Messi: not just great, but the best?

[robdog 2,084]

Nice picture of the 3 legends right there

No need to mention zidane, my point about how messi is the best and why i think that was clear.

Zidane is an all time great, but he ranks differently, he certainly is one of the greatest midfielders ever though. Modern enough for me to say that as well.

Overall i think that all the greats in football are just that, GREATS, LEGENDS, but footballers keep getting better and better.

I'd make a bet pele wouldnt catch up to cr7 nowadays, atleast a carbon copy of pele anyways.Those players had natural ability though, in a hypothetical way i wonder how the past greats would adapt now.

Sneijder had a good part in the world cup but what i am trying to get that is that some over rate his part in it.

Messi rocked the champions league and la liga as the pichichi (or actually i think it was forlan who was la liga pichichi(., and just barely lost out on champions league trophy due to a COLLECTIVE effort from inter milan.

As i said before, there's a great case for sneijder deserving to win it, but messi is also deserving.

Seriously?? Are you sure you are a RM fan?? Ok whatever makes you sleep at night. I still believe Sneijder should have gotten it. Agree to disagree.

[Zinedine Iniesco 172]

Seriously?? Are you sure you are a RM fan?? Ok whatever makes you sleep at night. I still believe Sneijder should have gotten it. Agree to disagree.

Messi is a great footballer, and the 09/10 balon d or will forever be debatable, but its case closed.

Im open minded enough to accept and recognize a good player when i see one.

My current favorite non real madrid player at the moment is actually andres iniesta, if i was a player i'd love to play like he does.

My favorite player EVER is Zidane by the way, so i wont lose any respect to him either.

[capriccioso 2,545]

I personally think that he probably is the greatest player up to this point.

What he does with the ball, no body else in history has been capable to do so. And he is better than all of the legends like Pele, Maradona, Di Stefano, Puskas, because he is modern, he outpaces them in every way. Main reason that many tag it as unfair to compare different eras is because of the different guidelines, but the newer gets better in a certain context, messi has scored almost 70 goals the past season, he is for me the best player i've seen.

Considering many contexts anyways.

No one has the numbers, or abilities that he has.

Cr7 is a different kind of player, but id still rather have him on a modern team than di stefano or pele, because of different eras.

Like in tennis, there are guys like borg who historically speaking are mindfudging good, but when he tried to comeback in the 90's he got owned. You can only compare history, at a certain point.

Id digg more into it though, i wonder just how well di stefano or pele or maradona would adapt to the modern game. Messi still outclasses them though. I think i make my point clear, as time passes the footballer gets better considering an overall perspective. Madrid 1955-1960 would get thrashed by modern day madrid.

Quite comfortably, they'd make the transition with ease. Better diet, half time team talks actually involving replenishing energy and making tactical changes instead of a cigarette and a shot of whisky, being able to have a injured/tired team mate substituted so their poor performance doesn't cost the team and yourself; and defenders that got punished for fouls via yellow cards, which they didn't have in the 50s and 60s- you only got sent off if you made an absolute shocker of a leg breaking tackle, you could hard foul as much as you liked and still not be sent off . Also playing with far better footwear, clothing that cools you down and a ball that's easier to manoeuver; and hours upon hours of video footage so you can isolate down to a pinpoint the weaknesses of the opposition. Pele had none of that. If Pele played in today's age he'd have 3000 goals, purely because his technical skills shit on everyone today and he'd get access to all those advantages. Messi grew up in a purpose built youth academy designed to bring the best out of him with the very best in nutrition, medication and coaching available to him, Pele grew up kicking a ball made out of socks tied up with a rubber band, smoking cigarettes.

Watch footage of Maradona at the World Cup 2010, he was dicking about in training taking free kicks from 30 metres out. Every single one went straight into the net, while most of today's professional peloton, including Messi, got mindfucked by the Jabulani. You say that Messi is the greatest dribbler/whatever of all time, yet you ignore that there have been far superior dribblers from his own country, like Maradona. In any case Garrincha would have outdribbled them with a blindfold on, Maradona isn't even the best dribbler of all time and yet Messi is compared to him.

Messi may have scored 70 once, Pele scored 100 and above twice. He broke the 70 mark 4 times and the 50 mark 14 times. Take out those 'friendlies' (which were actually very serious games, not like how Chelsea jet off to Asia and play timewasters like Kitchee) and he still has 760 goals in 822 appearances. There is a massive difference between best of their generation (Messi) and the best of all time (Pele). Messi needs to get to about 1700-2000 goals to even equal Pele as he has all these advantages.

