The only place to be

Backtracking? I think that's rather unfair isn't it when you actually read what I've said. Emenalo - based on what direction the club has taken in regards player acquisition and development, I think he's done some good things. What you've actually written there is the very opposite of 'enough said' if we're being quite honest. I think this is a very important discussion by the way, and I hope fans do become engaged with these types of issues and educate themselves on them as best they can.

He was the best player. Our midfield was shit in the second-half and overrun by Arsenal's. How do you reconcile those two things? My belief is that he thrives in games where we're playing with our backs against the wall (Barcelona, Arsenal) and his fast breaks enable us to take advantage of broken transitions. But we can't win football like that consistently and nor should we aspire to.

I understand Emenalo doesn't have much experience but when you look at our transfer dealings over his time here, do you have any major issue with it? The signings have been geared towards long-term investments in cheaper players, and it seems to be paying off, right? In fact doesn't it directly address one of the key failings of the people who were in charge before him? Then look at the loans - Lukaku, Courtois, De Bruyne, Chalobah etc. are all on very worthwhile loans aren't they? Compare that to what happened in the last 5-7 years of this club when kids with promise pissed it away on teams subs benches. Yes we're lacking in the first-team but that is the result of ZERO medium-term planning in the years 2005-2010 isn't it? We're moving from a system where we'd spend millions of pounds on the transfer fees and wages of players aged 28-30 who had no sell-on value, to one where we're targetting players aged 19-24 with fees and wages significantly down on what they used to be (with the occasional marquee signing). Isn't that a vast improvement on what we had? Then there's the fact we made a profit which astounded pretty much everyone. I sound like a fanboy for the board, but I'm simply the only person urging caution in calling for people's heads at a moment of crisis.

I don't rate Gourlay. I promise I haven't got him on my shirt but I know a few people who work on football boards and they accept that they're not going to be liked by the fans most of the time. They're the people who spend most of their lives saying no and when they do have good news (like a sponsorship deal) then it's seen as a given that they should be doing these. But I think in this case they're being given an unfair appraisal by certain people. That doesn't mean I'm on the wind-up. When I look at the financial and commercial side of the club, I don't see many things I can criticise Gourlay for that specifically come under his remit. If you want to have an informed, grown-up discussion about him then that's fine but that list of things he's done wrong is either unfair (no-one could have predicted the youth team players not stepping up, and I think many of us are still surprised at Josh's lack of progress), a misremembering of history (the writing for Ancelotti was on the wall for at least two months before the Everton game) or uninformed (we still don't know the full story regarding the Wilkins sacking, although my gut instinct is still that it's wrong). The Emenalo discussion is also one worthy of a more engaged debate and it'd be a good thread title. I judge him by our player recruitment and development over his time here and I'm encouraged by that, but he certainly has some black marks against his name. With regards Buck, I've altered my stance precisely so I'm consistent in the way I appraise these people (such that I can). He's been a constant over Roman's time here and ultimately (if you'll excuse the pun) the buck stops with him. I also see other candidates who might be able to do that job, although I do appreciate the support he gave JT. I'm not saying people don't have the right to criticise, but I think people need to be aware that they are people doing a job the best they can. Calling them shysters or yes men from an uninformed opinion, or saying they do very little is at best unfair. A discussion on these issues deserves better than that.

Peace, although I like most of what he says, has given a one-sided view of Gourlay's job. I try and look at things a little more balanced. I think the fans have been treated like modern football fans. We were given the guy we wanted as manager in the summer and then we got the worst possible candidate when he was fired. It's a shite state of affairs but I personally look at it as something that's the result of a number of years of bad practices. I don't just blame the current regime as some people do. I think people either avoid going into specifics or misrepresent the facts (that we're aware of) when discussing the board. Take for instance the loans. Now we're playing catch-up to get experience for the youngsters precisely because we fucked up in that department 3-5 years ago. We never had that group of players aged 20-25 to supplement the Ballacks and Makeleles in the team. That's been one of the fundamental failings of this club but I don't think we can fire many of the people responsible for that. By your logic (of blaming Gourlay) shouldn't Kenyon take the fall for that? But I hear very few people criticising him. In fact in the original article, the author suggest re-hiring him! Do you think he's 'nailed it' with that suggestion? The reason I've said that Buck might have a case to go is for two reasons - firstly, by using the standard I've used to judge Gourlay and Emenalo I think he actually is responsible for those issues we faced. He was the Chairman at the time after all. Secondly, I can think of someone else I'd like in his spot who has a proven track record in this type of role. It's very easy to slip into the pantomime of being a football supporter, but these are people's jobs....people who have bills and families and wake up in the morning and stub their toes on doors. Saying they should be sacked without a little bit of considered thought is a little unkind in my view. I think any person, be it the cleaner or the owner, should have their employment situation treated with the same regard.

