The only place to be

Exactly. Ake looked better and better last season yet this season he's not got a single look-in. To me that is the worst thing you could do to his development. What exactly are young players at our club supposed to aspire to? Especially when the fans of their club dismiss anything they do as unimportant because they haven't done it for Chelsea?

People in here are not naive when it comes to youth academies and have reasonable expectations. Okay. Enjoy.

If there's little will to bring youth through to the first team, what is the point in having an academy? We might as well just buy players at 18 and not bother with our own production line.

Wonder if we could parlay the Mutu compensation into this deal, maybe let the issue drop as part of the transfer. Personally don't like dealing with this club though. Everything about them is rotten from their dirty past to their fans who just piss me off for some reason. The less with have to do with Juve, the better.

That's not accurate. He's had good games and bad games, so even his harshest critic would only call him inconsistent. I can point to games where he's been good as well. What did he do? Piss in your pint once? Sorry about that.

Why's that?

Honestly I think that's a bit off when you look at what was said. It's a very English thing to mock people's nationalities. We call the Welsh sheep-shaggers and it's nothing but banter. Again, this particular mod has a blind spot for blokes just having a bit of banter - he can't take it, he can't judge it and that's not necessarily his fault but on a forum about an English club I think you have to allow for a bit of leeway with cultural differences.

You think West Ham at home will defend?

He proved himself at Championship level though. I see no point in sending him back to a club on EXACTLY the same level when he could be part of our squad. He plays in a position in which we're desperate for reinforcements, but Mourinho has decided to go in a different direction. If this kid can't make it then what chance do others have? Maybe that's what the future of this club is. It used to be that players would come through the ranks and the supporters would have a connection with them, but that type of thing isn't important when your first priority is a worldwide tv audience. Who gives a fuck about a 'local guy done good' when the local fans simply aren't that important anymore.

That amassing striking talent isn't generally the best way to win trophies. Building a strong team with a strong foundation is, and if we actually focussed on doing that then we could have success with the striking talent we already have. Adding Falcao to our team doesn't solve the biggest problem - the midfield.

I'm not sure who is to blame, but the culture at the club seems to be against promoting youth which is amazing considering the investment in the academy. At this moment in time, I don't think it's a stretch to say we have one of the best (if not the best) academies in terms of age-level teams. We seem to have a fear of throwing them into the team and I'm not sure where that comes from. There are a few posters who argue that players 'aren't ready' over and over so maybe the club is worried about losing fans if players under- perform.....I'm not sure. And maybe this is what the modern Chelsea is....to me that's rather boring. There's nothing better than seeing young players come into the team and prove their worth, but if results are all that matter then that's a tough sell. Personally I don't think results are all that matter and maybe I'm in the minority. Yes we won the Champions League, but I'm sure it would be more satisfying to show some ambition and try and be the best team in Europe rather than simply relying on luck to win a trophy. Barcelona of the last few years will be remembered as one of the all-time great. Liverpool of the 80s and United of the 90s were all-time greats.....we have the infrastructure to build one of the great teams but I don't think we will until we actually have some patience, take some risks and BUILD something rather than buying it off the shelf. Sadly I think you're right.

I disagree. What he is at the moment in inconsistent at times, but he has phenomenal potential. It's astounding to me that we have this talent in our club and we won't give him a chance until he's 'ready', but we've been following the same model of development for the best part of a decade and not brought anyone through. There's an astounding lack of patience to allow young players to get minutes, make mistakes but grow and I honestly can't work out where it has come from. Maybe we're too 'successful' to bother with player development and we're nothing but a chequebook team.

Would've been ideal when he left Fulham, but I can't see Spurs selling him to us after Willian, Oscar, AVB, the CL Win....and two decades of generally dicking on them. :blue scalf:

Modern football should just ignore all the kicking a ball around bit. Let's just start the season by having a cheque-writing contest. Whoever can write the biggest cheque wins, because all these arguments about developing players and then having to sit through them having some bad games is just too much trouble. And I would love to see us give those young players a chance like that at Anfield because I believe in those guys, and that's the type of environment in which they'd prove their mettle. Relying on the old guard and not giving youth a chance is what saw us finish in sixth in 2012.

Why don't we try and develop top players though? Why haven't we given the likes of Lukaku and Chalobah a chance to bed in? There's such a desire for trophies that no-one really gives a fuck about the future of this club. They just want immediate success. There's a middle ground between us and Arsenal, where we spend money and develop young talent - unfortunately Arsenal seem to have realised this as well which is why they're doing so well so far. There's so much more satisfaction to be had from developing talent rather than just buying it. Of course we could win the title this year just by throwing money at it and there would be plenty of supporters who would love that, but it's empty.

