Barbara

If the reference is Lampard, then I see where people are coming from and maybe it's worth a shot in one of the upcoming more manageable games in EPL. If the reference are players who are great in the position, I feel like Kevin won't do it unless he works a lot in his defensive skills. He's similar to what Hazard used to be defensively wise and while Hazard improved it considerably, it's basically more effort than result. He still looks clueless a lot while doing it, but at least he's pressing and trying to tackle, which is enough for an AM, but not even close for a CM. So we keep saying the pivot is one of our problems, but then we want to move a player there that will continue to offer one of the problems we currently have? Ramires is an excellent tackler imo, his defensive service is good, but Lampard is terrible - for what the position demands if we want to have balance. So while with a guy like KDB we'll probably improve our transition, close the gap between defense-midfield and midfield-attack, at the same time we're perpetuating the large amount of space we offer to our opponents when they have the ball because Lampard is far from impressive closing gaps in defense phases and recovering possession. I still believe the reason why we failed so badly the last couple of years in EPL has more to do with the amount of goals we conceded than the amount of goals we didn't score. Fixing the pivot is mandatory to remedy that - reason why I don't think Kev would be effective there, but I'm not totally opposed to the idea as we haven't seen him there yet (in EPL). Maybe he'd surprise me, but I don't think he's the answer to our pivot issue and I don't think we have to accommodate him in the team just so he plays. He might be worse than Lamps defending and instead of improving our pivot, he might worsen it overall, although of course, he'll improve transition.

the problem is the brainfarts that supposedly come with the style when one thing has nothing to do with the other imo. His pro-activeness and his aggressive has nothing to do with his sloppiness, but everything is put in the same package. Also, it seems based on what English members post here that his style isn't appreciated in England - where they do a more basic and textbook defending. I think it's England's loss then. They should be teaching their young CBs in academies how to be more proactive. When he doesn't compromise with his stupid mistakes, I don't see much said in this thread nor in the articles I read (from England) they don't criticize (and of course don't compliment either) his style when he's killing it. The criticism only comes when he makes the mistakes, and it's fair criticism imo, but then they include the style in the convo and that's where I think they're wrong. his style and his sloppiness are two different subjects.

I guess we stand at the same position actually. He's in bad form, he has problems that aren't smaller and shouldn't be overlooked. I guess the part we disagreed is how many chances should he be given. Mourinho will give him plenty, I'm sure of it. Which is why I said others are also receiving chances not based in their performances, but in their potential. I wrote a lot, and if you look back in all my posts here in the last two weeks you'll find me always saying the same: Luiz is a better CB, Cahill is in better form. In one of those posts (today's) I even said I'd play Cahill tomorrow (and every big game) and Luiz in the EPL given the kind of opponents we'll face until Arsenal until Luiz recovers his form. Now guilty as charged where it comes to my love. Among all Brazilian players in the world, there's none I love more than David Luiz. None.

Alonso still was until last season one of the very best in the position imo, playing as a DLP. Now he has had some physical issues and we should wait to see where he stands, but until last year I can't understand why someone would say he's old or past it. Class is permanent and if there's one thing Alonso has always had is class.

saying goodbye to my redhair. I'll miss it girls will get how difficult that is Also a pic in the Irish pub I went the other day. Approved (also look at the board at the up left side. those names ahead of the 60 pints are 80 pints... Brazilian can hold their booze ) and there's this one guy who had 100 leading the competition.

What you said and what I said about the kind of players Mourinho wants don't exclude each other. That's where we disagree about Luiz, but as we agreed not to discuss it because I don't really like to discuss one's sportsmanship whoever they may be. I agree on the minor sides thing. What I meant is that we see Luiz being sloppy - which I don't think it's a conscious decision - against weaker sides. I chose a bad combination of words, and you're right. We also disagree about who to fault in the City's match. You may not be one of them, but had Luiz made that mistake, this thread wouldn't live to have so many posts blaming him and not Cech. As I said, @JDY saw it coming days before the match. Cahill allows that to happen whenever he plays a striker like Kun or a team like City. If you don't consider it a mistake, it has to be at least a limitation. But if you don't see any, well, it's your opinion, one you're entitled to have.

