

The only place to be
MemberEverything posted by The only place to be
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Actually, you couldn't. That quote is a misnomer because that team wasn't just kids. They had players like Schmiechel, Bruce, Pallister, Irwin, Cantona, Keane and even Kiggs and Sharpe who were all experienced players much like Cech, Terry, Cole, Mikel, Mata, Ivanovic, Cahill and even Luiz would be for us. Again, we need to strike the right balance. I'm not saying we shouldn't be looking in the transfer market, but that we should also be looking at our academy. All those players we want to spend millions of pounds on did come through academies though and we've spent a lot of time and money on identifying and recruiting as many as we can before they join someone else's setup.
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You have an agenda regarding Mourinho and that's fair enough, but really? First you say he's not a good tactician and now you're saying he needs to improve his man-management skills?? Do you want me to start a thread about Michael Jackson so you can criticise his dancing (when he was alive obviously)?
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You say I'm singling out certain examples, but you're doing the exact same thing when talking about United. They've been happy to let players (legends even) leave when they felt they needed to move on. Scholes and Giggs are the exception, not the rule. Who was the famous quote (which I'm paraphrasing) 'you'll never win anything with kids' said about? They let some big players go in the summer before that quote was uttered because they looked at what they had and put their faith in it. We're afraid to do that despite us having as fine a crop of young talent that I can remember including one young lad who I truly believe can be Chelsea and England captain. But he's not won any Champions Leagues yet so he can fuck off can't he.
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That game was almost 20 fixtures ago - since then has he been someone you can look to build around? Is he actually part of the core of our team now? Most fans recognise that the midfield is our biggest weakness, yet he's part of that isn't he? Isn't it our core which is weak? Isn't that what we need to replace because we have all the shiny accouterments surrounding the core but not the core itself. Don't tell me what I do and don't know, especially if you're going to be wrong about it. I think Chalobah is ready, I've long said it. People keep wanting to take things slowly....because that's worked so fucking well with all the other youngsters we've had come through. Ake might still need more time but he stepped up against Boro - why not give him another shot? And Piazon is getting starts for a team who would probably give us a run for our money on current form. I've never thought he was as good as the hype suggested, but he's put in a couple of good shifts and surprised me. Why not give him a shot? As for Lampard's experience - where was that against QPR? Before that game people were saying that he needed to be kept around to tell the young players and the foreign players what certain games meant to this club and it's fans. Google fucking Maps would've done a better job of telling these players what this fixture meant to the club because it was the most pathetic performance I've seen in years. 'Decent in the pivot'. That's the new standard for our midfield is it? Decent. That's what earns you £80k-£100k p/w at Chelsea Football Club in 2013? I won't disagree that he's a good role model, but so is Mata. So is Lukaku. So is Cech. So is Cole. You're at Chelsea - if you can't work out on your own that you need to work harder than the rest then fuck off. I do sometimes wonder how much people believe this stuff to be true, and how much is down to Football Manager. We need to keep Lampard around so we can right-click on his name and make him mentor John Swift. Isn't the flipside of this that we have a person who costs £5 million p/a in the same position as 3-4 youngsters who also play that position for the same amount? That's one more high-priced 35 year old player in front of them. Because god knows you can't win anything with kids (and even if Lamps left we'd still have plenty of experience in Cole, Cech, Mikel, JT, Ivanovic, Cahill, Ba and even Torres). At least having the four of Lampard, JT, Terry and Cole until next season is essential IMO. At this very moment, these four are the soul of our club. No. No they're not. The supporters are. These are very good players without doubt but when they're dead and buried the club will still be here. It was here before any of them arrived too. At some point you have to move on from them and now is a good time to start doing that.
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You'll not get an argument from me regarding Benayoun, Torres and Malouda but surely if you're going to suggest keeping someone around you have to look at the implications of that. You say he offers massive amounts on the field - does he do that consistently enough? I'm not sure. Yes he was great against Everton, but our midfield was god-awful for the first 30 minutes and we were lucky to still be in it. The next game was QPR at home - was he great in that? Everyone wants Frank to stay - but is it best for the club going forward? I'm still not sure.
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I haven't forgotten any of those performances and I've explained that he does well when we're under pressure and exploit teams on the break but I don't think you can win consistently using that tactic. If we want someone who can dictate the tempo then I really don't think Ramires is the man for us. At least two of those games came with him playing on the wing as well. I don't see a future Chelsea team with him as a winger and if I did then I'd get comfortable with the Europa League because that would be our level. What I wish for is for Chalobah to be given the chance because I truly believe he's a better footballer than Ramires. I think he's better technically, I think he has a composure and maturity that Ramires could only dream about and I think the sooner he's in the middle of the park for us the better. Ramires has a great engine and works hard which is why he'll always be loved by the fans, but I'd rather have a player who can move the ball around well and make the other team run around like headless chickens.
