🇪🇸 Juan Mata

[Stingray 9,441]

So you do think preferential treatment is ok for stars. The vid was about Mou teaching his philosophy to other trainers ( it is repeated in articles as well) the core concept is NO ego's, no preferential treatment (which does NOT mean you cant have a personalised way of handling individuals) the group always comes first.

Yes i believe that was genuine.

[robsblubot 3,595]

Mata can be a brilliant attacking midfielder and at the same time not help at all when defending. And it's not like he could do it if the manager asked him to, he just doesn't have the tools for the job (not even work rate is there). That's a deficiency in Mata's game, and that's the difference between him and say Iniesta, or before them a Zidane who are/were far more complete players.

Now, like you all say, it's up to the Manager to find out how to accommodate his players with their virtues as well as their deficiencies.

However, I am NOT optimistic we can, or Mourinho can, accommodate both Hazard and Mata (plus a striker) because they are both pretty fucking horrible at defending. Yes, they are amazing attacking players, but that doesn't help us much when we don't have the football--say when we play City.

It's wishful thinking when ppl say that if we get this or that player to replace Mikel, all our midfield problems will be solved. I'm not a fan of mIkel because I just don't see much quality in his game, especially the so important finesse (the final/decisive touch). But replacing him won't solve the lack of defending, in numbers, that we sometimes suffer from.

[BleedsBlue 1,549]

10m+Mata or Luiz for Rooney really made me LOL.Its so cute to see United trying to play mind games with Jose.

[Barbara 15,149]

So you do think preferential treatment is ok for stars. The vid was about Mou teaching his philosophy to other trainers ( it is repeated in articles as well) the core concept is NO ego's, no preferential treatment (which does NOT mean you cant have a personalised way of handling individuals) the group always comes first. Yes i believe that was genuine.

I believe part of that is genuine (what he says in those vids).

To look back at how he handled those two players in both teams and how he treated the rest, only a blind can't see there was a degree of special treatment. It is a fact, not an opinion... go see how many times both of them didn't start under Mourinho - except for physical issues. Take a lot at Ronaldo's tackling stats or better: watch their matches.

He won't ignore if they stop to work hard, if they're late to training, if they miss training, if they deliberately don't put effort in their matches. Of course he won't ignore that stuff, but sub par performances? Pffft... He overlooked both in ways he didn't with the rest of the team. And I can say that because I am a fan to both teams and I followed both teams closely in the years Mourinho was there - except RM last year because I was really sad about what they did to Mou there and the constant attacking on him bothered me and it was making me dislike RM and I won't allow a player, a coach or whoever to come between my love for the team, so I took a step back, ignored the media and Perez for the most part and watched less matches. It was saddening to watch what happened there and it's even more saddening to keep seeing what certain players are doing to that club. They fail to realize the club is bigger than them. They think the club is them currently and I can't with this shit, so I'm sort of ignoring some of the ridiculous stuff coming from Madrid now. But I'm sure about the special treatment both Wesley and Ronaldo received under Mourinho in the instances I talked about. So not only I'm telling you that he treats a certain type of players differently, but that I support that in the way he does that.

I also remember how he dealt with Balottelli (far from how he handled Cris and Wesley). I had so many laughs on those two while they were on Inter. funny - and tragic - stuff. Good times.

10m+Mata or Luiz for Rooney really made me LOL.Its so cute to see United trying to play mind games with Jose.

That was laughable especially for Mata. How does Rooney is worthy Mata + 10m? How? But then again, I'm far from being a Rooney fan.

[Stingray 9,441]

So you say yes but no. Warm but cold, you mean one thing and then switch again ... How fickle. Sorry im too old for that i guess. Lets agree to disagree.

[Barbara 15,149]

So you say yes but no. Warm but cold, you mean one thing and then switch again ... How fickle. Sorry im too old for that i guess. Lets agree to disagree.

