Barbara

Well, I did bother to read this one, so there you go. I'll give you a lot of arguments of why you said something that makes absolutely 0 sense. The weakest link can't be someone that according to you compromises in big matches when big matches don't represent even 20% of the matches we play in a season. Today was just the biggest proof of how much he influences positively our games. Are you calling PSG big? Sorry, I know you're French and all, but they aren't anywhere a big team, they aren't good enough (major proof of that is that Mourinho said yesterday that if he could pick an opponent for the round of 16 in UCL it'd be PSG). Barça have been alternating ups and downs. The only teams that are either strongest or at the same level as us are Madrid, Bayern and maybe City. Also Cesc isn't responsible and shouldn't be held accountable for how Mourinho sets the team against stronger sides (regardless if stronger than us, but stronger than average). And you realize what a contraction is to say he isn't good enough for the big games, despite assisting? You said it yourself, a guy who assisted our goals in the most difficult games we had in theory can't be the weakest link in the team. Again, I had a problem with how far you took it. He isn't at all the weakest link the team, there's no angle you can make it work to defend your opinion and it has nothing to do with my undeniable love for Cesc. If you had said that he isn't good enough to play the big matches, I would have disagreed but I would have never answered to you. what you said makes no sense whatsoever. Cesc wasn't brilliant in those two matches, I agree with you. The blame resides partially on him, but also partially on Mourinho. Mourinho is always going to play way too conservative in those matches, Cesc just becomes one of the sacrificed lambs. Against the Manchester teams we isolated Costa in the attack and tried to feed his runs, but we basically didn't create anything because the first priority to everyone that wasn't named Costa and Hazard in those games, was to defend. If Oscar and Willian were swamped with defensive responsibilities, being attacking midfielders, what do you think happened to Cesc, a pivot player? He could have done better, but he still assisted our goals, so I can't even complain much. I have more complaints about the system, our conservative approach than about Cesc. And I definitely don't believe the recurring myth that he can't perform in big games. Arsenal was never strong enough to face big teams, not Cesc's fault. Barcelona never suited his game and after everyone figured out how to stop their tiki taka and Xavi and Iniesta entered the descending years of their careers, Barça was just harmless - which isn't Cesc's fault either. I'll accept that argument after he plays at least two seasons for us and consistently doesn't show up in those games, but as long as he's providing the assists for the goals we score on them, I can't accept it either. I can and will say he can do better, especially if Mourinho doesn't set up the team so defensively aware, but he has to underperform a lot more in MOST upcoming big games for at least two seasons, for me to have a fair sample and be inclined to accept this nonsense, because right now given the context he played for Barcelona and Arsenal, this myth that he can't play big matches is just that, nonsense of people that don't analyze all variables, don't understand the game tactically and are more than ready to jump every bandwagon that comes their way.

I had absolutely no doubt this would happen... he's the kind of player Mourinho likes to have in the squad. I just wish Schurrle can find is best form ASAP so we're limited to playing Willian only against the big guns. He infuriates me, but as I said, the problem here is me, not exactly him (although, again, he's not the solution at all).

sorry to disagree again. I've just post thrice now because I couldn't access the forum earlier, and they were three negative posts, but come on, we weren't lucky to win at all. We were a mess, we were lost, we missed Cesc dearly, but we weren't lucky to win. Our first goal was simply brilliant - the only moment of brilliance we've created in the whole match as far as I can remember and we have a striker that doesn't forgive (thankfully) that kind of chance, which is also merit and not luck. We played a very bad match, but we played the worst side at the league at the moment, so that's the only context one could talk about luck, but even then, we don't know how we would have played against a different side. I think part of the reason why we were so lost and disorganized is because Hull is just a mess too. It's hard to play against a team that is a mess because you don't know exactly which game play to go sometimes. Lucky is Newcastle winning last match, that was a lucky win, today, not even close. We were going to win today's match 101 times in 100 attempts if the game was replayed over and over and over. I'm far from happy with the presentation, but we were able to do what we had to do to win. I think there are some adjustments to be done, but I don't know if it's fair to ask for them during the December marathon. I hope Mikel doesn't ever start another match for us in the two major competitions. UCL is now in knock-out stage - he has absolutely no business playing those, and EPL is close again, with City breathing in our neck - a situation that he also has no business playing. He makes us look much worse and like an average team, something even in our bad days, we aren't. I'm not blaming the whole fiasco (football wise) today on him, far from it, apart from Iva and Eden nobody had a great match - although Costa really upped his presentation in the second. It's just a question of Chelsea being a team with too many and big ambitions to have a player like Mikel figuring in important matches, and until the title has our name, any EPL match is too important for us to afford Mikel, as we already played Hull at home now. That was the only match I think we could afford him, unless another team has a deep drop in their quality and become as bad as Hull in the last months of the competitions (something very likely to happen). Ramires needs to recover asap because he's much better than Mikel, despite his clear and undeniable limitations. Decent result, good to see Hazard winning us a match, great to have Costa reconciled with the goal. Hopefully we'll play much better against Stoke. Now that will be challenging, but Cesc will be back and some of the key players will be rest against Derby, so I think we'll be more than able to deal with it. no, they don't. Kompany, Toure and Silva were all back. They've missed Aguero and Dzeko injured himself on warm up. That doesn't qualify as a lot of injuries.