if only Mirror was reliable and I could actually believe José is dropping both Cole and Lampard... I have no doubts though Azpilicueta is starting in the LB

the yellow part: were you complaining about that last year when Terry was injured? Because I'll admit my memory fails, but Luiz was all that when we needed him to be. Or did I miss something? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm being very serious. As far as I remember he was out safety net last season. bold part: well, I'm not exactly what one would call modest when it comes to my knowledge about Mourinho. I've been following the man for nearly 10 years now because he's been training each and all of my teams in Europe and I won't pretend to have false modesty and say I 'guess' I know him or I know a bit of him. I know him a lot. He wants a more fixed and passive CB as the last in the line that will give him the safety, the solidness, the coverage and a more aggressive as the second in the line, that will recover possession faster and before. He has that combo with Terry and Luiz, but all he has with Cahill and Terry is textbook positioning and defending. Terry is nearly complete, but he's slow and while he makes up for it with his positioning and reading of the game, we'll continue to concede goals like the one against City time after time after time when the partnership is Cahill and Terry because they're a very slow pair and Cahill doesn't have half of Terry's vision or game reading. So whenever we play fast or decent strikers with that partnership we'll be exposed like that. Also Cahill plays everyone and their mother in the offside trap, he's terrible at that. If he plays opponents and can't catch up with them because he's slow, he's overloading Terry instead of helping him. We've seen in a few times this season, but Ivanovic, Cech and Terry made up for it many times. Are we going to rely on that at all matches? Trust me, Mourinho doesn't want that. I refuse to comment on your suggestion that Luiz gives less than his 100% to the club, shirt, teammates or fans. We definitely disagree on that and that's the kind of discussion I don't like to have. I think he has concentration issues, he has problems that need to be fixed, that aren't small and shouldn't be overlooked, but I don't think he consciously just spare himself against minor sides.

We need width, that's obvious, one of the reasons I was so vocal against Mazacar the moment the lineup was released (there are a few other, or many, didn't count). But we don't need much the fullback overlapping. We need the full back to linkup and to drag players, because as pointed by the guy himself, we have midgets in the attack except for Torres and Ba (all our AMs are short or not tall enough), the overlapping normally brings crosses, something Mourinho said we don't need or use. He's talking about ManCity midgets, but you can't compare Kun to whatever we have here, much less Silva... if we had Aguero we wouldn't have striker issues... so not a good example imo. So I think Iva and Cole should be more present to link up - which sometimes will include overlap, many times won't and we need them to drag defenders mostly (which is his point 2 and I agree mostly with). Our best chances to score are our AM's and in the rare occasions our strikers do score, they seldom do it by receiving a cross. Torres - despite being injured again - has been running and taking on opponents - even daring to dribble, Eto'o likes to play behind the lines, and he's also better cutting and shooting, so why would we need overlapping as much as the guy stresses? I don't think we do because how many goals have we scored like Schürrle's recently? Also has this guy seen Ivanovic and now even Cole's crosses? I thank God we don't have them overlapping to cross that much because that's the quickest way for us to lose possession. I think our FB need to take more action in the attack, but I doubt we'll ever see this team having FBs overlapping all the time because it doesn't work for a team like us. I know this is English football and I know this is how they played it probably since the 1800's. Still it's not as effective as it was in modern football and it'll be less effective (or even completely ineffective) if we stick with it. Cutoffs yes, as I suppose those are linkup plays (not familiar with the word to be honest, but from what I gather, it's giving the ball back to the winger or whoever without crossing into the box). So not only we don't have strikers who make good use of crosses, our FB can't cross to save their lives (Azpilicueta isn't much better at it either imo). So I'd rather have them do what Azpili usually does, which is dragging and linking up, rather than overlapping. The cutoff I welcome if I understand it properly though. One thing he's spot on. We need width and we have with both Willian and Schürrle better than we have with any other players because while they do cut in like Hazard, Mata and Oscar do, they normally go higher than the other three, are faster (maybe except compared to Eden), more direct and exactly what we need now imo.

