The only place to be

Sure we can...but will we?

Exactly, but do we have the impetus to utilise it? Champions League football has to be the target this year. There were people saying that we should go for the Europa League because the coefficient mattered!! That type of thinking led to us playing Mata on the Thursday before the Man City game. But if we do miss out on the CL, I don't think it would be the end of the world. I actually have faith in the squad that we have to mount a challenge next year. Some people might want to call me naive for thinking that, but I do. I think we could follow the example set by Bayern in 2007 who completely re-thought what they were doing as a club. Two Champions League Finals in the last three years is pretty good. If we make the Champions League then maybe we do change what we've been doing. That would be great. Or maybe the club sees it as validation of what they spent the last decade doing and does it again. Did finishing sixth in the league last year change anything? Are we a better club because of that, or did we all go to the Megastore and get our photo taken with the CL Trophy and ignore the sixth-placed finish? We sing Champions of Europe, We Know What We Are. How about Sixth Best Team in England? Because that's what we are as well. Twenty Five Points behind the Manchester clubs THAT'S WHAT WE ARE.

Actually the lyrics are 'The Only Place To Be Every Other Saturday Is Strollin' Down The Fulham Road'. The Champions League is a great competition, but it isn't the be all and end all. Going to matches to have fun with your mates is what supporting this club is about - some people need to remember that, some people need to learn that. This club doesn't cease to exist if we don't get CL football and to those who think it does, you won't be missed. Because I thought that the Top Four was a must. Part of me still does, but look at the club. We're a mess and sometimes you need to hit rock bottom to realise what you're actually doing to yourself. Maybe a year out of the CL gives us a chance to reflect on what we're doing and do it better. I'd like Jose to come back, but first and foremost I want a manager who will build a better Chelsea. He isn't the only one who might be capable of that. The doom-mongers and naysayers might say it would be disastrous, but it could be the making of us like it was for Bayern and Barca. I've seen those very same people throw this team under the bus at half-time during a match, only for us to win it. Most of them don't have a clue what this club actually is and have no investment in it beyond the start of next season. But we have the makings of a great club, with a sustainable future. We just need the will to take that chance and sometimes you need circumstances to force you to take a different route rather than relying on yourself to do it. Imagine going to a match next season and maybe not hearing that CL music, but seeing a team with Lukaku, Chalobah, De Bruyne, Cole and Mata lining up. Imagine going to a game excited to see the future on display, rather than consoling yourself with snippets of youth cup action on Chelsea TV. That to me is exciting.

It's easy to say things like 'delusional' and 'naive' but backing them up is trickier. We aren't Liverpool. We aren't Arsenal. We have a fantastic wealth of young talent and experienced players. Bayern missed out on the CL in 2007 and reassessed what they were doing. Why not compare us to them instead of Liverpool?

Very nicely put. Doesn't actually mean anything though. I can see the case for Buck going but I personally think the problems started before Gourlay and Emenalo took up their roles and I like the changes we've made since they actually took over. Do you have any specific reasons for wanting them gone? Also, do you still think the author nailed it and thus want Roman gone?

So we don't get Jose. So fucking what? If he loves the club then he comes back, if he doesn't then we move on. This CL or nothing mentality is fucking us up as a club. It's been the reason for us to patch up this sinking ship rather than build something better for years. Yes we won the Champions League last year, but we finished 6th in the league. There were at least 5 teams better than us in the league last year. There were 5 teams in England better at building a football club than us. We won a cup competition but lost a league by 25 POINTS. 25 POINTS. TWENTY FIVE POINTS.

But Champions League football hasn't done much to improve our managerial hirings in the past has it? The expectations are too high. I believe that if we miss out in the CL we can still win the league next year. I think it gives us a clean break to reassess what we're doing and try and build a club properly.

You call Gourlay and Emenalo over-promoted, but I'm not at the point where I blame them for the state we're in. I see our problems as being in the makings before they actually reached their positions. In fact I think they've both done good things. I think Gourlay's done good work in the commercial side (which is his job) and I think Emenalo needs some of the credit for the change in direction regarding our transfer and recruitment policy. If you look at the signings made under his tenure, then I don't know if you could make a case that he's either been over-promoted or deserving of the sack. In fact there's been a greater emphasis on long-term planning since both men took their current positions, although you may think the credit needs to go elsewhere. I think they are easy scapegoats in many respects. It's a given that we want the manager out so we can't have a go at him. He's gone. But then there's got to be someone above him to blame, right? Well we can't demand Roman leaves (most of us won't) because he bankrolls us right now. So who's left? I think Buck is the exception. I like the guy and I admire the stand he took in the Terry case but I don't know if he brings enough to the role, although the role is somewhat limited. From a PR and organisational point of view, I'd love us to get someone like Lord Coe in there (I've mentioned this elsewhere) but I'll admit I have no idea on the feasibility of such a move.