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His comments were classic Mourinho. He won't have wanted to win that way and he'll make sure his players know they have to do better in the next round.
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West Brom are not a very good team, and Clarkey didn't have them put enough pressure on the midfield two (Pulis did the same against us). That is Ramires's level apparently and if we're going to keep him around then we have to keep him as a back-up and look to replace him either from within or in the market. As for Watford, I think Ramires would probably look okay but I actually rate Chalobah's technical capabilities higher than Ramires. He has a composure that Ramires simply doesn't and you might say that's down to the opposition he faces, but I disagree. He's shown it at every level he's played at. Combine that with his workrate and physical presence and I would be absolutely comfortable with us flogging Ramires and replacing him in the squad/team with Chalobah.
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How much should the club commit to a bench player per year? £5 million? That's in addition to the £20 million (plus wages) we're going probably end up spending on his replacement. Why does the club need him around if we're transitioning to the 'next level'? If we're going to stick with the 4231 (which Mourinho played last night) then is Lampard and effective playmaker? I don't think he is. I don't think he's the type of passer we need in that position - yes he can spray the ball around but I don't think that's what you want in that position. If we're talking about transition, then why don't we look at the players we already have like De Bruyne, Chalobah, Ake, Piazon and maybe even Oscar? When you start a new job, do you want the old guy sticking around? I think he's a good role model, but we seem to have players with the right attitude coming through like Mata and Lukaku. Yes the Everton game was great but that was almost 20 games ago - the game after that was a 1-0 defeat to QPR which Frank started in. Has there been a game since where he's given a great performance? Stoke away maybe but they were woeful in midfield. I'd love him to stick around for years but the question of what best serves the club needs to be asked. And the same will go for JT next year.
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Just watching that interview now and I'm beaming. He's just such a great guy, a lot like Drogba was. Humble. I really want this guy to be a success at this club not just because he's a young talent but because I like to see guys like him succeeding, and succeeding at Chelsea. When you listen to how he approaches the game, he's already a role model for the kids in the academy and to see him make it here would surely send the right signals to them.
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The problem with Lamps is that he costs a fair whack, he's in a position that we need to strengthen in because he really doesn't fit there and there are young players who deserve chance. So you have to ask is he worth the amount he'd cost coming off the bench when we need a goal? Does he offer enough off the pitch and in terms of leadership on the pitch? Games like QPR and Southampton suggest not as much as some might think. I agree with you about Ramires and Mikel, but there in the same boat as Lamps for me. Good bench options but if we need to strengthen in the areas they currently play in, might we be better off cashing in now?
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So you wouldn't want to spend money in the summer replacing him then? I actually think most of our problems come from that midfield two, be it him, Ramires or Mikel. We need someone who can keep possession and allow the likes of Mata and Oscar to create stuff. He's not good enough defensively against the big teams either.
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Does Frank Lampard fit into the team well at the moment? Is he a good fit in the double pivot?
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Thank god I'm not the only one. I've met him only very briefly and I agree - decent bloke. Surprisingly imposing as well which is a little different from the majority of refs who are kinda weedy with the obvious exception being Phil Dowd. Webb's got a good physical presence but doesn't tend to talk down to the players and tries to let the game flow as much as possible. Could make for a good game.
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He's still underrated in my opinion. He's England's greatest left-back, he's probably been the best England player over the last decade and there's a good case for him being our greatest ever player. That might sound strong, but I can't think of any other Chelsea player who has been the best in their position in the world over a number of seasons.
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I might get slaughtered for this, or reminded of great injustices but I think Webb is probably the best ref we have. He can let games run and is never in a rush to book a player. He tries to manage games so he doesn't become a factor in them.
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Howard Webb appointed ref.
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I don't know if many people want him to leave, but I don't know many who would have him in their first XI for next season and think we could win the league. As a player who could come off the bench when we're winning in the 70th minute, a bit like Mikel did on Saturday in the 90th, then sure why not. Maybe he even gets starts against the weaker teams, but beyond that I'm not sure. Honestly, I've already got him pencilled behind Chalobah for a position in the midfield.
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I don't think anyone would say he isn't a decent enough player to look competent, good even, against Boro and West Brom (if we ignore how close we came to conceding against a West Brom team who were pretty toothless). Or maybe they just focussed more on the performances of Chalobah and Ake in the last week - I find it has a calming effect if you catch yourself thinking about Mikel, Lamps or Ramires.
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The Next Manager?
