dee25

He has to thank mikel for that. When he was put under pressure, he could pass to mikel and he dealt with the ball under pressure like a boss 

I have to agree with this. Mikel's performance vs Munich is often hailed as some kind of masterclass. But it really wasn't. Munich were far too dominant to make such a claim. He did well, with a couple strong plays, but it wasn't a great performance. It's not like he shut down any of their players and he wasn't a dominant force in midfield by being a step ahead of his opponents either.

It is but I'm very lenient with Hazard. I will always make excuses for him.
We are a team that plays terrible football and creates very few goalscoring opportunities; a team that for the most part is in complete disarray throughout games. No style or structure, just shit on a stick football every week without fail.

That doesn't make sense though. A one year loan is a one year lone. You know he's gone after a year even before you pick up the phone to make the call or whatever.
Every club send players out on loan. Those who do well play, those who don't do well don't pay. Cheap squad depth definitely but if that player helps you club finish higher on the table, you play him.
My problem with loans is when they're sent to a different club every year or to a club with 3 or 4 'home' (experienced) options in the player's position.

This whole 'bottler' label is really confirmation bias at its finest. That's not to say that Cesc hasn't been playing poorly, clearly he has. But it seems like right from the start some people have been waiting and watching him closely for the slightest sign that confirms their suspicions. Looking at the team's performances in big games or in the 2nd half of the season, Cesc hasn't been any worse than the other players but yet no one else gets labelled "a choker". Why? Because folks here already have a preconceived idea about Cesc and selectively see things that affirm the label of him being a bottler.
He's being treated unfairly by some on here and I think people really get it into their heads that the team in general is playing poorly. To start singling out players is absurd. Cesc, Oscar, Costa, even Matic. The team overall has been poor and it doesn't come down to just one player.

This whole 'bottler' label is really confirmation bias at its finest. That's not to say that Cesc hasn't been playing poorly, clearly he has. But it seems like right from the start some people have been waiting and watching him closely for the slightest sign that confirms their suspicions. Looking at the team's performances in big games or in the 2nd half of the season, Cesc hasn't been any worse than the other players but yet no one else gets labelled "a choker". Why? Because folks here already have a preconceived idea about Cesc and selectively see things that affirm the label of him being a bottler.
He's being treated unfairly by some on here and I think people really get it into their heads that the team in general is playing poorly. To start singling out players is absurd. Cesc, Oscar, Costa, even Matic. The team overall has been poor and it doesn't come down to just one player.

Completely agree with this Styles. I've had my share of criticisms of him as well but there are too many individuals playing poorly - whether it's the tactics, exhaustion, inability to cope with the pressure, lack of quality, or a combination of all these.....I really don't know but the team is not looking good at all and it's very unfair to start labelling Cesc as a bottler given these circumstances. As you rightfully said, he should be cut some slack. Same with Costa.

This whole 'bottler' label is really confirmation bias at its finest. That's not to say that Cesc hasn't been playing poorly, clearly he has. But it seems like right from the start some people have been waiting and watching him closely for the slightest sign that confirms their suspicions. Looking at the team's performances in big games or in the 2nd half of the season, Cesc hasn't been any worse than the other players but yet no one else gets labelled "a choker". Why? Because folks here already have a preconceived idea about Cesc and selectively see things that affirm the label of him being a bottler.
He's being treated unfairly by some on here and I think people really get it into their heads that the team in general is playing poorly. To start singling out players is absurd. Cesc, Oscar, Costa, even Matic. The team overall has been poor and it doesn't come down to just one player.

This whole 'bottler' label is really confirmation bias at its finest. That's not to say that Cesc hasn't been playing poorly, clearly he has. But it seems like right from the start some people have been waiting and watching him closely for the slightest sign that confirms their suspicions. Looking at the team's performances in big games or in the 2nd half of the season, Cesc hasn't been any worse than the other players but yet no one else gets labelled "a choker". Why? Because folks here already have a preconceived idea about Cesc and selectively see things that affirm the label of him being a bottler.
He's being treated unfairly by some on here and I think people really get it into their heads that the team in general is playing poorly. To start singling out players is absurd. Cesc, Oscar, Costa, even Matic. The team overall has been poor and it doesn't come down to just one player.

This whole 'bottler' label is really confirmation bias at its finest. That's not to say that Cesc hasn't been playing poorly, clearly he has. But it seems like right from the start some people have been waiting and watching him closely for the slightest sign that confirms their suspicions. Looking at the team's performances in big games or in the 2nd half of the season, Cesc hasn't been any worse than the other players but yet no one else gets labelled "a choker". Why? Because folks here already have a preconceived idea about Cesc and selectively see things that affirm the label of him being a bottler.
He's being treated unfairly by some on here and I think people really get it into their heads that the team in general is playing poorly. To start singling out players is absurd. Cesc, Oscar, Costa, even Matic. The team overall has been poor and it doesn't come down to just one player.