Your tennis argument is irrelevant, first of all, it's a different sport, second of all he made a comeback when age had already sapped him of his physical attributes. If he had been born in the 70s and played in the 90s he'd have done as well as he did in his prime.

[Spike 12,049]

Fuck Pele, the loudmouth old man who keeps jabbering on about shit nobody cares about. Always comparing him and the newest fucking Brazillain sensation, harping on about how Maradona is terrible and Messi can't touch him. He says he won three world cups, fuck that, he showed up to the 1962 World Cup and got a winners medal. That is Garrincha's and Vava's praise you are soaking up there, son. People always drool about how many goals Pele scored, over 1000 was it? I bet my every ounce of my English blood that Lev Yashin stopped more goals than Pele scored. Fuck Maradona, the overweight, cocaine snorting fuck. Diego wouldn't have common sense of you could buy it in little plastic bags. I feel sorry for every kid that looked up to Maradona. You idol was a cheating, drug addict that doesn't have any sort of moral compass or even the slightest hint of sportsmanship. Fuck Lionel Messi, the tiny little angel that does no wrong. Blasting goddamn footballs into people's faces. The little hypocrite and best player in the world can't even lead a stacked Argentina team to a Copa America title. Scores 73 goals in a season and still lose the fucking Champions League and La Liga. Messi scores against every fucking club in the world but when he sees the great blue lion Chelsea, he becomes paralyzed with fear. Fuck Cristiano Ronaldo, with his greased up pommenade hair. Crys when misses penalties, cries when he loses and even cries when he fucking wins. What is this shit? America's Next fucking Model? CR7 still doesn't know how to pass the ball and I feel sorry for kid that has to put up with a Ronaldo wannabe at school that shoots every fucking time he touches the ball. Fuck these overrated divas that hog all the glory that every player that they work with helped them achieve.

[Justin_3d 1,140]

Messi named Observatory big-5 league player of the season

http://www.football-observatory.com/Messi-named-Football-Observatory

[Justin_3d 1,140]

BTW for those saying Messi does not appear in big games:

Final CL 2011, Manchester 1 - Barça 1, Messi makes the 2 to 1.

Club world cup 2010, Messi scores in the extra time.

Supercopa 2010, away leg Sevilla leads by 3 to 1 , return leg Messi resolves the game with 3 goals and wins the cup.

Supercopa 2011 Barça 1-Madrid 1, Messi makes the 2 to 1, later at minute 86 Madrid scores for a 2 a 2, and the end Messi scores the winner for a 3 to 2.

And the other finals where won with a superiority, with the help of Messi.

So I don't see the argument that he gets loss in big games.

[Zinedine Iniesco 172]

Quite comfortably, they'd make the transition with ease. Better diet, half time team talks actually involving replenishing energy and making tactical changes instead of a cigarette and a shot of whisky, being able to have a injured/tired team mate substituted so their poor performance doesn't cost the team and yourself; and defenders that got punished for fouls via yellow cards, which they didn't have in the 50s and 60s- you only got sent off if you made an absolute shocker of a leg breaking tackle, you could hard foul as much as you liked and still not be sent off . Also playing with far better footwear, clothing that cools you down and a ball that's easier to manoeuver; and hours upon hours of video footage so you can isolate down to a pinpoint the weaknesses of the opposition. Pele had none of that. If Pele played in today's age he'd have 3000 goals, purely because his technical skills shit on everyone today and he'd get access to all those advantages. Messi grew up in a purpose built youth academy designed to bring the best out of him with the very best in nutrition, medication and coaching available to him, Pele grew up kicking a ball made out of socks tied up with a rubber band, smoking cigarettes.

Watch footage of Maradona at the World Cup 2010, he was dicking about in training taking free kicks from 30 metres out. Every single one went straight into the net, while most of today's professional peloton, including Messi, got mindfucked by the Jabulani. You say that Messi is the greatest dribbler/whatever of all time, yet you ignore that there have been far superior dribblers from his own country, like Maradona. In any case Garrincha would have outdribbled them with a blindfold on, Maradona isn't even the best dribbler of all time and yet Messi is compared to him.