Torres was purely a choice by Roman?

Did football people not sign Azpilicueta?

I would prefer us to not be in the competition. I think it will damage us long-term.

I've said we should prioritise certain competitions over others and that I didn't like the idea of us playing midweek games before important league games, but I always support the team on the day. Don't try and paint me as something I'm not. I may not like the Europa League but I still go to the fucking games and support my team.

I like the direction we've taken with regard our commercial, transfer and recruitment activities in the last couple of years (with the obvious exception of the Torres signing). I may well change my mind if things change though. Why would I have an inflexible mind incapable of admitting mistakes?

Sure we can...but will we?

Exactly, but do we have the impetus to utilise it? Champions League football has to be the target this year. There were people saying that we should go for the Europa League because the coefficient mattered!! That type of thinking led to us playing Mata on the Thursday before the Man City game. But if we do miss out on the CL, I don't think it would be the end of the world. I actually have faith in the squad that we have to mount a challenge next year. Some people might want to call me naive for thinking that, but I do. I think we could follow the example set by Bayern in 2007 who completely re-thought what they were doing as a club. Two Champions League Finals in the last three years is pretty good. If we make the Champions League then maybe we do change what we've been doing. That would be great. Or maybe the club sees it as validation of what they spent the last decade doing and does it again. Did finishing sixth in the league last year change anything? Are we a better club because of that, or did we all go to the Megastore and get our photo taken with the CL Trophy and ignore the sixth-placed finish? We sing Champions of Europe, We Know What We Are. How about Sixth Best Team in England? Because that's what we are as well. Twenty Five Points behind the Manchester clubs THAT'S WHAT WE ARE.

Actually the lyrics are 'The Only Place To Be Every Other Saturday Is Strollin' Down The Fulham Road'. The Champions League is a great competition, but it isn't the be all and end all. Going to matches to have fun with your mates is what supporting this club is about - some people need to remember that, some people need to learn that. This club doesn't cease to exist if we don't get CL football and to those who think it does, you won't be missed. Because I thought that the Top Four was a must. Part of me still does, but look at the club. We're a mess and sometimes you need to hit rock bottom to realise what you're actually doing to yourself. Maybe a year out of the CL gives us a chance to reflect on what we're doing and do it better. I'd like Jose to come back, but first and foremost I want a manager who will build a better Chelsea. He isn't the only one who might be capable of that. The doom-mongers and naysayers might say it would be disastrous, but it could be the making of us like it was for Bayern and Barca. I've seen those very same people throw this team under the bus at half-time during a match, only for us to win it. Most of them don't have a clue what this club actually is and have no investment in it beyond the start of next season. But we have the makings of a great club, with a sustainable future. We just need the will to take that chance and sometimes you need circumstances to force you to take a different route rather than relying on yourself to do it. Imagine going to a match next season and maybe not hearing that CL music, but seeing a team with Lukaku, Chalobah, De Bruyne, Cole and Mata lining up. Imagine going to a game excited to see the future on display, rather than consoling yourself with snippets of youth cup action on Chelsea TV. That to me is exciting.

It's easy to say things like 'delusional' and 'naive' but backing them up is trickier. We aren't Liverpool. We aren't Arsenal. We have a fantastic wealth of young talent and experienced players. Bayern missed out on the CL in 2007 and reassessed what they were doing. Why not compare us to them instead of Liverpool?

Very nicely put. Doesn't actually mean anything though. I can see the case for Buck going but I personally think the problems started before Gourlay and Emenalo took up their roles and I like the changes we've made since they actually took over. Do you have any specific reasons for wanting them gone? Also, do you still think the author nailed it and thus want Roman gone?

So we don't get Jose. So fucking what? If he loves the club then he comes back, if he doesn't then we move on. This CL or nothing mentality is fucking us up as a club. It's been the reason for us to patch up this sinking ship rather than build something better for years. Yes we won the Champions League last year, but we finished 6th in the league. There were at least 5 teams better than us in the league last year. There were 5 teams in England better at building a football club than us. We won a cup competition but lost a league by 25 POINTS. 25 POINTS. TWENTY FIVE POINTS.

But Champions League football hasn't done much to improve our managerial hirings in the past has it? The expectations are too high. I believe that if we miss out in the CL we can still win the league next year. I think it gives us a clean break to reassess what we're doing and try and build a club properly.

