The only place to be

Mascherano would've been a good signing, and it's interesting to see that he doesn't rate Mikel. But with the Lukaku and Chalobah situations, it's simply another result of the lack of planning five years ago. These two players, and a few others, need time to develop because we didn't develop players to round out the squad in the past. We're caught between the needs for the future and the needs of the present.

Agree with that, and his range of passing is probably better than the other options we already have in that position. I'm excited to see him kick on for us because we really need someone to take that position by the scruff of the neck and now we have two genuine prospects in Ake and Chalobah which could save us millions of pounds in the transfer market.

Was it a tangent? You said it was a mess from top to bottom so I assumed (perhaps this was my error) that when you meant the top, you meant the person who makes all the big decisions. So when you say the top, do you mean the people just beneath the top who don't have billions of pounds in the bank? Nothing new - they've had that for well over a decade.

My mistake - so do you think he should go? We could put pressure on him with chants and A4 posters. Roman and Rafa have the same syllables and cadence so we could use the same songs.

I don't disagree with any of that. It just amuses me how things change. Avram was the ultimate 'yes man' who colluded with Roman to get Jose sacked and then installed himself in the manager's position, who was booed at home to Arsenal and seen as nothing more than a joke riding the coattails of Jose's legacy to Moscow.... now we're checking the spelling on the banners to welcome him back. Fortunately it'll solve our problems so it's really neither here nor there.

You said it stinks from top to bottom and we need a clearout in the boardroom. Not a single major decision is made without Roman's say-so so the buck stops with him. Now I disagree with your view on the whole which is why I'm not going to call for his head any time soon, but if you truly believe that our problems stem from the top then why on Earth would you ignore the guy with ALL the power. I imagine it would be slightly different if he didn't have those billions in the bank, or we were self-sustainable at our current level or if there was a Sheikh making overtures towards us.

Roman out? Which is weird because he (or his decisions) were booed in his time in charge. Hmm....and Stamford the Lion will be replaced with a live unicorn as club mascot. I'm actually dreading the game on Saturday. West Brom are a tricky side and Long seems to have a good record against us so we really need to get beyond the boys, but I fear it may be worse than ever. Rafa's new 'fuck you' attitude might serve him well in those circumstances.

This was all the result of the 'Chase for Pep'. Hopefully we learn from our mistakes (something I've seen some signs of us doing). The silver lining is that this is perhaps as bad as it can get (touch wood). Have you met my wife?

That's a little unfair. The players still have to do their stuff on the pitch and they haven't done that as much as they should. It's hard to say how much of that is down to the fans. But I've been to matches where the support has lifted the team and we haven't done that in Rafa's time here. I don't know if we've made the team worse but I don't think we can say we've made it better.

Agree. Got forward well as well and I think both goals involved him. I'm a fan of DM's who start off as defenders and move forward rather than converting more creative players into DMs because the first instinct will always be to track back, but he's also got lovely technique on the ball. Definitely looks like he could solve a problem in the double pivot, as does Chalobah.

Agree with most of this. The whole thing felt somewhat cathartic, but it all came out in an uncontrolled manner. He should have addressed these issues more honestly as they came up rather than in the rehearsed, stilted manner he has done. He just doesn't seem to do well with pressure. He should have been more honest and blunt when he got the job, he should have been more honest when the chants started and he should've been more honest when criticising it if he felt that was the right thing to do. Doing it last night was just stupid, but it's all out in the open now so we can move forward in some way. I think he handled himself poorly and should've addressed this stuff earlier and in a more honest fashion. But in regards the chanting, do the players differentiate between the negativity directed at the coach from stuff that might be aimed at them? Look at it from their point of view - they spend their working weeks with this guy and then for maybe 90 minutes a week their exposed to the crowd who may well be chanting abuse at their boss (interim he may be). Does that help their performance? Are we creating the best possible atmosphere to support the players or to force Rafa out of his position? He spoke about people with an agenda and I know you've said the results would've helped him, but there were clearly people going to the games who were going to boo regardless. It's hard to argue with him on that point. And City fans may not criticise Mansoor, but they haven't called for Mancini's head, or any of the staff in between him and the owner. They haven't been put in that position yet so I'm not saying they wouldn't, but at this club, on this very forum people have called for almost everyone at the club to be sacked except one man - the man we all understand made this decision, made the Torres decision, made the Ancelotti decision etc. (although some have said he should go). It's a fair point to raise if you disagree with so many of the things going on at this club, but he gets very little stick.

And I addressed that. Anyone under the age of about 30 hasn't had to support this club through thick and thin because there's been very little thin. Do you disagree with that? The fans who have booed him since day one can't be so thick that they didn't realise that the only way he was going to get sacked before the summer was if the results were so bad there was no other choice. I'm not going to say they wanted us to be in the position we are or that they wanted the team to do badly, but the chants against Rafa don't help the team IN MY OPINION. If you think they do then that's your choice. But choosing to sing them is based on your attitude to adversity. We were put in a shit position when he was hired and every single supporter at home and away had a choice on how to react to that.