Messi may have scored 70 once, Pele scored 100 and above twice. He broke the 70 mark 4 times and the 50 mark 14 times. Take out those 'friendlies' (which were actually very serious games, not like how Chelsea jet off to Asia and play timewasters like Kitchee) and he still has 760 goals in 822 appearances. There is a massive difference between best of their generation (Messi) and the best of all time (Pele). Messi needs to get to about 1700-2000 goals to even equal Pele as he has all these advantages.

Your tennis argument is irrelevant, first of all, it's a different sport, second of all he made a comeback when age had already sapped him of his physical attributes. If he had been born in the 70s and played in the 90s he'd have done as well as he did in his prime.

I could go over on how your perspective on the whole issue is a bit bleak and uneducated but i wont waste my time doing so.

The borg analogy makes sense if taken into the correct context. Yes he was past his prime, but he couldnt even make it into the top 1000's, the sport had left him, but you are far too narrow minded to try to make sense of it.

In the end i will re-iterate my point. It is good to identify a player and rank his importance and impact during his own time, to others, but when it comes to 1v1's on different generations, the new generations will win. We can all talk about how one can adapt to the modern game ( i found your hypothesis rather bleak and even uneducated to a certain degree) but the facts are there.

John Mcenroe, Borg, Lendl, playing the way they did in their prime, wouldnt touch today's stars, you could see it in the way they move and in the way they played, they used different technology, its almost apples and oranges. You could talk about how by pure talent they could adapt but thats hypothetical, im talking about reality, and the reality is that nadal would sweep any clay court player if just magically put in their.

Same with football, madrid 1955-1960 would get thrashed by a today's elite, and so would the players of the past. We could talk about adaption, but realistically comparing one player set at one point and the other at another, today's heroes win.

Pele is an arrogant joke, he was good, but its quite irrelevent to compare him to messi or cr7 for me, id bet my whole house down that, that exact same player would get banged hard by today's specimens, the comparison is reality.

Dont bring his goals into account, makes you look silly.

Nadal and Federer And Djokovic would trash Mcenroe,Lendl, Borg, Wilander

Messi, Cr7, thrash the 40 year old memories.

And i also bet a mansion that there is no possible reasonable or logical argument that you can make up to deny that. No one can, because its ( for some people) an inconvenient truth.

[Zinedine Iniesco 172]

And let me just say, that there is nothing wrong with maradona, or cr7, or pele, being arrogant.

In this world everything a person does is for self benefit, they might not care for being idols or figures for younger children to admire, and for societies' social values and morals to revere, or they might indeed, but as long as their happy with them selves then good for them, those who dont like it can either learn to understand it or keep moaning.

Pele and Maradona have acted like clowns and nothing else when it comes to talking about each other by the way. Pele says some funny sht sometimes, like "maradona can't score with his head, the one time he did, it was actually his hand". Guys are clowns, but whatever.

And as for messi, in this world no one will ever do anything BUT nitpick at something until they find something to complain about. Messi is top notch, and you try to give me an argument that doesn't sound stupid or childish to bring him down "big time".

Pele and Maradona both had great teams, and its harder nowadays to attempt to single handedly do something for your team but some just dont like to understand that football is a team sport. Argentina sucks badly, only good thing is the attack, and thats not enough when you have teams like germany and spain up top.

[Zinedine Iniesco 172]

Fuck Pele, the loudmouth old man who keeps jabbering on about shit nobody cares about. Always comparing him and the newest fucking Brazillain sensation, harping on about how Maradona is terrible and Messi can't touch him. He says he won three world cups, fuck that, he showed up to the 1962 World Cup and got a winners medal. That is Garrincha's and Vava's praise you are soaking up there, son. People always drool about how many goals Pele scored, over 1000 was it? I bet my every ounce of my English blood that Lev Yashin stopped more goals than Pele scored. Fuck Maradona, the overweight, cocaine snorting fuck. Diego wouldn't have common sense of you could buy it in little plastic bags. I feel sorry for every kid that looked up to Maradona. You idol was a cheating, drug addict that doesn't have any sort of moral compass or even the slightest hint of sportsmanship. Fuck Lionel Messi, the tiny little angel that does no wrong. Blasting goddamn footballs into people's faces. The little hypocrite and best player in the world can't even lead a stacked Argentina team to a Copa America title. Scores 73 goals in a season and still lose the fucking Champions League and La Liga. Messi scores against every fucking club in the world but when he sees the great blue lion Chelsea, he becomes paralyzed with fear. Fuck Cristiano Ronaldo, with his greased up pommenade hair. Crys when misses penalties, cries when he loses and even cries when he fucking wins. What is this shit? America's Next fucking Model? CR7 still doesn't know how to pass the ball and I feel sorry for kid that has to put up with a Ronaldo wannabe at school that shoots every fucking time he touches the ball. Fuck these overrated divas that hog all the glory that every player that they work with helped them achieve.