You call Gourlay and Emenalo over-promoted, but I'm not at the point where I blame them for the state we're in. I see our problems as being in the makings before they actually reached their positions. In fact I think they've both done good things. I think Gourlay's done good work in the commercial side (which is his job) and I think Emenalo needs some of the credit for the change in direction regarding our transfer and recruitment policy. If you look at the signings made under his tenure, then I don't know if you could make a case that he's either been over-promoted or deserving of the sack. In fact there's been a greater emphasis on long-term planning since both men took their current positions, although you may think the credit needs to go elsewhere. I think they are easy scapegoats in many respects. It's a given that we want the manager out so we can't have a go at him. He's gone. But then there's got to be someone above him to blame, right? Well we can't demand Roman leaves (most of us won't) because he bankrolls us right now. So who's left? I think Buck is the exception. I like the guy and I admire the stand he took in the Terry case but I don't know if he brings enough to the role, although the role is somewhat limited. From a PR and organisational point of view, I'd love us to get someone like Lord Coe in there (I've mentioned this elsewhere) but I'll admit I have no idea on the feasibility of such a move.

I wouldn't be against him firing Buck. I've long said it would be brilliant if we could attract someone like Lord Coe to be chairman but a lot of what is wrong at this club was started with different people in charge. Hiring Kenyon again just to fire him wouldn't be worth it. Management is the key area and if we don't have the pressures of CL football or the 'dressing room influence' of certain players then we could try a younger manager again, like Martinez or Laudrup. This is kinda what I see. We're split between two different roads forward - the safe one where just qualifying for the CL is enough so you stick with older players in familiar roles, and the riskier one where you give untested youths (or even tested ones) a chance and try new things. The reality is that the former isn't working too well right now. In the summer, we all pretty much agree we need a new striker and midfielders. Now imagine if we don't get into the CL and people like Falcao or even Modric (outside bet I know) turn us down. What do we do? Maybe we look at less glamourous signings like Benat or Isco, or maybe we just look at what we already have and go forward with Lukaku, De Bruyne and Chalobah. Rather than signing 27 year olds to gaffa tape a system together that doesn't work, we look to 20 year olds to build something new and sustainable? Then there's also precedent set for when Feruz and Boga start to come through the academy. Yes we'd miss out on the money but the increase in PL tv revenue will cover part of that so maybe there isn't a better time to start the process.

I understand perfectly, and that might force us to use the likes of Lukaku and De Bruyne and even Chalobah. Bayern went through this in 2007 and they've come out of it pretty well haven't they? It might give us the chance to build properly, rather than trying to repair a ship built in 2005. As I've sad elsewhere, it might give us a chance to lose some of the deadwood in both the club and the support.

So I'm totally clueless because I suggested to you in another thread that maybe missing out on the CL might not be the worst thing in the world? At least have the bottle to say what you mean.

When you sit and think about it, the idea of us maybe getting rid of some players and being forced to play the likes of Chalobah, Lukaku, Azpi, De Bruyne, maybe Courtois (selling Cech could cover some of the CL shortfall), Piazon and maybe even Feruz could be damn exciting. A whole crop of youngsters being given the chance to build a new Chelsea, where 5 players don't hold all the power in the locker room.

Fair enough. Personally I'm starting to think missing out on the Champions League might be the best think that could happen to this club long-term. The obsession with it has masked a lot of deficiencies and been an impediment to slow, sustainable growth. We finished 6th for last year for fuck's sake. A year out might cost us a couple of players, but we'll keep most of them and we might even be forced to give players like Lukaku and De Bruyne a chance - imagine that, young players with bags of talent being included in the team. A true champion is tested not when he's winning but when he gets knocked down. This might be the haymaker that makes Roman and this club.

Fucking Good. We've got youngsters with real talent who aren't going to get a real shot whilst we're chasing the latest foreign tart who gives us a glimpse of her thong. We might get a chance to rebuild and rebuild properly rather than patching up the ship's leaks like we have been doing. Bayern and Barca both missed out on the CL in the last decade and took that chance to reassess and rebuild. If people want to keep bringing up Liverpool, then maybe they should acknowledge this year's Champions of Germany and Champions of Spain.

The problem is that for a while now there have been plenty of fans happy to slate the club for overspending. When we actually look to acquire young players with promise then they object. Fortunately the club seems to be following the new direction they took recruiting Lukaku, Courtois, De Bruyne etc. by targetting Shaw before his price skyrockets.