Calm down. He said they were fans who supported the club through thick and thin and people of our age (although I'm slightly older than you) have had very little 'thin' in our time supporting the club. In fact in my years it's been very much Kardashian on the thickness scale. My point is that it's not tenure of support that determines who sings these songs, but mentality. Different people react to different things in life based on their attitude. My attitude was shitty at first, but I decided I didn't care about Rafa - all I cared about was Chelsea so I choose to sing songs which support the club and don't single specific people out for criticism or abuse. That's MY choice. Others have made different ones.

They've not been too old to sing in the past. You making generalisations when you don't really have any clue what you're talking about isn't all that helpful. The amazing thing to me is how completely fucking stupid the main chant against Rafa is. We don't care about Rafa, He don't care about us, All we care about is Chelsea FC. Now ignoring the fact that it's got a piss-poor tune, it makes no fucking sense to sing it. The lyrics (such that they are) imply that he may well be coach, but we don't care. All we care about is this club. But singing it and creating a shit atmosphere actively works against the club doesn't it? For those who sing it - do you feel like it drives the club forward? Does it give you the goosebumps that singing Ten Men Went To Mow or Over Land and Sea gives you? And that's the same feeling I had. I didn't want him one second longer than he had to be here, but I wasn't going to boo him before he took charge of his first second of a game because that wasn't in the team's best interests in my opinion. But people turned up with their signs. They actually printed these things out to create a protest environment rather than focusing on supporting the team. He may well be reaping what he sowed, but so are some of our fans. They wanted him gone, and there was only one way that was going to happen. I'm sure they'll now disavow any part in it. And the opposition fans who say they're too cowardly to call for Roman's head because of his money.....it's harder and harder everyday to disprove that.

How do you know that? I've seen teenage lads singing such songs. I've also seen blokes who have supported the club for decades rolling their eyes at these songs.

He's got a point about people having an agenda too. You can see that in this thread where people were preparing the chants before his first game, and I criticised that at the time. I didn't want him before he got the job (like most fans) and I didn't want him to stay one second longer than he has too (like most fans), but in between those two times it served our own long-term needs to support him or at least not give him stick. But people were already bowling out of Fulham Broadway with their little chants and their print-outs of 'Rafa Out'. Now they'll say they just care about the club, but booing the manager wasn't in the best interests of the club in my opinion. The atmosphere has been toxic, not because of Rafa but because of the reaction to Rafa. 1% of life is what happens to you - 99% is how you react to it and when you expect someone to fail then it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. The thing is, I'm not sure if these fans are happy or sad that we're in the state we're in now. There are people in life who enjoy having something to moan about and they certainly have that now. Yes you have a right to voice an opinion once you've forked over that money that you worked hard for (or didn't - no judging) but to me that isn't fun. Going to a football match with the intention of criticising the manager of the team before he's taken charge of his first game (because there is surely no doubt that's what some fans did) isn't fun to me. It isn't entertaining. It isn't what I wanted to do when my dad first took me to see Chelsea. It isn't what he had in mind has a fun day out when he went to the box office on his lunch breaks to get tickets and I simply can't fathom the logic of the fans who tried to make the atmosphere at the Bridge as toxic as they could. Yes they did it for the manager's benefit, but there are players on the pitch who DO hear it, there are fans in the stadium who DO hear it and don't like it and there are fans around the world who DO watch it and must think what the fuck are we actually trying to achieve. Any fan with half a brain knew that Rafa wasn't going before summer unless results got so bad there'd be no other choice. They've very nearly got that now. Where's the champagne?

At least he's finally being honest and addressing this whole thing. No more fucking about, no more avoiding the question about what he said and actually seeming..... human? I've got a bit more respect for him doing this, but it's way too late. The good thing is he's definitely gone by the end of the season at the latest.

Going....... Going...... 5Live now. Described it as resignation presser. Gob......smacked.

I'd say he's already beyond going to Vitesse and there's no permit issues. If he isn't part of the squad then he's probably good enough to go to a Premier League team, or at worst a top Championship team. Physically he seemed to cope extremely well and he's always been technically sound and beautifully composed, but it's the mental side he has to work on.

Fantastic debut and looked at ease amongst decentish opposition. Would love to see him get some time against Steaua. MIght be time to move his profile to the current squad as well. :blue scalf:

I think we might need to keep him around to mentor Mikel.

Good solid performance against pretty toothless opponents, but there were still bright spots. Oscar and Moses were fabulously direct, as was Hazard when he came on. Rami put in a decent shift and got the opening goal, but the standout for me was Ake. Composed but determined, he was excellent distributing the ball and worked hard in defence, cutting out a ball when the defence missed it. It's what games like this should be used for - getting a glimpse of our exciting future and ignoring some of the more depressing aspects of the present (btw, Torres was shit).

Stemmed from good play by......Ake. Beautiful move though.

Ake pretty much just saved a goal. The kid has been fantastic tonight.