🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Patrick Bamford

[didierforever 7,349]

Bogus is a strong word to use when our starting goalkeeper last season benched a club veteran and a 18 year old is being given serious consideration as one of our attacking midfield options over a guy that cost 26m only 6 months ago; both by a manager who has a reputation for doing things that are just the opposite. Things are looking up and I'm hopeful.

courtois is an exception. he is one of the best GKs in the world. if those are the standards we are setting for an loanees and mainly academy/youth products, we may as well call it BOGUS.

bamford is never ever going to be one of the best strikers in the world. are we willing to take a chance on champioship's player of the season. NO.

as for traore, i would let the number of minutes he gets on the pitch do the talking rather than the 6th AM spot that he has got.

[Stats 7,145]

Bogus is a strong word to use when our starting goalkeeper last season benched a club veteran and a 18 year old is being given serious consideration as one of our attacking midfield options over a guy that cost 26m only 6 months ago; both by a manager who has a reputation for doing things that are just the opposite. Things are looking up and I'm hopeful.

You do realise Traore turns 20 in less than 2 months? I would like him to be part of the squad but even if he does perform in pre-season, it does by no means guarantee he will stay here. He still may go out on loan and we are just finding a suitable team for him. If you judged it on pre-season, Boga would have been in the squad or played some minutes this season but he did not. When he played with us in pre-season last season he was outstanding imo. Traore obviously has played first team football in Holland and has a lot of qualities but I have seen it before when youngsters impress in pre-season then are no where to be found when the big thing starts and end up staying with the reserves or going out on loan. I hope Traore is given a chance but just reminding people not to be too optimistic.

[Siwy_CFC 7]

Mourinho speaks a lot about young players in last time. I think Abramovich built a big team and now he want to make the team bigger, team where is a lot homegrowns in squad, team which creates his own players. Thats why he spends a lot of money on development squads and this is reason why we look for new stadium. I think if Bamford will do well on loan he may take a chance in Chelsea - thats why we offer him a new contract.

[Madmax 9,219]

courtois is an exception. he is one of the best GKs in the world. if those are the standards we are setting for an loanees and mainly academy/youth products, we may as well call it BOGUS.

bamford is never ever going to be one of the best strikers in the world. are we willing to take a chance on champioship's player of the season. NO.

as for traore, i would let the number of minutes he gets on the pitch do the talking rather than the 6th AM spot that he has got.

1. So was Cech, and yet he was benched. Not to mention the rapport he enjoyed with Mourinho. Maybe you should give the boss some credit.

2. I like Bamford like most but Championship POTY is really no big deal for a club the size of Chelsea. Not to mention, a year as Palace's main man (or thereabouts) will be better for him and us than him as our third choice. Plus Falcao's here only for a short while, making me think there's a correlation there.

3. It's actually the 4th spot, since Rob Beasley specifically mentioned us willing to part with one or both of Moses and Cuadrado in the unlikely event of being interested in Pedro. Minutes on the pitch we'll see about, I agree.

But like I said, I'm hopeful. Stuff about Sturridge (while still hurtful) and Lukaku is in the past. Besides, which other players did have a consistently good season at a decent level last year or the year before that did not get a fair chance? Pasalic at Elche and that's about it unless I'm missing out on someone glaring.

[Madmax 9,219]

You do realise Traore turns 20 in less than 2 months? I would like him to be part of the squad but even if he does perform in pre-season, it does by no means guarantee he will stay here. He still may go out on loan and we are just finding a suitable team for him. If you judged it on pre-season, Boga would have been in the squad or played some minutes this season but he did not. When he played with us in pre-season last season he was outstanding imo. Traore obviously has played first team football in Holland and has a lot of qualities but I have seen it before when youngsters impress in pre-season then are no where to be found when the big thing starts and end up staying with the reserves or going out on loan. I hope Traore is given a chance but just reminding people not to be too optimistic.

Genuinely remembered it as 18 for some reason, but still the point stands. Not judging it on pre-season at all, more on -

1. The Vitesse manager saying we wanted to keep him and us confirming that by getting a WP sorted

2. Mourinho specifically mentioning him in our group of AM options

3. Beasley saying we'd part with either Moses or Cuadrado or both in case we wanted Pedro.

Of course walking the talk will be what I'll look out for.