Another graduate of the Kevin Keegan school of coaching? Lukaku, Torres and Ba would've been enough striking power to win the title if the midfield was better. Buying Falcao is only slightly more sensible than buying another AM.

So if it means nothing what is the point? No offence mate, but I couldn't give a fuck. How many of the teams above us have two past-it strikers and one never-was? Lukaku is the best goalscorer that we own. He's also got the most potential but we sent him on loan rather than give him the chance. Now I don't know why the club is so gutless in this regard and I don't know if the fans who defend their deals are the cause or a result of their thinking but it's completely anathema to what I understand supporting a club is. Shouldn't supporters want to see clubs BUILDING a team that they can support? At the moment we seem to have a not inconsiderable number of voices who live from transfer window to transfer window to see which shiny new toys we get to play with, rather than sticking with young men who want to play for this club. We literally have the choice between a young Chelsea supporter who just happens to be one of the brightest prospects in Europe and who has scored as many goals this season as the striker for the team in first place (and more than any of our strikers has scored), or a guy who went to fucking Monaco to play in front of one man and his dog.

So if playing for these teams doesn't mean anything, why are we sending him on loan there? If he doesn't have the tactical sense to fit Mourinho, wouldn't he be better served playing under a manager like Mourinho? Someone who looks like Mourinho, sounds like Mourinho, smells like Mourinho and MIGHT EVEN BE CALLED JOSE FUCKING MOURINHO??? Oh yeah, Martinez.

How do we develop 'top class players on peak' without giving the kids a chance to grow in the team? Spend more money? Which team is top of the league? Who is the top scorer in the league?

In what way? We must be the only club who could say that a striker who has scored the same number of goals as Rooney and Giroud 'isn't ready'. At some point the club has to have the balls to give youngsters a chance but there's a fear and that seems to emanate from a certain section of the support.

About 180 degrees opposite what Watford fans were saying. He's only there until January and right now it doesn't look like it'll be extended.

I'd say the player we actually needed was someone like De Rossi - a proven leader. At £25 million this deal actually makes a lot of sense (comparable to the prices paid for Fellaini, Luiz, Toure etc.) but £40 million is a big step up. But maybe he becomes our Javi Martinez - comparable price and in a similar position in their careers....urgh. This is just one of those transfers where you cover your eyes and hope it works out for the best. It's not a Courtois where you end up buying a world-class player on the cheap and boast about it. If we sign him, let us never disclose the figure and never even guess the numbers involved. Let's all just look at his pretty hair and pray to fuck that he isn't shit.

So it's looking increasingly like this loan deal has been a failure. Forest fans aren't too impressed with him, he hasn't looked all that interested and I think we're well on the way to fucking his development. Stars in the youth team, goes to Watford, impresses for the majority of the season, comes back to Chelsea and.....goes back out on loan to another Championship club who really aren't much better than the one he was at last season. Young players can't be trusted in the first team because they 'aren't ready', but we follow the same blueprint of 'development' with every single one of them. It's fucking insane.

He's roughly the same age as Makelele was when we signed him. He's proven in this league and he's worked under Jose. I can't imagine he'd be much more than a quarter of Witsel's price too. Nat should've been developing in the Premier League this season, and like Lukaku I think it should've been with us rather than sticking with Essien/Mikel/Ba/Eto'o. Instead we're being linked with Witsel and Falcao - the twin stars of the Russian and French leagues respectively (except they're not because Hulk and Ibra probably are). He's a good player but he's in far too inferior a competition to say he's best in the world. Yes he's looked good for Belgium but they're an exceptional team right now. A few months ago you'd get a few people saying Paulinho was the player we needed but he's had a few struggles (he also cost £17 million which is less than HALF what Witsel is being quoted at - there's just no value in this transfer). I don't think Alonso will leave after the Khedira injury and that's a shame. There is just so much risk associated with this transfer and the price is absurd. I just can't keep thinking of other transfers that make us look like we're overpaying (Fellaini, proven in the league and over £10 million cheaper) whilst marginalising our own developments. Maybe that's a consequence of neglecting the midfield for so long but I think I'd be happier sticking with Mikel until next summer.

I have major doubts because we fucked him over this season. I mentioned it in another thread but I think one could make a case for almost every young player either stagnating or regressing since Jose came into the club (yes it's a short time, yes there are factors etc.). The age thing is why I'd love us to get Alonso. He knows the league, he knows Mourinho, he's proven at the highest level and he would compliment our young players fantastically. Witsel is a good player but we're paying over the odds for someone who went from the Belgian leagues, to the Portuguese league, to the Russian league. He'd cost over DOUBLE the price Spurs paid for Dembele. In fact the rumoured price is essentially the same as Yaya Toure PLUS Dembele.