Barbara

I was listing the things that bothered me here, not saying you or someone else said all those things. Well, as I said to someone else, I respect your (his and everyone else's) feelings on this. I just think it's unfair

I agree on his sloppiness - I agree he's inconsistent. I just find it harsh 1) to ignore his impact LAST match and mention he was sloppy because of 5 passes uncompleted in the second half. People said it in the post match thread and in this thread. They were talking about the Swansea match. It's like they're like 'he did okay, scored twice, BUT was sloppy in the second, BUT lost the ball many times or misplaced many passes'. Then another discussion started - which I said I agree partially. He's been inconsistent. We should expect more from him, but at the same time, there's only much is fair to ask from a 23yo. Some players peak later than others and I think he's been doing okay lately and has done in some streaks in the past. I for one am happy it's still winter - when he normally struggles - and he's finding his best form. Last season he was in a free fall following the Saints' match where he and Willian won us the match in 20 minutes (the last 20) in the first week of the year. It's not that we can't say he has to do better, is completely writing him off in the future - as some did, including Skipper, which surprised me - ignoring his age and comparing him to other players either more experienced or playing a completely different kind of opposition. I don't like comparisons in the first place. Mata could be the best player of the league in other country and inexpressive in EPL. KdB found his best form in German football, while here - despite receiving few chances - he didn't seem to fit (seemed a bit too soft, both physically and mentally). Just because one recognizes the kid has been impacting our games despite not being on his best technically doesn't mean we're ignoring his shortcomings. We're just giving him credit for what he's been good and also recognizing some improvement without ignoring he's still a work in progress. I feel like I've been repeating myself on this thread over and over for the last three days. We all have different instances on him. Some think his 'supporters' are delusional or blind, others think his critics are too harsh and unfair. While he scores and assists 8 times in 9 games I won't complain much, I'll at most address some shortcomings, but along with a lot of praising for return. Which other AM has had such return in his latest 9 matches? Fans from other teams would be all over the moon with the substantial and impacting contribution. Chelsea fans are demanding him to be the end product right now and nitpicking five misplaced passes in a second half where we were winning 4-0. How many times people demanded Oscar and Hazard to impact more directly in the matches? Hazard got some very late recognition about his contributions, and Oscar seems to be on even later recognition. IT seems like we're demanding everything at once. Consistency, creativity, direct impact, growing big balls and resolving when we're struggling. That's too harsh imo. Let the kids grow and mature their games, tactics, deal with their limitations and improve what they aren't naturally doing well. They ARE work in progress I think you've skipped most of the talking in this thread before the Swans match. Many people weren't asking for him to be dropped, but to be replaced by a new signing altogether saying he's not Chelsea material. there aren't many 23yo around the world I'd call Chelsea material tbh.

I guess you misunderstood his post. He said Willian is used NOT because of his quality (therefore lack of it), but because of his pace - which is more suitable to counter-attack (which we tend to play in big matches away from home)

2007-2008: It's natural that footballers' form drops as the season progresses, but as we see, at Arsenal Cesc's form didn't dip more than your average footballer's. He was injured a lot and missed many games, but that's it. He was still very good when he played. It's bloody hilarious how Arsenal fans keep repeating Barcelona fans' narrative now that Cesc is a Chelsea player. Our med team is miles ahead of Arsenal's. He'll be fine. Thank you for that. I'm also sick of reading the same old BS myth created by those bitter fans.I provided some stats (wrote them) a couple of weeks ago, but let's see if now that it's been 'drawn' people can finally understand, see and for God's sake, get their own mind about it instead of jumping a bandwagon they never even tried to check if was correct. And again, it has to be said, Cesc was NEVER suited for Barça tiki taka. Yes, he has amazing passing (despite a few here claiming the opposite a few months ago, lol) and he can exchange passes for all day and not get tired, but his thinking is too direct. He touches a lot the ball, but it's fast, forward touches if he can decide, not that passing for the sake of passing and frustrating your opposition that won't have the ball. Also he was brought when they didn't exactly need him as they were too reliant on Xavi/Iniesta. And that's when the false nine BS started. And not to mention Barça have been a mess with many managers - none of which competent - and sort of lost, especially when they saw their big stars starting the descending years of their careers or Messi picking up injuries. Cesc was just a casualty in the fading years of a great team. He was badly managed and underused. Not his fault his been asked to do something that decreases his influence on matches.