his problem is mainly in the mentality. He has the tools, the skills, the intuition which are things that can't be taught. So giving him stability (in his play) and working his head is easily possible to do at 26. When I say potential I'm talking about stability. When we needed him the most last season he was there saving our arses while Ivanovic and Cahill were leaving all kind of messes behind them. I believe he can mature and get passed his mistakes because while he's 26 he's young and I don't think any of his previous managers worked a lot on him about that. They just trusted him and overlooked his occasional messes. Mourinho isn't like that and he'll try to fully develop him. As for the ratings, whoscored shouldn't be used for fuck, they're useless and I can't believe people even bother with that. But in the two matches prior to the Cardiff match Luiz was our best player in the pitch by the long mile. He also had other great matches before those two. And then he messed up and he's struggling and he isn't in form. But he will be given as many chances as needed, Mourinho is much more patient than fans - as he should. It's clear our philosophy will be based in a lot of pressing and there are few CBs (not even Terry btw) who can anticipate and intercept better than Luiz because of his bold and aggressive defending. Mourinho will wear out his attempts to give Luiz stability because if he can work past his instability issues, he'll be one of the key players in Mourinho's team and Mourinho knows it. That's why during summer transfer speculation he was shy to say say Mata would stay, but went out of his way to say Luiz weren't for sale and complimented him more than once. If Mourinho fails (or better said, Luiz fails) he will look for a better player to replace Luiz. Cahill isn't and will never be the kind of player Mourinho needs or wants in the starting XI. Among all those terrible performances by Luiz you saw Mourinho complimenting Cahill only once - in the English NT.

how many as necessary because you don't find a CB with his potential in every corner and once you have to chance to polish a player like him that's what you do. How many chances were Mata, Hazard, Cole, Lampard given this season despite playing shit at occasions? Were they making the same kind of mistake as Luiz? Some were. Cole didn't even bother to try to catch up his opponent in a few times he was overran, he has the least amount of tackes - successful or not - among all our defenders (he has less than Oscar!). Mata should have been more objective, but instead preferred the fancier pass and is yet to have a top class performance for us this season, Hazard only recently decided to turn up to matches, although he seems to be pondering about taking another break. The nature diverges a bit, and while with Cole and Lampard I blame Mourinho's stubbornness and also lack of much better replacements, Mata, Hazard and Luiz are kept because Mourinho thinks he needs to polish those players into what they need to be molded to. Mourinho is looking at the long term... Maybe Luiz won't start tomorrow, but give what was our main problem Saturday and what he did in the pitch 95% of time, I'm not sure he had the kind of performance Mourinho had a problem with. I'm positive Mata won't start and I'm not entirely convinced Hazard will. Cole and Lampard shouldn't, but how much does Mourinho trust Mikel and Bertrand? I wouldn't be surprised by seeing Azpilicueta as a LB again. Oscar and Torres may be dropped as well, but whether he's dropped tomorrow or not, I see Mourinho insisting with Luiz despite of his mistakes in the long run because not only Luiz has rare technical quality in his position, but especially because Mourinho cherishes a lot that kind of defensive player - the kind that is technical and build instead of raffling the ball by trying to get rid of it as soon as possible. Also his mistakes aren't costing our matches... the same can't be said about a few other players... yes, he cost us goals this seasons, others cost us points... we need a bit of patience. What I think Mourinho will do and I completely support him is: he'll play Cahill in the big matches - like tomorrow - and he'll stick with Luiz in EPL especially given the oppositions we're facing until Christmas. As Luiz progresses, Cahill will be less used in the big matches until he's back into the player he is: a squad member. If Luiz can't improve in a whole season, then I see us going for another CB next summer, but Mourinho won't give up on him as fast as you think (or implied) he should. He'll give him plenty of chances and kicks in the arse and will exhaust his efforts with him.

People need to be remembered we're a team in transition from time to time because it seems they forget it too easily. The other teams are also in struggling shape and that's why a team that only had 1 win away is running second in the league. Everyone is struggling otherwise we'd be downer in the table because we're a team in transition. Mourinho just said yesterday he doesn't know what's his best team although he has an idea. Those players still need to learn a lot of things for all this work together. If anything the loss to Newcastle is going to be useful in their learning curve. The main thing remains though, we are a team in transition and people are expecting results and performances out of a miracle and from night to day because they think just because this team is valued a 500 million or whatever, we're the end product. This isn't 2004, this isn't the same kind of squad and Mourinho's and the Roman's goals are different now from what it was then and this team isn't the end product yet. Did Chelsea fans grow so spoiled (by titles) that they can't accept a loss anymore? Struggle, transition, difficulties it's part of routine for any team. Losing one match isn't the end of the world, but for some it seems unacceptable. What is unacceptable is how we lost, simply because the players didn't turn up and played with no heart and soul. I'm sure Mourinho is working on that and they'll learn that lesson the easy or the hard way. So if we have only one win away because of the poor and nearly coward way we played against ManUtd and how we woke up too late against Tottenham is because we're not ready. Mourinho while directly responsible for how we played both matches could be blamed for the results, but is it really that hard to understand that with the team he has in his hands, how young that team is in the attacking positions and how we're completely changing tactics from Benitez days Mourinho - or any manager in the world - would need a few months? If we're going to criticize him - which everyone is entitled to and he should be held accountable for his mistakes - can we at least take those things into consideration? We haven't won the league since 2010 and ever since we've been pathetic finishing 14 and 20 points behind the champs. So actually fighting for the title in a season where all stakes are being moved around in our landmarks is more than decent and acceptable imo.