This whole 'bottler' label is really confirmation bias at its finest. That's not to say that Cesc hasn't been playing poorly, clearly he has. But it seems like right from the start some people have been waiting and watching him closely for the slightest sign that confirms their suspicions. Looking at the team's performances in big games or in the 2nd half of the season, Cesc hasn't been any worse than the other players but yet no one else gets labelled "a choker". Why? Because folks here already have a preconceived idea about Cesc and selectively see things that affirm the label of him being a bottler.
He's being treated unfairly by some on here and I think people really get it into their heads that the team in general is playing poorly. To start singling out players is absurd. Cesc, Oscar, Costa, even Matic. The team overall has been poor and it doesn't come down to just one player.

Atkinson didn't give a foul for the Barnes tackle, right? Which means he can still be suspended? Looking at the challenge, the witch hunt should be three times the size of the one Costa suffered. Somehow I have this nagging feeling that won't be the case.

Completely agree with this Styles. I've had my share of criticisms of him as well but there are too many individuals playing poorly - whether it's the tactics, exhaustion, inability to cope with the pressure, lack of quality, or a combination of all these.....I really don't know but the team is not looking good at all and it's very unfair to start labelling Cesc as a bottler given these circumstances. As you rightfully said, he should be cut some slack. Same with Costa.

I was one of Fabregas' biggest critics earlier in the season, but I'm cutting him some slack because while I do agree that he is playing poorly so are most of the players . The entire team hasn't played consistently for several weeks. We've had one or two decent performances this calendar year; everything other game has been a real struggle with mostly terrible football on display.

This whole 'bottler' label is really confirmation bias at its finest. That's not to say that Cesc hasn't been playing poorly, clearly he has. But it seems like right from the start some people have been waiting and watching him closely for the slightest sign that confirms their suspicions. Looking at the team's performances in big games or in the 2nd half of the season, Cesc hasn't been any worse than the other players but yet no one else gets labelled "a choker". Why? Because folks here already have a preconceived idea about Cesc and selectively see things that affirm the label of him being a bottler.
He's being treated unfairly by some on here and I think people really get it into their heads that the team in general is playing poorly. To start singling out players is absurd. Cesc, Oscar, Costa, even Matic. The team overall has been poor and it doesn't come down to just one player.

This whole 'bottler' label is really confirmation bias at its finest. That's not to say that Cesc hasn't been playing poorly, clearly he has. But it seems like right from the start some people have been waiting and watching him closely for the slightest sign that confirms their suspicions. Looking at the team's performances in big games or in the 2nd half of the season, Cesc hasn't been any worse than the other players but yet no one else gets labelled "a choker". Why? Because folks here already have a preconceived idea about Cesc and selectively see things that affirm the label of him being a bottler.
He's being treated unfairly by some on here and I think people really get it into their heads that the team in general is playing poorly. To start singling out players is absurd. Cesc, Oscar, Costa, even Matic. The team overall has been poor and it doesn't come down to just one player.

This whole 'bottler' label is really confirmation bias at its finest. That's not to say that Cesc hasn't been playing poorly, clearly he has. But it seems like right from the start some people have been waiting and watching him closely for the slightest sign that confirms their suspicions. Looking at the team's performances in big games or in the 2nd half of the season, Cesc hasn't been any worse than the other players but yet no one else gets labelled "a choker". Why? Because folks here already have a preconceived idea about Cesc and selectively see things that affirm the label of him being a bottler.
He's being treated unfairly by some on here and I think people really get it into their heads that the team in general is playing poorly. To start singling out players is absurd. Cesc, Oscar, Costa, even Matic. The team overall has been poor and it doesn't come down to just one player.

he had been on bed for three days this week, because he was SICK. So Arsenal fans also predict diseases? Can they give me Brazilian lottery numbers while they're at it?
Also most Arsenal fans don't claim this, it's Barcelona's fans because Cesc had been a key player for Arse in a few second halves of the season (the complaints only started when he started to force his move to Barça, until then, no Arse fan ever said a bad word about Cesc - especially because they have eyes (and memory)). I swear I get as angry about this eternal bullshit on this thread as I get about the fucking robbery today. All come from the same place: incompetence on checking really simple facts, such as a nearly broken leg, two clear penalties and a guy scoring and assisting consistently from January to May in years he wasn't injured...

