Barbara

it's not adapting... it's called admit to making a mistake, being convinced of something else, or avoiding stupid discussions. not many are capable of both and I fail on them many times, as right now seems to prove so nicely. I stood by my point that Mata is overrated (but agreed with Dion that showcasing Mata match against Brazil was a mistake - although I still think he under-performed and the team was better - despite hopeless - after he was subbed). I think Mata is good, I've been telling this from the beginning, but he's not brilliant in my book. And I agreed with the guys that said maybe there aren't many players better than him in the position he plays, opposite to many better midfielders in general (so I was wrong in my first statement and was unfair and harsh on him). I stood by my point that Mourinho treated Ronaldo and Sneijder differently about two things. I'm tired of discussing with you... I read enough threads in this place to know when to stop discussions with certain members. I'm stopping this one now. if you think it's because I change my opinion too often, or because I avoid confrontation, good for you. I'm stopping because it's annoying the heck out of me.

I guess you're tired, not old I never stated preferential treatment about everything. I kept repeating, putting in Italic and bold what I really meant. I said he treated Ronaldo and Wesley different from the rest when it came to what he demanded from them defensively and how he overlooked the slumps they had. I was so clear in all posts about that... Then I made a point - because it seemed necessary to make you understand - about the things Mourinho didn't treat them or anyone else differently: commitment, effort, hard work, etc... now if you can't separate those two instances of different treatment, well, mate, when you're back from your holiday we talk again, but I repeatedly (and tiredly) said the same thing over and over and over. here it is: In all those parts I talked about the same thing, but somehow you seem to see me talking about different things. But then again you thought I was taking jabs on you earlier when I didn't even read your post to start with, so maybe I should give up. Yeah, I might as well do that now. Also I'm sure it's becoming tiring for everyone reading. Just like the thing in the pub became the other day. So I might avoid discussions with you from now on.

I believe part of that is genuine (what he says in those vids). To look back at how he handled those two players in both teams and how he treated the rest, only a blind can't see there was a degree of special treatment. It is a fact, not an opinion... go see how many times both of them didn't start under Mourinho - except for physical issues. Take a lot at Ronaldo's tackling stats or better: watch their matches. He won't ignore if they stop to work hard, if they're late to training, if they miss training, if they deliberately don't put effort in their matches. Of course he won't ignore that stuff, but sub par performances? Pffft... He overlooked both in ways he didn't with the rest of the team. And I can say that because I am a fan to both teams and I followed both teams closely in the years Mourinho was there - except RM last year because I was really sad about what they did to Mou there and the constant attacking on him bothered me and it was making me dislike RM and I won't allow a player, a coach or whoever to come between my love for the team, so I took a step back, ignored the media and Perez for the most part and watched less matches. It was saddening to watch what happened there and it's even more saddening to keep seeing what certain players are doing to that club. They fail to realize the club is bigger than them. They think the club is them currently and I can't with this shit, so I'm sort of ignoring some of the ridiculous stuff coming from Madrid now. But I'm sure about the special treatment both Wesley and Ronaldo received under Mourinho in the instances I talked about. So not only I'm telling you that he treats a certain type of players differently, but that I support that in the way he does that. I also remember how he dealt with Balottelli (far from how he handled Cris and Wesley). I had so many laughs on those two while they were on Inter. funny - and tragic - stuff. Good times. That was laughable especially for Mata. How does Rooney is worthy Mata + 10m? How? But then again, I'm far from being a Rooney fan.

mate, did you just compare Higuain to Torres? TO TORRES? nuff said... also Pipita >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ba He won't come here. He doesn't want to stay in RM where he feels he isn't appreciated enough, he won't come to a place where he isn't their main option to the position... he needs to play to be sharp to the wc next year. That's his main goal.

I wish I could give you a 1000 likes for this post. It deserves it Following his career closely, I doubted he even said 'Mourinho wants me there' (as stated in the article) let alone the desperate part they added to the title - but not found in his supposed words in the article (as far as I can say, I didn't read it all, just let my eyes go through most of it). Also this is a rumor. He is not coming here. While I don't believe Mourinho for one second when he says Rooney or bust, I think they're focused on making that happen now.