I wouldn't be against him firing Buck. I've long said it would be brilliant if we could attract someone like Lord Coe to be chairman but a lot of what is wrong at this club was started with different people in charge. Hiring Kenyon again just to fire him wouldn't be worth it. Management is the key area and if we don't have the pressures of CL football or the 'dressing room influence' of certain players then we could try a younger manager again, like Martinez or Laudrup. This is kinda what I see. We're split between two different roads forward - the safe one where just qualifying for the CL is enough so you stick with older players in familiar roles, and the riskier one where you give untested youths (or even tested ones) a chance and try new things. The reality is that the former isn't working too well right now. In the summer, we all pretty much agree we need a new striker and midfielders. Now imagine if we don't get into the CL and people like Falcao or even Modric (outside bet I know) turn us down. What do we do? Maybe we look at less glamourous signings like Benat or Isco, or maybe we just look at what we already have and go forward with Lukaku, De Bruyne and Chalobah. Rather than signing 27 year olds to gaffa tape a system together that doesn't work, we look to 20 year olds to build something new and sustainable? Then there's also precedent set for when Feruz and Boga start to come through the academy. Yes we'd miss out on the money but the increase in PL tv revenue will cover part of that so maybe there isn't a better time to start the process.

I understand perfectly, and that might force us to use the likes of Lukaku and De Bruyne and even Chalobah. Bayern went through this in 2007 and they've come out of it pretty well haven't they? It might give us the chance to build properly, rather than trying to repair a ship built in 2005. As I've sad elsewhere, it might give us a chance to lose some of the deadwood in both the club and the support.

So I'm totally clueless because I suggested to you in another thread that maybe missing out on the CL might not be the worst thing in the world? At least have the bottle to say what you mean.

When you sit and think about it, the idea of us maybe getting rid of some players and being forced to play the likes of Chalobah, Lukaku, Azpi, De Bruyne, maybe Courtois (selling Cech could cover some of the CL shortfall), Piazon and maybe even Feruz could be damn exciting. A whole crop of youngsters being given the chance to build a new Chelsea, where 5 players don't hold all the power in the locker room.

Fair enough. Personally I'm starting to think missing out on the Champions League might be the best think that could happen to this club long-term. The obsession with it has masked a lot of deficiencies and been an impediment to slow, sustainable growth. We finished 6th for last year for fuck's sake. A year out might cost us a couple of players, but we'll keep most of them and we might even be forced to give players like Lukaku and De Bruyne a chance - imagine that, young players with bags of talent being included in the team. A true champion is tested not when he's winning but when he gets knocked down. This might be the haymaker that makes Roman and this club.

Fucking Good. We've got youngsters with real talent who aren't going to get a real shot whilst we're chasing the latest foreign tart who gives us a glimpse of her thong. We might get a chance to rebuild and rebuild properly rather than patching up the ship's leaks like we have been doing. Bayern and Barca both missed out on the CL in the last decade and took that chance to reassess and rebuild. If people want to keep bringing up Liverpool, then maybe they should acknowledge this year's Champions of Germany and Champions of Spain.

The problem is that for a while now there have been plenty of fans happy to slate the club for overspending. When we actually look to acquire young players with promise then they object. Fortunately the club seems to be following the new direction they took recruiting Lukaku, Courtois, De Bruyne etc. by targetting Shaw before his price skyrockets.

At the end of the day, Roman has the biggest yes vote in the room. For months now we've heard from other fans how some of our supporters are afraid to criticise the owner for fear of him walking away. I'm not too sure they aren't true. If you subscribe to the view that he has yes men in Gourlay and Emenalo then you have to acknowledge that he hired them, ergo he must like having yes men around him. If that's the case, why on Earth would you not call for Roman to leave?

Without Abramovich we might never have attracted fans like you though.

If we put a weakened team out in the Europa League then we have a chance. But some people still think a fucking coefficient is worth risking our league position for. :banghead: Anyone who still thinks the Europa League is of any importance is saying that Champions League qualification is not important.

200 appearances. 2 England caps. When do you start to judge a player? Shaw's a guy who has been thrown into a tough situation and held his own against players twice his age. Not just held his own, but been mightily impressive whilst doing it. What do we do? Wait until he's got a couple of England caps and his price has doubled? Which player looked better at 17? Shaw or Bertrand? (The answer is Shaw by the way) Actually, different question. Which one is better right now?

Sit down Nando.

We have Mata and Hazard. What Spurs have is a solid foundation in midfield who put Bale in a position to win the game. We have Lampard, Mikel and Ramires. People saying we should take the Europa League seriously really need to have a word with themselves if they think Champions League qualification is important. Personally, I think we can benefit from missing out on the Champions League - it might force us to cut some of the dead wood in the squad and in the stands.

Is it just Buck you want out? Haven't the current board been making smart moves in the market? Aren't we laying the sins of previous board members at their feet? People want the board out - do any of them have a fucking clue why?

You mean the ones who got sacked for underperforming? Now he's just got to convince the people who pay their hard-earned money to support the club week in and week out.

I'm not writing him off. I'm saying that after 200 appearances he's yet to convince me that he has the potential to be world-class. It's not a bad thing to present an honest opinion of a player and I see you don't actually offer an opinion. Yes he's been patient and yes he's worked hard but that doesn't mean shit unfortunately. It's a tough world out there. But be honest - who do you think has more potential right now and who do showed the more promise at age 17? The fact he's a Chelsea fan is a bonus and he's had good performances in all the games I've seen him in, not just the ones against us.

Here's the thing with the DM position in this league - no-one plays such a similar role to Mikel. I'd throw in Carrick or Scottie Parker's name but by Choulo's narrow description of what a DM should be they're probably be too creative. To be honest I'm fucking bored of arguing about him. But that's the thing - he's the most divisive player we have and for some reason there's a couple of people on the internet willing to make any fucking excuse for him. They see something we mere mortals don't.