Wow. I think this is the most off the mark assessment of Hazard I've ever come across, with all due respect. It's almost as if you've never watched him before. That isn't meant as an insult, it's just shocking that a Chelsea fan can say with straight face "Hazard lacks the natural instincts of an attacking midfielder." I can list examples after examples after examples of how wrong this is, hell take the goal we scored against City last weekend. You say that Hazard lacks the ability to asses situations before he gets on the ball but he was actually the one that instructed Ivanovic and pointed to the spot he wanted the ball delivered. Iva didn't switch play to Hazard by his own accord, it was Hazard that facilitated it. When that ball came from Iva, Eden played it first time because he had already seen the goal happen in his head before Iva had even crossed the freaking ball. That's the very definition of 'playmaking' and there are quite literally countless and countless of examples where Hazard has demonstrated this ability.
Hazard isn't perfect. There're areas of his game that he needs to refine but as an attacking midfielder, he's the complete package. He does it all. His decision making might still need some improvement, but saying that he has no "speed of thought" to play in the no. 10 position is conclusively wrong. On all accounts. I think I'm just going to stop here, log off and file this whole conversation under the heading of "bizarre things you read on TC".

The thing is though skipper, every one of those arguments are infinitely more convincing that anything you or others criticizing Oscar have presented.
You say that he hasn't improved much in 3 years, that he won't ever be better than he is now, and that his general play isn't good enough for the standards of this club but whether you choose to accept it or not, the numbers do show a clear progression in terms of creativity so he has improved significantly in this aspect. Saying that he hasn't made any great strides in his development is simply false. Maybe that improvement isn't good enough for your standards, but regardless it's still a significant progression from his first season here.
You then argue that he won't ever be better than he is now. That isn't an argument. That's a hunch. A hunch that could be wrong or that could be right. Either way, it's inconsequential. Di Maria went from a frustrating and inconsistent player one year to being voted in the world XI and Argentina POTY above Messi. It's not such an inconceivable idea that Oscar can still improve and develop into an elite player.
On the subject of his general play, that's a valid argument. But you and others on here act like his general play has been poor all season. That isn't true though. If you scan old comments on this thread starting from August, there were hardly any complaints about Oscar's passing for much of the first half of the season. It wasn't until Spurs away then Newcastle at home that consistent complaints of his sloppy passing began emerging. His general play has been dire recently, but it hasn't been a season long occurrence. Btw, since that game against Newcastle at the Bridge, Oscar has since played 90 mins against Swansea, Bradford, Liverpool, City and then 70 mins against Villa. He's played a lot of games in a short period so it's not out of the realm of possibility that he could be exhausted.
Also, when criticizing Oscar's general play, people fail to realize or note that the team's passing overall has been turgid for a few months now. Matic has been misplacing one too many passes. Cesc has had his share of sloppy games. Even Hazard's general play has dropped significantly when a few months ago, he was unplayable. My point is that, I think you're putting a lot of weight into Oscar's recent performances but that doesn't give an accurate reflection of the way he's performed all season. You're only saying that Willian will do better in that role because he's in form now but Willian hasn't been performing the way he is now all season long.
I think you're an awesome poster and pretty much the sweetest member on here, but I think you've made up your mind about Oscar and you're using a blip of poor performances as justification.

The thing is though skipper, every one of those arguments are infinitely more convincing that anything you or others criticizing Oscar have presented.
You say that he hasn't improved much in 3 years, that he won't ever be better than he is now, and that his general play isn't good enough for the standards of this club but whether you choose to accept it or not, the numbers do show a clear progression in terms of creativity so he has improved significantly in this aspect. Saying that he hasn't made any great strides in his development is simply false. Maybe that improvement isn't good enough for your standards, but regardless it's still a significant progression from his first season here.
You then argue that he won't ever be better than he is now. That isn't an argument. That's a hunch. A hunch that could be wrong or that could be right. Either way, it's inconsequential. Di Maria went from a frustrating and inconsistent player one year to being voted in the world XI and Argentina POTY above Messi. It's not such an inconceivable idea that Oscar can still improve and develop into an elite player.
On the subject of his general play, that's a valid argument. But you and others on here act like his general play has been poor all season. That isn't true though. If you scan old comments on this thread starting from August, there were hardly any complaints about Oscar's passing for much of the first half of the season. It wasn't until Spurs away then Newcastle at home that consistent complaints of his sloppy passing began emerging. His general play has been dire recently, but it hasn't been a season long occurrence. Btw, since that game against Newcastle at the Bridge, Oscar has since played 90 mins against Swansea, Bradford, Liverpool, City and then 70 mins against Villa. He's played a lot of games in a short period so it's not out of the realm of possibility that he could be exhausted.
Also, when criticizing Oscar's general play, people fail to realize or note that the team's passing overall has been turgid for a few months now. Matic has been misplacing one too many passes. Cesc has had his share of sloppy games. Even Hazard's general play has dropped significantly when a few months ago, he was unplayable. My point is that, I think you're putting a lot of weight into Oscar's recent performances but that doesn't give an accurate reflection of the way he's performed all season. You're only saying that Willian will do better in that role because he's in form now but Willian hasn't been performing the way he is now all season long.
I think you're an awesome poster and pretty much the sweetest member on here, but I think you've made up your mind about Oscar and you're using a blip of poor performances as justification.