never said the opposite, but you - alongside others - were harsh on him for picking up five incomplete passes in the second half and calling him sloppy in those 45 minutes when the team as a whole relaxed. Still he almost scored another beautiful goal, took part in some of our best attacks in the second and would surely score had Surely not done it before him... Harsh in my book. To each their own, but I think there has been a lot of nitpicking with Oscar. It seems the kid never wins. Few people mention and give him credit and praise for scoring very early opening goals (I guess it was his third or forth this season), or for scoring the opening goal regardless of when, or for having a combined of 13 goals and assists in 19 matches in the league, 8 of which in the last 9. All I see is this thread being on fire when he's bad - and I admit he goes through really bad spans - and either quiet (apart from the usual Oscar 'fans') or nitpicking on what he doesn't do when he does well or at least gets himself in the scoresheet. Go back the last pages and nobody is detracting from their assessments, nobody apart from the usual members are giving him credit. It seems like most people purposefully ignore him when he does well, but make sure to pop when he doesn't and are also supportive and argumentative on the nitpicking. When he has a bad match people will make sure to leave a post saying so. The pages of this thread tells this story, not me. He is far from being consistent enough or the end product, but he's far from being as useless as many of you claim. Even you changed your instance about his future. I'm not against criticizing him, it's just the tone in this thread is harsh in general given his age and his contributions (even if they aren't consistent enough). That's not fair. Not when 1) most of Oscar's goals are more an individual effort than a collective one; 2) a player like Mata is in the team supposedly to bail them out of the jail, he has the skills for that; 3) until a couple of weeks ago Oscar was called the weak link of the team. Makes no sense to say Mata can't deliver better in a team where he serves Rooney, van Persie and Falcao. Or is served by di María, Rooney and others. For all the worship here about him being a little genius, he shouldn't be so dependable on others to have better stats as his main job is to create. He is the guy who creates, not the guy others create for him. Not uncommon to see all kind of excuses made for Mata. As usual, double standards, but I'm not saying you don't have a right to think like that.

The disdain and nearly disgusting he says "nah" is what makes him The Special One [emoji7] [emoji7] [emoji7]

What do you mean not fair based on how we're playing? I can't understand...

That's the very definition of nitpicking imo. Especially because every player is entitled to mistakes. It's when something becomes a routine that the problem starts.

Lol

I was going to take a guess and say hazard had at least twice more than Willian and that would be me being nice... Thanks for that. Unsurprisingly results

But nobody is getting too cocky... quite the opposite. We're saying we need to rest players in both cups so we can have a rested team (or at least rested key players) to play against City

I know, but physical condition is a tangible factor in the equation. Look how we played much better with a week of rest? I say get things done tomorrow with Liverpool - yeah, at the Anfield - because we can. Then play a mixed team in the weekend and next week against Liverpool Our key players need to be spared one out of the two games after this Tuesday. So rest some the weekend and others next week.

Actually I felt the whole thing was a dig at Lamps. I had this feeling even before I hit that part of the text. To me is clear Mourinho is deeply disappointed by how Lamps handled this.

I think the one aspect he improved this season compared to the two previous ones is his linkup with Eden (and has been also creating a good one with Cesc). It's been a very slow process, but I'm starting to see it happen. He's much more connected, aware and has a much better understanding now with Eden (and Cesc) than in previous years. That was one of the biggest advantages Mata had... his understanding not only with Eden, but about the game in general, with a killing vision are among his best qualities. Oscar is miles away from catching up, but I've seen progress there. And that's what we need him to progress the most. If you look at the second goal, he was the one that passed with a first touch to Cesc and that has happened many times before this season between Cesc-Eden-Oscar regardless if before an assist or not. He needs to get himself involved, he needs more consistency with his passing and vision. We've seen him give some amazing first touch passes, he has a good first touch, as well as good vision, good passing, good finishing. The problem is that he isn't consistent on any of those things and he isn't great in any of them either. Mata had no space in this team, mate. The style José wanted didn't suit him and I think the way modern football developed, the last league he should have gone is the English. Mata is a classical playmaker that is also very weak physically, very slow and who needs the team to be built around him for him to produce his best outcome.Regardless of Oscar or Kevin, even if we didn't have either in the team, I don't see Mata playing consistently in a Mourinho's team. Two goals came yesterday from amazing pressing (Oscar involved directly in both pressing moments), we are quick to try to recover the ball after we lose it and Mata can't do it for many reasons. Oscar may not be the answer or the best option for the position, but there's a reason Mourinho let go of Juan and regardless of who stayed, joined or will join, I support his decision 100%... Cesc is a good combination of Oscar and Mata, having the best of each - which is why I consider him, and not Oscar, as Mata's replacement. José knew he had a creativity issue with only Hazard in the team, then he brought Cesc. We keep dreaming about an improvement in the RW but I'm not sure José will pursue one... at least not this year.