He needs to be dropped ASAP because unfortunately he became a walking liability. Will we wait until he really compromises a result to admit that? He was terrible today, should have been sent off twice - and I'll be honest, I said on my Twitter feed (because I had problems accessing the forum today during the match) that I wish he was sent off when he received the yellow (come on, that was a straight red any day of the week). If he gets a straight red with a tackle like that, he misses 5 matches in a row and sorry if I think that would be an early Christmas gift. I don't remember exactly the context, but in addition to the stupid dive and the terrible tackle, when the game was still 1x0 early in the match, he almost created the best chance for Hull in the entire match. I wish I could recollect exactly what he's done, but it was ridiculous. Then later on he misplaced a pass and that it almost gave them yet another attack chance. The only reason we didn't concede was because Hull sucks big balls. And people saying the old 'knee jerk' reaction or even using the stupid argument that we've been winning, should wake up. So far we've been lucky that his mistakes - which happen religiously EVERY FRIGGING MATCH didn't cost us anything (except you know, three points against Newcastle and most of the goals we've conceded in the last two months). Just because others - normally JT, Azpi or Courtois - fix his messes or the opponents players don't capitalize the gifts he keeps giving, it doesn't mean he hasn't been a liability. Come on, it's as clear as light. Zouma isn't anywhere near the end product, he isn't that great (yet), but he's definitely in better form than Cahill and I wish he was sent off today. We would have won the match anyway despite looking terrible (we're lucky Hull's routine is looking even worse than we did for once).

You know... I've had enough of Willian (and as far as I know I'm not PMSing, lol), but I'm so done with him. I'm sorry if I don't want him to even fulfill his contract with us, let alone renew it. I'm not advocating we sign anyone, I just want him gone and you know why? If he's not at Chelsea, Mourinho won't continue to make him a starting XI player and for the life of me, I can't have him starting more matches for us. It's not that he's a terrible player, he isn't, I've defended him enough times while people were saying what a robbery it was to pay that fee for him. It's just that he is the kind of player that ruins matches for me. I'm sorry, but that's the way I feel. He keeps making me bitter during matches because he's so frustrating, but so frustrating that he puts me in the position where I curse a Chelsea player during the match. I agree with @DYC. and @Dion that hating a player that plays for your team is ridiculous. This is just the opposite of supporting and guess what, we're called supporters for a reason, but I also can't help myself. I lost count of how many times I said fuck off for Willian today. I was mad, I was angry, I was so frustrated that I just can't see the good he does anymore. I've always had a problem with Ramires for the exact same reason, and I won't react differently to Willian just because he has great hair and is cute as fuck. I have a problem watching a footballer that can't pass the ball, I have a problem watching a professional footballer that is a dead end in matches, the ball simply dies on his feet. I can't help how I feel and that's why I'm done with Willian. I know all of his qualities, I know why Mourinho keeps him in the team (although I also believe if Schurrle was on top form, Willian wouldn't be starting even half the matches he'd been), but it's the same old story with him. He runs like an Energyzer bunny, he presses like crazy, he can even dribble (an upgrade to Ramires), but 7 out of 10 times the ball is with him in the final third it results in bullocks. Today he even made some uncharacteristic Ramires-squee passes, passing the easiest balls to literally no one. Just to make sure people understand my post. I'm not saying Willian is the problem (although he definitely isn't the solution). I am the problem. I have a problem with players like him, I can't stand watching them. They spoil my entertainment and my fun watching a football match.

For me it doesn't matter we won 2-0 (I mean, of course it's the most important, but that's irrelevant for the argument I'll have. Let's not fool ourselves, currently Hull plays the worst football in the league after Liverpool), we were awful without him. We looked disorganized at some spells and lost throughout most of the match, our midfield terribly sloppy, but mainly, no bite at all and the transition was even worse than last season's. We relied on Cahill to keep having long range passes to Iva in the right - and they actually worked a couple of times. Mikel not surprisingly kept passing the ball backwards. When was the last time our GK has touched the ball so much in a match? To make matters worse, Cech has the horrible habit of roofing the damn ball, instead of passing to one of the back four, which means we constantly riffled the ball. That's why I was damn pissed and I can't believe there are people stupid enough to say he's our weakest link... He's our most important player alongside Hazard. Hazard bailed us today - which is a joy to watch because he should be winning us matches, but let's be honest here, Hull presented no resistance. They pressed well in the first half, which made our transition look like a Championship side, but other than that, they were toothless and their defensive system wasn't even that good. So we barely managed to score a couple of goals against the team in the league that's in the worst form, we didn't threaten enough, we didn't convince, we didn't play well, we did nothing worth mentioning, unless we decide to talk about Hazard. Can you imagine if we lose Cesc in a slightly challenging match then? We're screwed. I don't know if Cesc makes Matic play better or if Mikel makes him play worse, but that must have been the worst match Matic had for us since he came back. Sloppy, shaky, inconsistent, even stupid at times. When the team doesn't know what to do with the ball to get it in the attack, we have Cesc presenting himself and at least trying to get something done. Oscar did it a few times today, but then he had to pass the ball to Mikel and everything went to fuckery. André had two good chances, but nobody, not even once, found him running in the 10+ minutes he played. We're almost dependent on Cesc playing for us, and although that's the highest praise a player could receive, it says a lot (negatively) about a team with the squad we have. Every time we play without Cesc this season will be a nightmare, so I hope it doesn't happen much.