I honestly can't understand what you meant in the bold... I meant that if a guy is special he will receive special treatment under Mourinho, as Ronaldo and Sneijder did... the most special in our team imo is Hazard and when he's ready (close to his peak and during his peak) I have no doubts he will have different treatment from Mourinho in the both instances I explained exhaustively in my post: defensive obligations and patience/complacency on bad performances' streaks. How does this go against whatever I said previously, I fail to understand, but I'd love for you to clarify. In another thread though as I think this is going off topic in a JM thread. Just realized that JM stands both for Mata and Mou And please, do you expect Mourinho to give all his secrets in his vids about coaching? as for the last part that does belong here: Stats can help a lot, but they don't define everything in sports like football. There are guys with better stats than Cris - guys that are really bad, not only in comparison, but in general. Reason why I rarely use them. But even if I use them, you can't ignore Hazard's stats, so it means it was a collective effort - more from certain players than the rest, but still it wasn't one guy making us win the matches - especially because I consider last season more of a failure than a success for reasons I could also discuss in another thread. That said Mata contributed a lot, I never took it away from him. I just said he didn't carry the team. Meaning that if we didn't have him we would have done terribly... I don't think that's the case. He was MIA in some matches - some of them important matches - as well as Eden has been in some, our defense in others, etc, etc. This is the exaggeration that comes in that I roll my eyes at (the exaggeration, not you or your opinion). Just because I said I don't believe he carried the team, it doesn't mean he wasn't the biggest contributor.

the day Mourinho makes an entire team refuse to talk about their own player. And then they don't understand why he's The Special One...

This one I read - sort of. I hate this expression 'The proof of the pudding is in the eating' so I admit I stopped reading the moment I read it I'm picky like that, but I have a few pet peeves, and that expression is one of them, so I sort of predicted the kind of thing that was to come and didn't continue reading (a mistake as you didn't carry a point I though you would). I do agree with the bold part though. this one I suppose is the one you meant and I totally missed it. It was probably while I was writing one of the responses... I sort of disagree about Mou. The way you see him handling Ronaldo and Sneijder in both RM and Inter makes it obvious to me they were treated somewhat differently - but not to a fault. Which is why he was so successful in both. I think he doesn't favor any players because of their reputation over others, and I think he demands the same hard work and effort from all his players and but when they start to play under their usual, he assumes a position I personally defend. With Ronaldo I remember clearly when he stayed a few matches under-performing (some matches not even to his standards, he played 2 or 3 matches horribly to any standards) and people questioned if he was going to be sacked like Sergio Ramos and Casillas had (especially because those two are considered gods to Marca and most of Madrid's press), and Mourinho refused to do it - within reason imo. The same happened with Wesley and Mourinho reacted the same way. Both examples prove that he knows some players are special and even if they don't perform as expected for a few weeks, he shouldn't move them to the bench because you never know when they will explode again and win you the match. Everyone else - except Ozil imo (Mourinho might think the same of him, whereas I don't) - that went through consecutive under-performances were sacked for a streak. In some cases long streaks others just a few matches. In RM it was so clear that everyone in the team had defending responsibilities - even Karim and Pipita - but Ronaldo didn't have any and a lot of people called Wesley lazy while he was under Mourinho for a similar situation - although he demanded more from Wesley defensively than he demanded from Cris). So I think Mourinho recognizes especial players and may give them more freedom than he does to the rest of the team. I can see him doing the same with Hazard - depending on the formation he uses and he's more patient - others would call complacent - through their downs moments. I can see him doing this with Hazard as well, although maybe not at first - as you can't compare the moment Eden is in his career to the moments Wesley and Cris were when under Mourinho. Both were on their peaks while I feel like Eden is far from it (he's brilliant currently, but I think he'll be much better). The 'sort of' in my first statement is that I agree that Mourinho is big in team performance, where he demands from every player to do their job and that normally includes teamwork and tackling for everyone (except this one guy because he doesn't need 11 players defending), but he has no problem with setting up teams that favor his best stars. So I might be interested in reading whatever that research is. I think there are cases of both instances and there's a difference between a team where there's only one brilliant player and the rest is average and a team where there are a few stars, but one is the biggest of all. A star can't carry a bad team, but a special player can carry a team filled with stars (I've seen this so many times, it's what happens to most teams that have those special guys, because they end up leading the rest of the team to perform above their usual as well). I have no doubts Cris has been carrying RM - despite the stellar squad - for a while now and if he leaves, they're fucked. The same can't be said about Barcelona because when you have Iniesta and Xavi on their best, there's no way even Messi can carry a team... I don't feel like Mata carried us. As I said in a previous post, Cech and Drogba were essential in the CL title and last season all players had ups and downs so I don't think one of them can be responsible for the team success in finishing 3rd and winning EL. It was more like a collective effort (for the good part) and a collective failure to capitalize (capitalize in keeping the start in EPL where we were 6 or 8 points ahead of ManUtd in the beginning and of course, at least going through the group stage of UCL).