The thing is though skipper, every one of those arguments are infinitely more convincing that anything you or others criticizing Oscar have presented.
You say that he hasn't improved much in 3 years, that he won't ever be better than he is now, and that his general play isn't good enough for the standards of this club but whether you choose to accept it or not, the numbers do show a clear progression in terms of creativity so he has improved significantly in this aspect. Saying that he hasn't made any great strides in his development is simply false. Maybe that improvement isn't good enough for your standards, but regardless it's still a significant progression from his first season here.
You then argue that he won't ever be better than he is now. That isn't an argument. That's a hunch. A hunch that could be wrong or that could be right. Either way, it's inconsequential. Di Maria went from a frustrating and inconsistent player one year to being voted in the world XI and Argentina POTY above Messi. It's not such an inconceivable idea that Oscar can still improve and develop into an elite player.
On the subject of his general play, that's a valid argument. But you and others on here act like his general play has been poor all season. That isn't true though. If you scan old comments on this thread starting from August, there were hardly any complaints about Oscar's passing for much of the first half of the season. It wasn't until Spurs away then Newcastle at home that consistent complaints of his sloppy passing began emerging. His general play has been dire recently, but it hasn't been a season long occurrence. Btw, since that game against Newcastle at the Bridge, Oscar has since played 90 mins against Swansea, Bradford, Liverpool, City and then 70 mins against Villa. He's played a lot of games in a short period so it's not out of the realm of possibility that he could be exhausted.
Also, when criticizing Oscar's general play, people fail to realize or note that the team's passing overall has been turgid for a few months now. Matic has been misplacing one too many passes. Cesc has had his share of sloppy games. Even Hazard's general play has dropped significantly when a few months ago, he was unplayable. My point is that, I think you're putting a lot of weight into Oscar's recent performances but that doesn't give an accurate reflection of the way he's performed all season. You're only saying that Willian will do better in that role because he's in form now but Willian hasn't been performing the way he is now all season long.
I think you're an awesome poster and pretty much the sweetest member on here, but I think you've made up your mind about Oscar and you're using a blip of poor performances as justification.

The thing is though skipper, every one of those arguments are infinitely more convincing that anything you or others criticizing Oscar have presented.
You say that he hasn't improved much in 3 years, that he won't ever be better than he is now, and that his general play isn't good enough for the standards of this club but whether you choose to accept it or not, the numbers do show a clear progression in terms of creativity so he has improved significantly in this aspect. Saying that he hasn't made any great strides in his development is simply false. Maybe that improvement isn't good enough for your standards, but regardless it's still a significant progression from his first season here.
You then argue that he won't ever be better than he is now. That isn't an argument. That's a hunch. A hunch that could be wrong or that could be right. Either way, it's inconsequential. Di Maria went from a frustrating and inconsistent player one year to being voted in the world XI and Argentina POTY above Messi. It's not such an inconceivable idea that Oscar can still improve and develop into an elite player.
On the subject of his general play, that's a valid argument. But you and others on here act like his general play has been poor all season. That isn't true though. If you scan old comments on this thread starting from August, there were hardly any complaints about Oscar's passing for much of the first half of the season. It wasn't until Spurs away then Newcastle at home that consistent complaints of his sloppy passing began emerging. His general play has been dire recently, but it hasn't been a season long occurrence. Btw, since that game against Newcastle at the Bridge, Oscar has since played 90 mins against Swansea, Bradford, Liverpool, City and then 70 mins against Villa. He's played a lot of games in a short period so it's not out of the realm of possibility that he could be exhausted.
Also, when criticizing Oscar's general play, people fail to realize or note that the team's passing overall has been turgid for a few months now. Matic has been misplacing one too many passes. Cesc has had his share of sloppy games. Even Hazard's general play has dropped significantly when a few months ago, he was unplayable. My point is that, I think you're putting a lot of weight into Oscar's recent performances but that doesn't give an accurate reflection of the way he's performed all season. You're only saying that Willian will do better in that role because he's in form now but Willian hasn't been performing the way he is now all season long.
I think you're an awesome poster and pretty much the sweetest member on here, but I think you've made up your mind about Oscar and you're using a blip of poor performances as justification.