I guess you're tired, not old

I never stated preferential treatment about everything. I kept repeating, putting in Italic and bold what I really meant. I said he treated Ronaldo and Wesley different from the rest when it came to what he demanded from them defensively and how he overlooked the slumps they had. I was so clear in all posts about that...

Then I made a point - because it seemed necessary to make you understand - about the things Mourinho didn't treat them or anyone else differently: commitment, effort, hard work, etc...

now if you can't separate those two instances of different treatment, well, mate, when you're back from your holiday we talk again, but I repeatedly (and tiredly) said the same thing over and over and over.

here it is:

I sort of disagree about Mou. The way you see him handling Ronaldo and Sneijder in both RM and Inter makes it obvious to me they were treated somewhat differently - but not to a fault. Which is why he was so successful in both. I think he doesn't favor any players because of their reputation over others, and I think he demands the same hard work and effort from all his players and but when they start to play under their usual, he assumes a position I personally defend.

Both examples prove that he knows some players are special and even if they don't perform as expected for a few weeks, he shouldn't move them to the bench because you never know when they will explode again and win you the match. Everyone else - except Ozil imo (Mourinho might think the same of him, whereas I don't) - that went through consecutive under-performances were sacked for a streak. In some cases long streaks others just a few matches.

In RM it was so clear that everyone in the team had defending responsibilities - even Karim and Pipita - but Ronaldo didn't have any and a lot of people called Wesley lazy while he was under Mourinho for a similar situation - although he demanded more from Wesley defensively than he demanded from Cris). So I think Mourinho recognizes especial players and may give them more freedom than he does to the rest of the team.

I meant that if a guy is special he will receive special treatment under Mourinho, as Ronaldo and Sneijder did... the most special in our team imo is Hazard and when he's ready (close to his peak and during his peak) I have no doubts he will have different treatment from Mourinho in the both instances I explained exhaustively in my post: defensive obligations and patience/complacency on bad performances' streaks.

To look back at how he handled those two players in both teams and how he treated the rest, only a blind can't see there was a degree of special treatment. It is a fact, not an opinion... go see how many times both of them didn't start under Mourinho - except for physical issues. Take a lot at Ronaldo's tackling stats or better: watch their matches.

He won't ignore if they stop to work hard, if they're late to training, if they miss training, if they deliberately don't put effort in their matches. Of course he won't ignore that stuff, but sub par performances? Pffft... He overlooked both in ways he didn't with the rest of the team.

In all those parts I talked about the same thing, but somehow you seem to see me talking about different things. But then again you thought I was taking jabs on you earlier when I didn't even read your post to start with, so maybe I should give up. Yeah, I might as well do that now. Also I'm sure it's becoming tiring for everyone reading. Just like the thing in the pub became the other day. So I might avoid discussions with you from now on.

[Stingray 9,441]

Im not tired at all. I am enjoying the sun.

I just wanted to say your arguments 'adapt' as the discussion progresses. Like now and like was the case in the Hazard discussion and the Mata one before this one. It makes a nice discussion very difficult. I am not a mindreader, so if i misunderstood, it is because of lack of clarity or consistency Barbara. Nothing more.

[Barbara 15,149]

Im not tired at all. I am enjoying the sun.

I just wanted to say your arguments 'adapt' as the discussion progresses. Like now and like was the case in the Hazard discussion and the Mata one before this one. It makes a nice discussion very difficult. I am not a mindreader, so if i misunderstood, it is because of lack of clarity or consistency Barbara. Nothing more.

it's not adapting... it's called admit to making a mistake, being convinced of something else, or avoiding stupid discussions. not many are capable of both and I fail on them many times, as right now seems to prove so nicely.

I stood by my point that Mata is overrated (but agreed with Dion that showcasing Mata match against Brazil was a mistake - although I still think he under-performed and the team was better - despite hopeless - after he was subbed). I think Mata is good, I've been telling this from the beginning, but he's not brilliant in my book. And I agreed with the guys that said maybe there aren't many players better than him in the position he plays, opposite to many better midfielders in general (so I was wrong in my first statement and was unfair and harsh on him). I stood by my point that Mourinho treated Ronaldo and Sneijder differently about two things.