team has been horrible, sloppy and complacent. I can't stand to watch Cahill anymore, Willian is the most frustrating player ever, Matic and Mikel are leading the sloppiness and Mikel gives me nightmares. I'd have Schurrle for Willian asap and I wouldn't mind if Ramires subbed Mikel, but this one I know won't happen. Either way, this has been terrible and Lamps can go fuck himself.

FOY = Fucker of Years hate this cunt

Iva has been amazing

Matic has been quite sloppy.... edit: and Mikel is even worse. Fabregas is deeply missed

André is, and I'm positive he'll play at least 25 minutes today

Oscar crossing for a Hazard header goal. I've seen everything and what a cross that has been

I swear I'm reaching my limit watching Cahill playing for us. I swear I am.

positively surprised by the inclusion of Luís in the starting XI. Hope he has a good match and doesn't make any defensive mistake - which had been his letdown so far.

Bamfordinho makes it look so easy to finish. He has that killer instinct that is so lethal for strikers. Can't wait for him to be here. edit: just won a penalty... otherwise he'd get into the net with ball and everything edit 2: what a shot by him now. Looked a lot like that Willian goal earlier this season (don't ask me against who) edit 3: should have scored at least a brace here, but Grant became a world beater defending his amazing shots

still this game is live on my TV... the Championship is more traditional and interesting than many leagues in Europe. But thanks for explaining me the background... it makes sense, although not much

still so many empty seats for such a big game...

but they're so much fun!!!!!!!

I can't for the life of me understand how a player can play in the pivot, lead tackles won in some of our matches and still be labeled as someone who can't do the same job Oscar or Willian do defensively. Maybe they press better than him - as if our system was based that much on press to start with. There was a time this season that yes, we were a pressing machine, not as of late though, but I wouldn't call either a beast and I don't see how much inferior defensively Cesc is to any of them. If he is, it's slightly imo, something we can totally overcome.

you compared the situations. Mata couldn't play as a #10 because he doesn't have what it takes to do it in this system. Cesc has everything that it takes to be a #10 in any team in the world, including Chelsea. I'm not saying you compared him to Mata, I said understood you were comparing his situation to Mata's. Mata had a lot of weaknesses that compromised his performances in our system as a #10. Cesc has none. Go some pages back in this thread. He's been performing worse now than he was two months ago, his latest matches he struggled a bit physically - simply because he's tired. Of course, some people in the thread made it look like he was even the 'weakest link in the team' (stealing Oscar's captive status btw), which is an exaggeration, but he's been up and down lately compared to earlier this season because he's clearly tired. But now he'll rest this weekend and hopefully also in the League Cup. I'm not discussing he's at his best in the pivot. That's not up to discussion imo, but there's no way playing Cesc as a #10 is playing him out of position or affecting our whole system as you clearly stated. Both things are a stretch imo but we can agree to disagree.

but I do hope it's not mono... many athletes don't ever recovery physically from it. It can be nasty for professional athletes. They can still lead a normal life but can't perform at high level the way it's demanded by modern sports.

and also because they associate mono with kissing and sleeping around, lol, so that's probably why he doesn't want to say what that was... unless he got it from Montana. I'm for real, some people hide this specific disease because of the ways it's passed along.

I think you only made your initial statement worse. It doesn't make any sense to say playing Cesc #10 is playing him out of position or out of his usual role, but then you compare this to Mata and it gets 10000x worse. Cesc can do everything Oscar or Willian do at #10, but no one can make what he does at #8. That's why we play him there, because we don't have a player to replace him in the pivot and play the same role. But he can play as #10 and still not affect our pressing and attacking systems. We would have to change nothing... He can tackle, he can press, he isn't much slower than Oscar (if he's any slower). Willian doesn't play often as #10, so that doesn't even feel like a fitting comparison. I don't think Oscar does anything considerably better than Cesc. Cesc presses really well, he can tackle, he has better vision and better passing. Maybe the only edge Oscar has is finishing - although Cesc has it on him too, it's just he hasn't been trying much imo. So no, playing him as #10 isn't playing him out of position, or in an unusual role and doesn't compromise our system. Playing him as #10 just means we create a problem in our pivot as nobody can properly replace him there.

Much better - not only better - but much better form than Cahill currently. Should cement his place in the team. It's not like Cahill doesn't expose us every match with a couple of stupid plays, so even if Zouma does the same, it wouldn't be tragic. I'd rather see than Cahill any day. I was never convinced of Cahill's quality to start with. I thought there was a chance he was overachieving last season. It feels like it was the peak of his career and who knows if he'll be able to replicate that.

how Ramires can't complete a pass as easy as that - and still be a professional player - will never make sense to me