The only place to be replied to The only place to be's topic in Matthew Harding Stand
And when we've lost a few matches we can sack Moyes and put Hiddink in charge. -
See I can see where you're coming from, but sometimes you have to look at a player's ceiling and how good they could be. We spent £20 million on a 21 year old - you're always buying potential at that age so you can't then make decisions based on him only having potential. We're also ignoring the Champions League games where he's scored 5 goals from open play in 6 matches, and gave what I think is the performance of the season against Juventus. Mata at his absolute best is probably close to where he is now. I truly believe Oscar has the potential to be the best player in the world. Yes they could share time but in crunch games I'd definitely be looking to start Oscar in the middle and build the whole team around him. In that scenario we still need Mata and I'd put him on the right-wing but he needs to work on his defending and that's what any new coach should focus on in the summer. If we're not going to use Oscar like that and we're simply going to use him as a winger then we should sell him now. I'm a football fan first and foremost and I really don't want us to ruin or under-utilize what could be a once in a generation talent simply because we're focusing on the short-term once again.
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The view that I take, is that Oscar has the potential to be one of the best players in the world. Already he's shown glimpses of just how good he can be especially in the Champions League, but also at international level. Now that's not say say Mata hasn't been great for us because he has but this is about incorporating both players into the same team whilst getting the best from each of them. If we're going to look at Oscar as a player we're going to keep around then I think we have to make a commitment to him and build the team around him. That's a gamble, but one I think has a tremendous upside and also allows Mata to play on the wing still. What Mata needs to do in that instance is work on his workrate and perhaps even his fitness. How many match threads do people make comments about him needing to be rested because he looks a bit tired? I'd say at least 35-40% of them. At some point that stops being a quirk and starts becoming a hinderance - the same hasn't been said anywhere near as much about Oscar. I would say this is another of our first-world problems like the Cech/Courtois debate but this is much more fundamental to the way the team is going to play in the next 5 years. We're talking about the heartbeat of the team here and which player serves us best going forward. We spent £20 million on Oscar's potential - at some point you actually have to try and turn that potential into reality and I think the game against West Brom showed just what he can do. Yes he should've finished those chances but it was encouraging to see him get in those positions, arriving late into the box, splitting defenders and finding space and even creating his own shooting opportunities from the edge of the area. Maybe it's something we leave until the summer, but at some point we are going to have to choose especially if we get a coach like Jose who likes players to do their jobs defensively with the odd exception.
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I've said before that the CL win papered over cracks, but I wouldn't take a single thing over that moment in Munich. Seeing people I love experience something they never thought they'd see when they were fearing for the future of this club a few decades ago..... You can blame Lamps all you want but ANYONE who has any experience of a job or a boss knows that there are two people in an employer/employee relationship and AVB handled things wrong. But that's what young, inexperienced people do. What separates the winners from the losers is how they recover from those mistakes in the future. He may well benefit in the long-term from acknowledging his errors. He's working with a different calibre of player in a different environment. But on the field he's abandoned the reckless high line for a more measured version. The thing is that you ask what he's done different - what's the difference between this season and last season under Harry? Isn't it like one point? It isn't as unlikely as Spurs winning them in the slightest. RDM wasn't backed by everyone either - Roman wanted Pep and was almost certainly going to take a run at him this summer. We'll see. That's slanderous bollocks to throw at some of the players who have served this club well. I may have issues about Lamps's suitability for a role at this club next season but what you're saying is going beyond that. Regardless, he is responsible. He'd say the same thing if he was honest because he's the first-team coach. Giving him a free pass on some of the responsibilities that the title 'manager' entails is pointless.
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Let's just ignore that whole Munich thing. I'm finding it hard to adequately convey what it's like for a human being to try a new role in a new environment for the first time. When we struggle, we are capable of learning from these experiences and not repeating them down the line (yes, even six months down the line). The expectations at the start of the season were to win the league and defend the CL. To try and say that Spurs's expectations are the same as our's is either disingenuous or naive and you're not the latter. Sure. And at least two of those will be sacked at the end of the season. In fact all three could finish above AVB and still be sacked - he's there next season if he finishes 5th. He had a team capable of winning the Champions League and failed to manage them adequtely. That isn't just the JTs and Franks of the squad, but the Lukakus and McEachrans. Look at how he wasted a whole year of Josh's career because he said he would use him and then let him rot - now look at how he's developing. But I'll give him credit for spotting Lukaku's talent for playing on the right-wing Hiring someone like AVB was the right move. But he wasn't ready and he fucked up - sacking him was the right decision and it led DIRECTLY to the greatest night in this club's history.
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He's going in May. He confirmed as much on Wednesday. It was encouraging to see the fans in good voice yesterday and not just on Rafa's back. I, like the media apparently, anticipated that it would be far worse than it was but the fans weren excellent.