huh? I didn't even read this thing you mentioned you said... was it in this thread? What I meant is the whole 'I wouldn't trade him for this, this and that player' (when we were discussing the other guys in other teams) because 1) it won't happen 2) if one of those guys come here, it doesn't mean they can't play by his side... I really have no idea what you're talking about, but I'll go back in the thread and try to see. Either way, I can't opinion because I didn't read.... if you want I can give you an opinion on that once I read said post Well, the only one I heard associating him with a club is the Rooney story. The rest just said we were selling him but they didn't even bother to come up with teams, did they? I gave up trying to make my point it isn't about him being useless or bad, but I'm going to hope he has even a better season under Jose

He does look happy, doesn't he? Don't take me wrong, I'm passionate about RM - not as much as about Chelsea, but I try to avoid conflicts between both passions (plus Inter) and I couldn't wait for him to leave Madrid (ofc I wanted him here, but more than anything else I wanted him out of there). I'd said it through all last season. It wasn't good for RM anymore and it was terrible for José. He looks younger, happier and better now. Anyway, I'm so happy to see him like this here and I know problems will come and tense moments will follow, but I hope he doesn't lose this happiness through all his stay with us.

I don't think he's leaving the club any time soon, there might be bids coming for all we know, that are just down right rejected...

people aren't fair And I like to have opinions refuted or confirmed with facts instead of theories. So that's why I appreciate that kind of post so much. But of course, everyone in the convo contributed as well, but I like the way you put it. I've seen you do the same in so many threads. Always respectful, always objective. You even deserve a kitty in your twitter after that it's been a while after all

yes From what I understand Jim needs people to write the previews and news, so the site can become a reference about news as well. Count me on both.

@, amazing post, mate I will go against my own rules and will surprise you in the next MOTM bs thread next month. Your posts are always a pleasure to read, Jay. I agree with a lot of things you said and of course (based in my own posts in the matter) disagree about some. But the way you answer those kind of posts is always amazing to read. Many great insights instead of theories that really aren't that practical in football.

I agree with both of you as having more than one. We should have more than one. We will have more than one. He was the one the past couple of years... not the only one because I can't look back to the CL title without thinking Cech was maybe the most important player - as important as Didier actually. Well, so let's hope I underrate the guy, others underrate Hazard (I don't see Oscar or Kevin really being stars this season already) and they both come with out-of-this-world football. I still think we can do better than we did with Mata the last couple of seasons, and that will probably come true with Hazard this season.

I love Pipita and being a RM fan, I've watched plenty of him in the past six years. I of course want him here, but I don't know how much of that is bias because as I stated, I love Pipita. His movement is amazing and his positioning is enviable. He misses a lot, but he scores a lot. Let's not forget the amount of goals he scored two seasons ago in a team with Ronaldo as Europe's top scorer and him alternating matches with Benzema. Even his 19 goals last season doesn't look bad when you put things in perspective. He does play by Ronaldo's side and he rotates with Benzema. So for a guy who rotates and plays with Ronaldo (that not only scores a lot, but is very selfish), it proves he's quality. I'd hate if he went to Arsenal. I wish he went to another league actually - except if he came for us, that is. But he won't come for us, so I hope he goes to Juve or whatever...