I'm tired of discussing with you... I read enough threads in this place to know when to stop discussions with certain members. I'm stopping this one now. if you think it's because I change my opinion too often, or because I avoid confrontation, good for you. I'm stopping because it's annoying the heck out of me.

[Stingray 9,441]

Its nice to see you edited your previous posts to accomodate your point. Lol. End of discussion.

[Barbara 15,149]

Its nice to see you edited your previous posts to accomodate your point. Lol. End of discussion.

FFS Tom I didn't edit my previous posts to change what I wrote. I edited two posts to add things (one to add the part of Mata part (that I don't think he carried the team) and the other to add the quotes from my previous posts - that are UNEDITED btw). I didn't delete one line from my posts or changed them.

You want to disagree me, just fine, but don't lie or assume things that are untrue.

And that's why I applauded to Jason's posts and why everyone else dropped the discussion but you. There's respect coming from those people and they don't make things personal (like starting a discussion along the lines of postmodern jabs that were supposedly aimed on them). I can't say the same about you and I'm disappointed, so you lost my respect right there.

If you want to have your little discussions and then brag on the threads about having members banned, go ahead and do that with someone else. I'm not here for that. I'm too old for certain things.

Going into a stupid argument twice the same week, I could overlook, but downright accusing me of something I didn't do, I can't.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

get a room guys

[Dion 2,476]

Aren't they a beautiful couple? They're having their first fights, how cute.

[Stingray 9,441]

FFS Tom I didn't edit my previous posts to change what I wrote. I edited two posts to add things

You want to disagree me, just fine, but don't lie or assume things that are untrue.

brag on the threads about having members banned,

1. So you edited. Period. You added stuff. So i did not lie at all.

2. I didnt brag. I made a joke about it in the pub. I tend to do that.

Sorry if I called your bluff - apparantly thats a no go on the forum you visit. You take it badly i guess. I never made a personal comment (the postmodern followed by is a joke), you do it almost in every post now.

So i will not reply any more. Im sure you will want the last word. Just put me on the ignore list considering how much I bother you.

To every one else sorry for the extensive off topic.

[Stingray 9,441]

Aren't they a beautiful couple? They're having their first fights, how cute.

Its more a divorce with a hefty law suit

[Barbara 15,149]

get a room guys

Aren't they a beautiful couple? They're having their first fights, how cute.

on my part the free show ends here. What I can't read, I can't comment on. There's a line about respecting the others that I try to never cross and I hope people don't cross with me. Call me stupid, ignorant, wrong or delusional, but don't tell me I did something I didn't to win a stupid internet discussion. That's for kids or ... something I better not write here.

So if you were bringing the popcorn (or the tomatoes) sorry to end the fun

[Dion 2,476]

Its more a divorce with a hefty law suit

A real pity. I like you both and it saddens me to see petty fights over silly stuff like this, I don't even know what you guys were talking about because when I saw the direction things were taking I stopped reading. Well. Whatever.

[Barbara 15,149]

A real pity. I like you both and it saddens me to see petty fights over silly stuff like this, I don't even know what you guys were talking about because when I saw the direction things were taking I stopped reading. Well. Whatever.

the wisdom that I lacked, clearly. Lesson taken though

Petty fight it is... I've seen many of those here and I refuse to take part on them from now on. Learning the hard way instead of the easy. I should have listened when people tried to show me

[Sidzeret 2,257]

Its more a divorce with a hefty law suit

Stay together for the kids :-P

[Barbara 15,149]

Stay together for the kids :-P

you made me laugh out loud here.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

on my part the free show ends here. What I can't read, I can't comment on. There's a line about respecting the others that I try to never cross and I hope people don't cross with me. Call me stupid, ignorant, wrong or delusional, but don't tell me I did something I didn't to win a stupid internet discussion. That's for kids or ... something I better not write here.

So if you were bringing the popcorn (or the tomatoes) sorry to end the fun

just when i was getting started