With the squad depth we have now proved by the matches against City and Arsenal people are talking about having dead rubbers to rest players? Chelsea can play any combination of 11 players on weekday and other completely 11 players in the weekend and we'll be strong giving who we play in December. The reason why we should do well on CL in the three remaining matches is because we need that 1st place to avoid bad crosses in the round of 16. We shouldn't be confused about what happened Saturday. That was a soulless team that I'm sure has been smacked by Mourinho ever since in all possible ways. I'm sure a few of them met a side of Mourinho they didn't know yet and I'm sure it'll shake them. We didn't lose because we played bad, we lost because for an entire 45 minutes basically none of our players turned up to play. The reason we were so successful in other matches was because of pressing, focus and dedication none of which we showed against Newcastle. They really believed they would win when they pleased, with Newcastle scared of them. But then Pardew realized how our players were pathetic and changed his tactics for the second. We don't need to rest players 1) they're not tired (too soon in the season for that) 2) few players haven't been rotated except in the League Cup (Cech, Iva, JT, Ramires). So the rest talk seems out of place imo. We need those guys to work their tits off. That's what we need, whoever those 11 may be. And I have no doubts they will because they got the Mourinho treatment after that ridiculous, arrogant, lazy, disheartened match.

if anything against ManCity I guess he - or Mourinho or both - were going for the creative CAM thing if you ask me. I'd rather trying to make him someone like Mata or Ozil rather than Schweinsteiger or Alonso. Just not sure if Matas and Ozil can be made or if they're born that way

^^ unfair with Cech and Terry imo, but I guess he's not being literal

don't worry, we certainly didn't capitalize

I may regret these words later - because I need to watch the game more carefully, but as it stands now, I'd say he and Cole were the biggest liabilities there technically wise. I still think our main issue was attitude instead of technical, but if two guys had technical issues today (Cole also had the attitude issue) it was those two. Lamps have been alternating good and bad performances. Today wasn't this first horrible match. He's still good and important for us, but Mourinho's been stubborn insisting on playing Lamps at all matches - especially the important ones. Why everyone can see that Lamps physically can't afford to be technically good playing matches, but Mourinho can't? I'm not dissing Lamps, but while I think he still has more than enough to offer for us, I don't think he can do that in a weekly basis. But Mourinho won't give him up, will he?

I'll rewatch too, then we talk again. I was too pissed at some points to really pay enough attention all while doing the report for Chelsea Brasil that needed to be published within 10 minutes from the end of the match. So I spent most of the match taking notes and being pissed or frustrated. I need to re-watch it clinically - although I don't feel like that will be a good experience

Let's not talk about those matches because in all honesty we'd be in bad shape with any of them. Luiz hasn't performed a great match for us (I don't think he was that amazing against Arsenal, although was solid, but again, that was a mixed Arsenal side) in a small while (although he did earlier this season). Cahill makes me nervous every single minute he plays. Cole has been making mistake after mistake and Terry and or Cech have been saving his ass time after time. Bertrand isn't reliable, and I'd be nervous too in big matches with him. So we need to take advantage that we don't have BIG matches coming - although we have important matches such as Schalke - and try to get the best out of those guys. I'm sure an in-form-Luiz is way better than Cahill, and I saw Luiz in form this season for Brazil - and to be fair a few matches for us, two of which great imo, so I think Luiz can be 'fixed'. As for Cole, I don't know where the problem resides and I don't know if we should be trying to 'fix' him or trying to mold Bertrand. It seems like almost a loss-loss situation. Cahill is decent, I get tense watching him, but he's better than Cole now and I guess I trust him better than I trust Bertrand. But we need to work in that LB, that's one of our biggest liabilities this season imo. I guess it's only less bad than the pivot - that alternates great matches, and the same old rubbish matches from previous seasons.