I didn't think of Dortmund because Dortmund is a competitive team like us now, not a powerhouse in football. I forgot to add Juve though. Bayern is much more a collective team than one-guy team imo. They have many guys that make them work like a machine. Ribery and Schweinsteiger might be the most noticeable ones. Both of which I rate higher than Mata... (and now I crossed the line ) I may have been harsh on him (didn't plan to)... I don't want him to go, I think he's going to be very important to us. I just think we need someone better to be our star... we may have that on Hazard this season already. Let's not forget for many Hazard was our best player last season... it isn't about how flashy Eden is. It's about how he will step up and solve matches for us when we are under pressure. It's about him standing up in matches that were important to us last season and Mata was nowhere to be found...

I agree about not showcasing that match. It's a NT match and that isn't fair... even Messi and Ronaldo failed in NT more than we should count (although for different reasons than Mata did). That said, I rewatched the match just last week, I can't for the life of me point Mata as one of the standouts. Just an opinion though. The point remains, in a time like the powerhouses in football Mata would never be their main star, although would of course be a valuable and key player. My whole point is about overrating him, not dismissing him. I don't expect even 10% of Chelsea fans to agree with me. After all I'm stating he is overrated which means people think he's much better than I think he is edit: @The Skipper, I'm not embarrassed at all. I just think it doesn't compare to what the big guns in football have... It's hard to try to make a point about perception. I think he's great... just not as great as most Chelsea fans think he is. I'm not dismissing the guy. And I guess we are quite the opposite of spoiled. We are in routes to become spoiled, but we aren't spoiled. Not when we look back to last season and see what happened...

I know he had a good assist, but Spain as a team in that moment was nowhere to be found... whereas they were closer to their usual in the second half. If we are going to discuss isolate goals instead of looking to a whole match, then we miss the point. Is Chelsea plan to continue to be the team that because of one good play - like Drogba's goal against Bayern - win titles? Or do we want to be a powerhouse? That's exactly the point, Dion. If a player like Mata is expected to give one good assist in a whole match in such an important match, then we should continue to be the team we are today. And that's the point. Do we want to take one final step and be in the same level as those teams I mentioned in the previous post. Or are we happy to continue to be the team that from time to time will really challenge them? There's no problem in being the latter. But I think Roman's plans are more ambitious than that. But maybe I'm wrong.

That's exactly how I feel, but rarely say it myself so I don't sound ungrateful or harsh. But imo the truth is when Mata came in we were the team parking the bus against strong opposition because our midfield lacked any creativity, power and brilliance. So of course he shined, after all he is quality. I still believe he is overrated and to say what you said in other words, he isn't big enough to be THE player in a team like Chelsea plans to become. I'm not sure he has much more to grow - to be honest - so his ceiling is probably not much higher than where he is now, while Hazard and Oscar seem to have miles to grow. Out of the three, he's the less brilliant one, but the other two are too young and still have to grow and mature a lot, and let's not forget continue to adapt to EPL. And the fact that Mourinho seems to hint that he will move him from his undoubtedly best position, shows he might think the same because if he believed Mata was the best player in the team, he wouldn't move him to a position that isn't his favorite (not because of personal preferences, but because of results). I don't expect any less as Mourinho understand football better than any of us. If some of us can see this, Mourinho definitely sees this and more. I have no doubt as the young guns gain confidence, Mata will lose space in the team. It's the obvious thing to happen - unless the young guys like Hazard and Oscar and then Kevin don't progress as everyone expects them to progress (those things aren't completely predictable and some players never live up their potential. I hope that's not the case with those three) You just further prove my point with this post. In a team there had huge midfield deficiencies and then two adapting players, Mata rose above all, but really, his ceiling isn't this high thing you seem to imagine. Nobody here - as far as I can say - thinks he's done in his growth,but just like every other 25yo player that there isn't that much left to improve. He will improve in things like the ones you mentioned, of course he will, every player working under Mourinho does, otherwise they visit the bench. But there's a reason players the same age as him had chances in Spain NT where he continues to be a reserve. And when VDB tried to use him in the starting XI against Brazil, he was one of the most useless players in the match... He did basically nothing for Spain and the team improved when Navas got in. Which comes back to the point that against big teams with good defenses he tends to disappear because while being a hard worker, and consistent in his play, he isn't what I would call brilliant. Great yes, but not brilliant and that's my point since the beginning. Chelsea fans - on their majority - for the lack of a star in the midfield - made Mata seem much bigger than he really is. In teams with good midfielders he would never be THE player. Just the next great guy contributing to it. So according to your own post he needs better teammates to reach a certain level, whereas brilliant players are the ones that reverse a negative situation, by owing a zone in the pitch (and in rare cases even the whole team) and making a difference. So yeah. Note that I don't think he's bad, far from it. But when you see the very top teams and see who their stars are and you compare them to Mata, you see the point Magic Lamps was trying to make. We already won every title that is there to win. We don't have to prove we can. Now we have to prove we can be as big as teams like Real Madrid, Bayern, Barcelona and Manchester United. In teams like those Mata wouldn't ever be the main star. Ever. But he would be one of their key players, which I think is what he'll become to us. And I personally am not looking for a flashy player. Oscar has a higher ceiling than Mata imo and it doesn't get less flashy than Oscar... That's because Mourinho - better than any of us here - knows where there's more potential. I think in a year from now both Oscar and Kevin will threaten Mata's position in the team - if they continue to grow as expected (the three of them).