I liked what you said about pele, but apart from that you sound a bit angered and ridiculous, or better said "over the top".

You state some "truth", but there is a truth for everyone, no one is perfect.

[capriccioso 2,545]

There is empirical evidence supporting me, that shows the vast regression in technical ability over the decades. Before the 2006 World Cup there was a documentary, part of which involved an experiment involving Hamburg first team players- including Rafael van der Vaart- doing some basic ball control tricks; first with modern equipment, then with historical. Needless to say, they were as incompetent with old equipment to the extent where you start to wonder if a below-average player from the 60s would have shown them a thing or two.

By comparison, Diego Maradona mastered the Jabulani in about 30 seconds.

I have no doubt that if it were possible to restore their physical prime and give them the same treatment from youth as today's stars, yesterdays heroes would comfortably outshine them.

[Spike 12,049]

I liked what you said about pele, but apart from that you sound a bit angered and ridiculous, or better said "over the top".

You state some "truth", but there is a truth for everyone, no one is perfect.

It's a rant, don't take it too seriously. I didn't even proof read the damn thing.

[capriccioso 2,545]

Fuck Pele, the loudmouth old man who keeps jabbering on about shit nobody cares about. Always comparing him and the newest fucking Brazillain sensation, harping on about how Maradona is terrible and Messi can't touch him. He says he won three world cups, fuck that, he showed up to the 1962 World Cup and got a winners medal. That is Garrincha's and Vava's praise you are soaking up there, son. People always drool about how many goals Pele scored, over 1000 was it? I bet my every ounce of my English blood that Lev Yashin stopped more goals than Pele scored. Fuck Maradona, the overweight, cocaine snorting fuck. Diego wouldn't have common sense of you could buy it in little plastic bags. I feel sorry for every kid that looked up to Maradona. You idol was a cheating, drug addict that doesn't have any sort of moral compass or even the slightest hint of sportsmanship. Fuck Lionel Messi, the tiny little angel that does no wrong. Blasting goddamn footballs into people's faces. The little hypocrite and best player in the world can't even lead a stacked Argentina team to a Copa America title. Scores 73 goals in a season and still lose the fucking Champions League and La Liga. Messi scores against every fucking club in the world but when he sees the great blue lion Chelsea, he becomes paralyzed with fear. Fuck Cristiano Ronaldo, with his greased up pommenade hair. Crys when misses penalties, cries when he loses and even cries when he fucking wins. What is this shit? America's Next fucking Model? CR7 still doesn't know how to pass the ball and I feel sorry for kid that has to put up with a Ronaldo wannabe at school that shoots every fucking time he touches the ball. Fuck these overrated divas that hog all the glory that every player that they work with helped them achieve.

So... I guess.. according to you the greatest player of all time is Peter Osgood?

[Spike 12,049]

So... I guess.. according to you the greatest player of all time is Peter Osgood?

Franz Beckenbauer

Giacinto Facchetti

Johan Cruyff

Zinedine Zidane

Enzo Francescoli

That is my shortlist.

[capriccioso 2,545]

Franz Beckenbauer

Giacinto Facchetti

Johan Cruyff

Zinedine Zidane

Enzo Francescoli

That is my shortlist.

Well , here's mine:

1. Salomon Kalou

2. Salomon Kalou's right foot

3. Salomon Kalou's left foot

4. Salomon Kalou's forehead

5. Bonaventure Kalou

More seriously:

Pele, Maradona, Eusebio, Zidane, Cafu.

[Spike 12,049]

Well , here's mine:

1. Salomon Kalou

2. Salomon Kalou's right foot

3. Salomon Kalou's left foot

4. Salomon Kalou's forehead

5. Bonaventure Kalou

It's getting old.

[capriccioso 2,545]

It's getting old.

Y U NO quote edited post?

[Justin_3d 1,140]

Messi 2 goals against Brazil already.

Where is Robdog to talk trash about Messi doing nothing in nationals?

[Justin_3d 1,140]

Messi, Messi, Messi!

The best in the world!