[didierforever 7,349]

1. So was Cech, and yet he was benched. Not to mention the rapport he enjoyed with Mourinho. Maybe you should give the boss some credit.

2. I like Bamford like most but Championship POTY is really no big deal for a club the size of Chelsea. Not to mention, a year as Palace's main man (or thereabouts) will be better for him and us as our third choice. Plus Falcao's here only for a short while, making me think there's a correlation there.

3. It's actually the 4th spot, since Rob Beasley specifically mentioned us willing to part with one or both of Moses and Cuadrado in the unlikely event of being interested in Pedro. Minutes on the pitch we'll see about, I agree.

But like I said, I'm hopeful. Stuff about Sturridge (while still hurtful) and Lukaku is in the past. Besides, which other players did have a consistently good season at a decent level last year or the year before that did not get a fair chance? Pasalic at Elche and that's about it unless I'm missing out on someone glaring.

1. what was the alternative? sell a 22 year old WC GK, to keep a 33 year old WC GK who may very well start to decline? keeping courtois was sensible. i am sorry, but if our baord and jose get the credit for THAT then things are really as bad, are not they.

2. how will it be better? have not we already been there and done that? lukaku is the example here. what changed? or would change? fair enough on the falcao point though.

3. he mentioned that chelsea will BUY pedro if moses and/or cuadrado leave. at max traore will be our 5th choice AM (something that we did not have last season and were quite comfortable). like i said, i would let the number of minutes traore gets do the talking.

how many loanees did u expect to have a breakthrough season. except for bamford, chalobah, mvg, pasalic did any other loanee even have a chance for "the next year".

[Madmax 9,219]

1. what was the alternative? sell a 22 year old WC GK, to keep a 33 year old WC GK who may very well start to decline? keeping courtois was sensible. i am sorry, but if our baord and jose get the credit for THAT then things are really as bad, are not they.

2. how will it be better? have not we already been there and done that? lukaku is the example here. what changed? or would change? fair enough on the falcao point though.

3. he mentioned that chelsea will BUY pedro if moses and/or cuadrado leave. at max traore will be our 5th choice AM (something that we did not have last season and were quite comfortable). like i said, i would let the number of minutes traore gets do the talking.

how many loanees did u expect to have a breakthrough season. except for bamford, chalobah, mvg, pasalic did any other loanee even have a chance for "the next year".

1. If you look back through the Courtois/ Cech thread from this time last season, you'd come across a lot of apprehension about what will happen, followed by relief when the decision was made. Clearly, it was not as cut and dried as it seems now.

2. In my books it was Lukaku who ran away from the chance to fight for a place. He made the squad and then bailed because Eto'o showed up .. but it's been repeatedly discussed to death already so no point going on about it. Another example you'd come up with is Sturridge (which is fair enough and one that still rankles). What has changed is that RDM won't manage us again and that Bamford is not a motormouth with an inflated opinion of himself.

3. Even so, silence on Traore who was specifically mentioned by Mourinho, while saying we tried for Pedro (yes he said that earlier) and laying out the names that would make way for him, all adds up afaic. But agree on the minutes part.

I didn't expect MVG or Pasalic, no. Chalobah yes because that's what he said when he arrived here but then he had unsuccessful loans and fell away so there's that. I did hope Bamford would have an outside chance but over time I realise the current course of action is probably better.

[didierforever 7,349]

1. If you look back through the Courtois/ Cech thread from this time last season, you'd come across a lot of apprehension about what will happen, followed by relief when the decision was made. Clearly, it was not as cut and dried as it seems now.

2. In my books it was Lukaku who ran away from the chance to fight for a place. He made the squad and then bailed because Eto'o showed up .. but it's been repeatedly discussed to death already so no point going on about it. Another example you'd come up with is Sturridge (which is fair enough and one that still rankles). What has changed is that RDM won't manage us again and that Bamford is not a motormouth with an inflated opinion of himself.

3. Even so, silence on Traore who was specifically mentioned by Mourinho, while saying we tried for Pedro (yes he said that earlier) and laying out the names that would make way for him, all adds up afaic. But agree on the minutes part.