my Brazilian side - Flamengo - is playing I'm going to enjoy it. Just don't dare lose, boys - I know you're terrible this year, but still.

Best thing about (pre-) season: the countdown never goes double digits in the days to the next match. WIN! I agree we could do the one team for each half thing while in Asia (not only against Malaysia, but also Indonesia) because to play the Guinness Cup I'd like to see a more definite team (don't even remember how many subs are allowed in there - I suppose unlimited as well?) not only because we have the CC players coming back but because we need to start testing the main team. We will have an additional friendly - against Rome - out of the Guinness Cup and I think 4 matches it's okay for us to have one team starting and making 4-5 subs at most instead of the whole team. I'm anxious to know if Oscar will be part of Mourinho's starting XI plan (for the season). As of now I think it's unlikely because Mourinho seems to be invested in the 4-2-3-1 (ugh) and it will only get 'worse' if Rooney comes. People didn't like André much today, but I think he needs to find his space and predictable or not, we need a winger (especially if we're going to play the 4-2-3-1) - because Moses isn't a start all matches player... far from it and I also don't think he's a 90-minute player either. so maybe because of adaptation Oscar may have a place now, but will slowly transition to André? I have no doubts Schürrle will become the next David Luiz - excited, motivated, identified with the club - and Mourinho seems to like him... I hope he likes my teddy bear too. He needs to be a regular in the team in his second season if he's to live up his potential. If he doesn't play often, I fear we'll berate his progress and he'll be sort of wasted and will lose motivation. Back to this match though - I digress - I want to see Schürrle + Lukaku again.

Count me in as well. I write daily news for the Brazil site-affiliate of Chelsea FC. I could translate those to English. I wrote two post matches news today and one general news yesterday... I could translate them now Jim, if you want. But both news are related to info the official site published. I don't remember what I wrote about yesterday, hahahahaha edit: after checking it, yesterday I wrote about Chelsea not selling off any players My memory sucks more than I'm comfortable admitting. I guess I'm too old

it's also something I've seen both American and British say all the time. Maybe it's their equivalent of in portuguese using emprestar both to emprestar e pegar emprestado. It's wrong (as far as I know), but still used broadly. Jan welcome, dear, I hope you have a great time here

what is this picture about? From when he was an Everton player? I think Mourinho is counting on two things (as he seems pretty confident about Rooney) 1) his ability to discipline and manage players 2) Rui Faria's amazing work with players physically 3) Whatever remaining motivation Rooney still has regarding WC next year I still don't want him here, but if he comes, I really hope he does better than Torres. He has flop written all over him - just like Torres had. I was right about Torres and the week I've spent cursing and moaning is still fresh in my mind. I hope I'm wrong this time IF he comes.