The thing is though skipper, every one of those arguments are infinitely more convincing that anything you or others criticizing Oscar have presented.
You say that he hasn't improved much in 3 years, that he won't ever be better than he is now, and that his general play isn't good enough for the standards of this club but whether you choose to accept it or not, the numbers do show a clear progression in terms of creativity so he has improved significantly in this aspect. Saying that he hasn't made any great strides in his development is simply false. Maybe that improvement isn't good enough for your standards, but regardless it's still a significant progression from his first season here.
You then argue that he won't ever be better than he is now. That isn't an argument. That's a hunch. A hunch that could be wrong or that could be right. Either way, it's inconsequential. Di Maria went from a frustrating and inconsistent player one year to being voted in the world XI and Argentina POTY above Messi. It's not such an inconceivable idea that Oscar can still improve and develop into an elite player.
On the subject of his general play, that's a valid argument. But you and others on here act like his general play has been poor all season. That isn't true though. If you scan old comments on this thread starting from August, there were hardly any complaints about Oscar's passing for much of the first half of the season. It wasn't until Spurs away then Newcastle at home that consistent complaints of his sloppy passing began emerging. His general play has been dire recently, but it hasn't been a season long occurrence. Btw, since that game against Newcastle at the Bridge, Oscar has since played 90 mins against Swansea, Bradford, Liverpool, City and then 70 mins against Villa. He's played a lot of games in a short period so it's not out of the realm of possibility that he could be exhausted.
Also, when criticizing Oscar's general play, people fail to realize or note that the team's passing overall has been turgid for a few months now. Matic has been misplacing one too many passes. Cesc has had his share of sloppy games. Even Hazard's general play has dropped significantly when a few months ago, he was unplayable. My point is that, I think you're putting a lot of weight into Oscar's recent performances but that doesn't give an accurate reflection of the way he's performed all season. You're only saying that Willian will do better in that role because he's in form now but Willian hasn't been performing the way he is now all season long.
I think you're an awesome poster and pretty much the sweetest member on here, but I think you've made up your mind about Oscar and you're using a blip of poor performances as justification.

The thing is though skipper, every one of those arguments are infinitely more convincing that anything you or others criticizing Oscar have presented.
You say that he hasn't improved much in 3 years, that he won't ever be better than he is now, and that his general play isn't good enough for the standards of this club but whether you choose to accept it or not, the numbers do show a clear progression in terms of creativity so he has improved significantly in this aspect. Saying that he hasn't made any great strides in his development is simply false. Maybe that improvement isn't good enough for your standards, but regardless it's still a significant progression from his first season here.
You then argue that he won't ever be better than he is now. That isn't an argument. That's a hunch. A hunch that could be wrong or that could be right. Either way, it's inconsequential. Di Maria went from a frustrating and inconsistent player one year to being voted in the world XI and Argentina POTY above Messi. It's not such an inconceivable idea that Oscar can still improve and develop into an elite player.
On the subject of his general play, that's a valid argument. But you and others on here act like his general play has been poor all season. That isn't true though. If you scan old comments on this thread starting from August, there were hardly any complaints about Oscar's passing for much of the first half of the season. It wasn't until Spurs away then Newcastle at home that consistent complaints of his sloppy passing began emerging. His general play has been dire recently, but it hasn't been a season long occurrence. Btw, since that game against Newcastle at the Bridge, Oscar has since played 90 mins against Swansea, Bradford, Liverpool, City and then 70 mins against Villa. He's played a lot of games in a short period so it's not out of the realm of possibility that he could be exhausted.
Also, when criticizing Oscar's general play, people fail to realize or note that the team's passing overall has been turgid for a few months now. Matic has been misplacing one too many passes. Cesc has had his share of sloppy games. Even Hazard's general play has dropped significantly when a few months ago, he was unplayable. My point is that, I think you're putting a lot of weight into Oscar's recent performances but that doesn't give an accurate reflection of the way he's performed all season. You're only saying that Willian will do better in that role because he's in form now but Willian hasn't been performing the way he is now all season long.
I think you're an awesome poster and pretty much the sweetest member on here, but I think you've made up your mind about Oscar and you're using a blip of poor performances as justification.