I didn't expect MVG or Pasalic, no. Chalobah yes because that's what he said when he arrived here but then he had unsuccessful loans and fell away so there's that. I did hope Bamford would have an outside chance but over time I realise the current course of action is probably better.

1. it was not clear cut because of the emotional bond on here. but logically there was no other way to go. like u said "followed by relief" cos most of us and anyone supporting chelsea would have wanted that to happen to continue our development.

2. like u said, we can go over it all again. i can only guess what lukaku might have had to say seeing a 4th striker in etoo, before a WC year with benteke as his competition. so we ll literally be going in a circle here. as for sturridge, if he can do the walk as well as the talk, i dont have a problem.

my point was there are anyways very few loanees out of our 27 loaned out players which have a "real" chance of making it to the first team. players like davila, joao rodriquez, cuevas, perica etc etc are barely another name. out of all our loanees, these 4 along with thorgan would have stood out. thorgan had a good season and was sold, bamford had a good season - loaned again. chalobah - still undecided. pasalic - had a brilliant loan and loaned again. so it makes you wonder, IF we even want to use our loan players.

[Madmax 9,219]

my point was there are anyways very few loanees out of our 27 loaned out players which have a "real" chance of making it to the first team. players like davila, joao rodriquez, cuevas, perica etc etc are barely another name. out of all our loanees, these 4 along with thorgan would have stood out. thorgan had a good season and was sold, bamford had a good season - loaned again. chalobah - still undecided. pasalic - had a brilliant loan and loaned again. so it makes you wonder, IF we even want to use our loan players.

Precisely, since Mourinho has come in there have been very few players who had an excellent season out on loan at a good level of competition who then were overlooked. I didn't really keep up with Thorgan's time in Gladbach so I don't have an opinion either way. Bamford, like I said, was good in the Championship but let's face it, he has things to prove which I hope he will at Palace. Chalobah was earmarked but Mourinho reneged. Pasalic is one that has a case but with RLC being promised a role it was always unlikely. Moses had a decent spell and he's apparently being retained. MvG was again plagued by injuries but grew into it at Milan.

Edit - I forgot Salah, lol. I'd take him over Quedrado.

[didierforever 7,349]

Precisely, since Mourinho has come in there have been very few players who had an excellent season out on loan at a good level of competition who then were overlooked. I didn't really keep up with Thorgan's time in Gladbach so I don't have an opinion either way. Bamford, like I said, was good in the Championship but let's face it, he has things to prove which I hope he will at Palace. Chalobah was earmarked but Mourinho reneged. Pasalic is one that has a case but with RLC being promised a role it was always unlikely. Moses had a decent spell and he's apparently being retained. MvG was again plagued by injuries but grew into it at Milan.

Edit - I forgot Salah, lol. I'd take him over Quedrado.

i think this is where we differ a lot.

3/4 players having a good season is a LOT. you cant expect kids to have break through seasons so easily.

[Madmax 9,219]

i think this is where we differ a lot.

3/4 players having a good season is a LOT. you cant expect kids to have break through seasons so easily.

Good seasons but where is the crux of my argument. We cannot make someone from the Championship our third choice striker. That leaves Pasalic who I said has a case and MvG + Salah who played in below top tier teams in a weak league.

[coolhead23 1,147]

@Madmax (sorry cant do a quote)

"We cannot make someone from the Championship out third Striker"

Bamford was the best player in the Championship and not just any striker ... The place he should have got is that of the third striker because he deserves it ... instead we get a striker who probably has past his prime and had a bad season ... What is the sense in that? We talk about youth and then we go back ...

Other thing that a lot of us keep stating ... player has to prove to get into the 11 ... What else is there to be proved from Bamford ... I feel he was very lucky that he atleast got a chance to showcase his talent which lot of others haven't ... and yes he taken it with both hands ... Now he is loaned to Crystal Palace, what happens if the loan goes like that of Josh... The momentum is gone and suddenly no ones talking abt it ... Josh is a classic example ...

Food for thought: Why is it that RLC is not out on loan while the likes of Ake, Bamford, Chalaboh, Kalas need to undergo loan spell and prove themselves.