and never gets booked when he deserves. I lost count how many times he deserves a red or a yellow and gets away with it.

you mean their title? This made me laugh

I wish I could quote mine (or others') posts saying that we shouldn't be that worried about City closing the gap when they had all more challenging games to play in the second half of the season. Even teams like Everton and Arsenal - who are far from brilliant (actually Everton is having a nightmare season and I developed a dislike for them, so yeah, not complaining) challenged them and got points from them. They had laughable fixtures during the most challenging period of the league while ours was quite the opposite. We've visited all difficult places that were there to visit and the only big team we still have to visit is Arsenal, they have to visit everyone else except Arsenal (and now Everton). It doesn't mean we can relax - we can't, but they have a high hill to climb in terms of difficult fixtures while we already did that.

I swear this has been totally unexpected for me. I'd bet the money I don't even have on a City win, or at most at a draw because of Yaya absence. Well done, scum edit: to support the idea

I have no doubts there are better players out there than Oscar... my main point throughout this whole thing is that he's young, why can we not wait? Willian is the one on his peak age that despite contributing with the defense has nearly zero attack return and the one we shouldn't expect much improvement from. Actually, someone should watch the last two matches closely... his energy level is slowing down - which is expected and completely acceptable as he's been running like the energyzer bunny since the season started. Yesterday Willian's defensive contributions weren't good, although I thought he looked better in the attack. I feel we need a better RW more than we need a better CAM because when we need a better CAM than Oscar we just move Cesc higher in the pitch and problem solved. I think we also need to address a replacement for Cesc - not only for those times Mourinho decides to employ him higher, but also for when he's suspended/injured (knock the wood). I think those are more critical now than replacing Oscar as he's been delivering good return despite his problems (which I admit he has, sloppy passing at moments, carelessness at others, inconsistency, frail physique, etc). Even getting an upgrade from Cahill should be addressed before upgrading Oscar. He's renewed my hopes that he can have a big and great future here - something I was getting a bit doubtful lately given his presentations throughout December and the overall feeling of stagnation.

but how the best manager in the world chose one over the other? Couldn't Jose keep Mata if he thought there would be space for him when he set up a 'better team'? Mata never suited the style Mourinho wanted - or his plans - and never will. And that discussion has absolutely zero to do with Oscar. Oscar was the replacement Mourinho found in the squad. The moment he's not satisfied with him he'll negotiate him the same way he did with Mata and KdB. Or people think there aren't clubs that would like to have Oscar if Mourinho puts him in the sidelines? so using the argument that we have a better manager now than we did back then and that's why Mata would do better now, when said manager concluded Mata didn't fit his present and future plans (otherwise he wouldn't have sold him) is contradictory.

that's some outstanding football knowledge. It rivals a few things we read here (not necessarily this thread). But no one here is a paid pundit so we at least have an excuse to say all kind of BS we want. Sort of.

boo hoo, are you mad? trololol I won't bother checking them... that was the argument I said I wasn't part of - the stats - my only comment was about you being obnoxious - as usual - with the always so creditable sources. I stand by it. As many times as necessary. I'll continue the discussion, not with you though... as I said, we shouldn't bother with you, it's the biggest waste of time in this forum... as someone said the other day, three certain things in life, death, taxes and a response from you

Was I even part of this argument? I'm just saying last time you used Wikipedia (or something just as bad), now a site that has a different criteria... next will be comments in the daily mail articles

indeed completely unsurprisingly... then I have to trust some fan-made site as the source - where they don't even keep the same criteria. We shouldn't even bother tbh

The ones who demanded him to be the end product at age 23