Was way below his usual today... only started creating for us in the final part of the match. If he's going to be the player Mourinho trusts to lead our attack midfield he has to do better than that. Much better. He has to carry on from his matches with the team earlier in the season, he dropped a bit his level, and he hasn't had a GREAT match in a couple of weeks. Okay matches when the whole team, or most the team, plays well it's okay, but he's one of the guys we need to step it up. He and Hazard are clearly the men Mourinho trusts the most in the AM, they need to start backing up that trust. Oscar did for most part of the season, but hasn't in the last 2. Hazard had 2 or 3 really good matches this season. If Mata can't live off last season contributions, neither can Hazard also from last season or Oscar from his amazing start of season. Check the Mourinho thread, I posted charts that prove you're wrong. Mata played most time in the middle... just see their heat maps, area action and passes to see Oscar played most time in the right. ITA The problem today wasn't Mata, was Mourinho. If he wants to play Mata to shup up media and fans, to please Mata or because Mata deserves it, it has to be at the expense of Oscar in the bench. I'm not even going to compare both players, picking who should start and who shouldn't, they're both quality, but neither of them has been creating tons for us lately. I read a scout about Mata in the Arsenal match and he created very little apart from the goal. The same applies to Oscar in the match against ManCity. So Mourinho has to choose who he'll play. Both Oscar and Mata already showed they trust their manager's judgment to do the best for the team, they won't complain about being benched, they'll work hard to contribute with the team, starting or coming as a sub.

but Cole is bad for us every single match! I don't know if Bertrand would mess up in the long haul, but Cole is overran, dribbled, and concedes turnovers way too often. I agree I'd rather someone better than Bertrand, but I guess it's hard to be worse than Cole recently.

this man has been flawless the whole season so far... we should appreciate him much more. Without him we'd be way worse, I have no doubts.

should be played, end of it. Cole is a liability defending and nearly useless attacking, so why are we playing him? And that's coming from someone who doesn't like Ryan, but Cole is terrible these days and he needs to be dropped ASAP! Mourinho's been insisting with a couple of guys he shouldn't. Cole is one of them.

I think Luiz is playing well below his standards, which levels him down with Cahill - who has been playing really well to his standards. So given current form, Cahill should start more. Thing is José believes Luiz can do much better and I don't know if he'll improve from the bench. He was rightfully dropped after Cardiff for a sloppy mistake, today he was poor - I don't care how the rest of the team was, I'm talking about Luiz. If he's dropped now, it'll be because Cahill is playing better, if he isn't is because Mourinho wants to give him confidence. I don't blame him for the loss, I don't think he was as abysmal as people are making him out to be. But the same way I think Bertrand should be playing instead of Cole, I have to admit right now I'd rather Cahill started, based on form solely. Luiz is the best defender between the two of them, he hasn't been in the last few matches though.

imo we shouldn't be desperate because the problem was the players didn't show any soul, will to win or took the opponent seriously. They'll get their arses kicked by Mourinho, so they'll learn if we want to win the league - something most of them aren't used to - they have to show clutch in every game. Mourinho will also learn from his bad selection - I hope - and I don't see a reason to be desperate when we came from such a great streak. This loss doesn't mean much in the big picture. Being 5pts behind Arsenal now means little as well, this is only GW10, there's plenty of time to close of gap of feeble 5 points. I don't think most of us blame Mata, I feel like most who criticized Mazacar blame Mourinho for playing both Oscar and Mata at the same time. Had Willian or even Schürrle started from the go instead of either Oscar or Mata, I'd fancy our chances better. A few of us were moaning before the game started, when the lineup was released... so it has nothing to do with how Mata performed. He was bad, so was Oscar, with Hazard slightly better in the first, but completely anonymous in the second - which means he was all of the same compared to the other two. It was a collective mess, that imo, was caused mainly because the players sort of rested in their laurels from the past 6 matches. They didn't take this seriously as they should as I can't believe any of them are tired as most of them only played once in the past 7 days.