That my 2 cents on this entire integrating youth thing ... And like you mentioned that u were hopeful, same with me but with every passing season that is just sailing away ...

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

no. people are still moaning because our loan system is BOGUS. nothing goes on merit.it just a business scheme for profit and a way around FFP.

anyone thinking that bamford would get a chance next season on his performances at palace is as deluded and misguided as i have been for the past 4-5 years since we started this.

I have to say i agree 100% with this. Surely these kids and there agents know that as soon as you sign for Chelsea there's the probability that you'll never kick a ball for us. It must be disheartening to have a huge life changing deal to play with a massive club when in reality you'll be spending it at a run of the mill Dutch club.

[Madmax 9,219]

@Madmax (sorry cant do a quote)

"We cannot make someone from the Championship out third Striker"

Bamford was the best player in the Championship and not just any striker ... The place he should have got is that of the third striker because he deserves it ... instead we get a striker who probably has past his prime and had a bad season ... What is the sense in that? We talk about youth and then we go back ...

Other thing that a lot of us keep stating ... player has to prove to get into the 11 ... What else is there to be proved from Bamford ... I feel he was very lucky that he atleast got a chance to showcase his talent which lot of others haven't ... and yes he taken it with both hands ... Now he is loaned to Crystal Palace, what happens if the loan goes like that of Josh... The momentum is gone and suddenly no ones talking abt it ... Josh is a classic example ...

Food for thought: Why is it that RLC is not out on loan while the likes of Ake, Bamford, Chalaboh, Kalas need to undergo loan spell and prove themselves.

That my 2 cents on this entire integrating youth thing ... And like you mentioned that u were hopeful, same with me but with every passing season that is just sailing away ...

You need to ask yourself how much Bamford would play as third striker. I know Drogba got quite a few games but will we see another season of Costa and Remy being injured so much? I'm not sure if Palace is the right team for him since he does have a lot of competition there but presumably something's been worked out because the club it seems does see something in him. Had we signed a striker permanently I'd be concerned too but Falcao is here for the short term.

[coolhead23 1,147]

I don't disagree with u ... It is risk and maybe a huge one ...

But then again isn't it better that he be part of the team which is managed by one of best in the world and when he get a chance (which he will) he can rise to occasion ... maybe and just maybe if he performs like he has done elsewhere he could very well be a second striker next season ... I would rather have him here and give him chances 20-25% game time in terms of dead rubbers & subs than send him to place where he is not considered as their own ... Builds confidence on the youth .. and more important the progress should be gradual which I don't think currently is ...

[Unionjack 7,531]

Food for thought: Why is it that RLC is not out on loan while the likes of Ake, Bamford, Chalaboh, Kalas need to undergo loan spell and prove themselves

I agree mate. RLC seems to be one of Mous personal projects just like Falcao. People are jumping on the RLC hype train and all the lad has played is a few minutes. Hes not getting any experience (opposite to Bamfordino) trotting out for 8 minutes and watching the game from the bench. He would have done himaself and us much more good getting top class playing time elsewhere and trying again next season. Or is it just because hes HG hes with us and easy to control as a kid?

I have to say i agree 100% with this. Surely these kids and there agents know that as soon as you sign for Chelsea there's the probability that you'll never kick a ball for us. It must be disheartening to have a huge life changing deal to play with a massive club when in reality you'll be spending it at a run of the mill Dutch club.

Im sorry to say bruv I'm with you.

IF I was a young player full of prospect and skills unless I was promised a 1st team spot there wouldnt be a chance on earth I would sign for us.I know we as a club have found that its possible to make a few quid on the loanagoround IF they get media attention but the likelyhood of the playing in Chelsea blue is very limited.

We would have much better chances to keep them for their 1st year, give them a FAIR go, and see how it went then.

Ive been trying to think of young players we have brought in, played them for years and made money on their sales that way.

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

no. people are still moaning because our loan system is BOGUS. nothing goes on merit.it just a business scheme for profit and a way around FFP.

anyone thinking that bamford would get a chance next season on his performances at palace is as deluded and misguided as i have been for the past 4-5 years since we started this.

