ll move them into HMOs or they’ll do whatever they’ll do. But I do think the migrant hotels are a symbol of all that is wrong, all that is unfair. And, increasingly, it’s a big security risk.”

Farage samples the wares in a craft ale sale in his constituency

TIMES PHOTOGRAPHER RICHARD POHLE

With that Farage is off for a visit to a craft ale and beer festival nearby, where he lives up to his cigarette-smoking, beer-drinking caricature.

“There are some mornings I wake up and think I must be completely, completely off my head. But that never lasts more than an hour or two because the buzz and the excitement of building something, of moving forwards. So no, I mean, basically, basically I’m still pretty energised.”

[Vesper 30,216]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-paradox-of-tolerance-why-free-speech-is-essential-to-combat-extremism-in-britain

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/689b54edeb300a86d83d0c46/CE01_Peter_DLima_Claire_McGuiggan.pdf