Who realistically thinks Chelsea are going to use a player who was loaned out to Crystal Palace next season though honestly? Anyone who thinks that is a bit deluded. Why would we weaken our squad, not signing Falcao to use a Championship player? Because hes English and came through our academy (or was bought and put into our academy)??? Bullshit.

People are always complaining about our loan system but without it and the funds we make through selling players from it would we have been able to have signed all of these guys we've brought in in recent times like Matic, Costa, Fabregas and the rest, without having to face any sanctions?

Probably not.

I think even if we don't promote many youth players or guys we buy at 17 or 18 from other clubs, we are making A LOT of money for them and that is in my eyes if you look at it, is just as good for Chelsea as it is bringing players through business wise, as we can still invest a lot and not have to worry about fines or reduced 25 man squads in Europe etc etc linked with FFP.

Football is a sport but it also a business and always has been. Also since Roman has been here how many players have we sold that have gone on to have proved us wrong for selling them as well as being successful with their next club? Robben is the only one I can think of who was genuinely worth keeping and Ballack although he was released not sold. Sturridge and De Bruyne weren't worth keeping here and although they've done well in other teams how many titles have they won? Lukaku the same? How much money did we get for them? Maybe 65M or close enough combined...

[didierforever 7,349]

Who realistically thinks Chelsea are going to use a player who was loaned out to Crystal Palace next season though honestly? Anyone who thinks that is a bit deluded, because realistically he will probably go on loan again after this season and maybe even the one after too depending how he does or sold unless he is remarkable and improves into a top 4/title challenging team level player.

I don't think we should weaken our squad to incorporate championship level players to be honest and anyone expecting we would use Bamford this year before he was loaned out really had to be dreaming.

So basically you just agreed to evrything I said with a angry mean tone to it. And if we are not going to use champiomships player of the season, then as I said, our loan system is BOGUS.

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

So basically you just agreed to evrything I said with a angry mean tone to it. And if we are not going to use champiomships player of the season, then as I said, our loan system is BOGUS.

Yes I did but I'm just trying to come across and say ANYONE who is realistically expecting us to use Championship players in a squad where we are trying to win the CL, the league and domestic cups is having a laugh. Theres no point giving him a chance because if he was good enough he'd of spent a season already in the PL on loan. There is a decent progression in his development hes gone from League 1 to the Championship and now hes going to hopefully be a regular in the PL in a team that will be comfortable in terms of safety. No point saying our system is bogus because guys are coming through that are at a high standard now after a few loans as well so we are definitely making profit/having ready made players if we keep them. Thats why I don't see why its so bogus because if we can get someone for 6M and develop him and sell him for 19M as hes not regularly playing here/not impressed the coach or whatever then why not? 13M profit straight up...

[didierforever 7,349]

Yes I did but I'm just trying to come across and say ANYONE who is realistically expecting us to use Championship players in a squad where we are trying to win the CL, the league and domestic cups is having a laugh. Theres no point giving him a chance because if he was good enough he'd of spent a season already in the PL on loan. There is a decent progression in his development hes gone from League 1 to the Championship and now hes going to hopefully be a regular in the PL in a team that will be comfortable in terms of safety. No point saying our system is bogus because guys are coming through that are at a high standard now after a few loans as well so we are definitely making profit/having ready made players if we keep them. Thats why I don't see why its so bogus because if we can get someone for 6M and develop him and sell him for 19M as hes not regularly playing here/not impressed the coach or whatever then why not? 13M profit straight up...

so the championship player of the (not just ANY PLAYER in championship) is not good enough to be our 3rd striker!!! seriously. morgan schneiderlein was apparently a league 1 or league 2 player some years ago, right now, each of us would want him in our team.

also, lets look at it this way. kdb , bought for 6, sold for 17. profit of 11mil. chelsea buys one creative player in cesc for 30mil. chelsea fans currently are cribbing for some quality creative signing which should cost us 20mil. if we dont make that signing, i dont see us winning cl (at max a semi) and may even lose PL. so theres that 20mil difference again. so as i see it, we might have made a profit for the sake of the numbers. but in reality, we are making losses by not using them for the club's benefit.