Jase

You complain a lot about Ziyech and Werner but ironically want Dybala. For all the hype that he gets, he hasn't really been consistent or great for Juventus per se. And not to mention, he seems to get injured quite a bit and is already 28 years old.

I guess. Only beneficial to win the group so that teams get 2 less games.

UEFA changed the format a little bit but really, that play-off is essentially the same as the Round of 32 that was going on before.

Is trying to just understand something better called smashing now? 🤨

Am questioning more on what Havertz is good at exactly. Surely, there's more than just keeping the flow going for someone that cost 70 million and called a generational talent? And for all the comparison with Firmino, even he has produced a decent amount of goals and assists each season.

It's not just the cost argument. It's also the fact that his talent has been hyped up by people, the media in Germany. So again, pardon me if I'm expecting more out of him. Also, you said all of that while we still have one big elephant in the room yet to be addressed.

And yet, you said Havertz should start along with Werner and Ziyech for the Leeds game in another thread. Didn't you say Mount was only our best player because the others didn't perform? 🤨 Think the main issue is you're way too obsessed with stats...

The thing is, those players didn't cost as much as Havertz did (some of them cost nothing) and they haven't been touted as the next best thing. So while Havertz contributes to the system in general, I also don't think it's crazy to expect more out of him and question what exactly is he good at. And I'm not just asking this about him because we don't have a reliable goalscorer.

So, we paid 70 million for someone to just be another Firmino (someone who cost Liverpool only 30 million)? For me, I think he's doing fine physically. He's been aggressive and shown more willingness to get into physical duels than say Lukaku, who is bigger and looks much more physical than him. It's just that Havertz doesn't quite do enough on the ball. Like when you see him on the ball, you don't really see him do anything WOW (like Hazard did) or say, play defence splitting passes etc.

Petition to ban Fulham Broadway...

I have a question here - what exactly does Havertz specialize in? Yes, he is more refined than Werner or Lukaku. Yes, he helps the team to keep the flow going when leading the line. But what are the things is he exactly good at? Is he good at creating chances? Is he good at scoring? What things exactly? I don't think I'm crazy to expect that he can/should be doing more(?), given we paid 70 million and the fact that he's called a generational talent. They are different players but we bought Hazard for half of that price and some probably called him a generational talent and he always brought the numbers as well as the x-factor. But Havertz? I mean, if we're judging Werner/Lukaku on their goal output, then shouldn't it be the same/similar with Havertz since he's leading the line? If not, what? Was just looking up some stats and Havertz has produced only 6 goals and 4 assists (excluding PKs won) in 41 league games. On top of that, his league xA is only 2.3 (Werner's league xA is 6.3 for example). All this low output kinda pales in comparison to what he produced in the Bundesliga.

If we can only play well when Ziyech and CHO start, then we are seriously fucked. Okay, there were Juventus and Leicester in that run but for the love of god, we played some real horrendous teams - teams that we should be beating if we're being serious - during the run you mentioned. And since people are going all gaga over our injuries right now, you could also say that they did well when we had most key players available compared to now. It's also funny you use stats to drive your agenda when it suits you. If your logic to players starting is goals (and/or assists), then why aren't you saying that Havertz shouldn't be starting considering his last goal was a month ago? Why are you saying CHO should start when he's scored only 1 goal in his last 9 appearances before today? Shouldn't Mount be starting considering he's now scored in 3 consecutive league games or are you gonna ignore that because it's Mount?

It would help of course but is it really as simple as getting our injured players back? Why should how people viewed those games be of concern here? Leicester and Juventus aside, the rest were real scrubs.

Well, probably 6 more months to endure...

Am gonna jinx this but while I don't think we'll fall into a scrap for the Top 4 like the last 4 seasons, you do wonder how many times are we going to get away with these kind of performances. Like, is it sustainable enough to keep up with City and Liverpool? Even when we were winning games earlier this season, there were games where we won because of a clinical finish or two and the same things are happening again recently with worse performances. Our best run of performances came between the end of October and somewhere middle of November but we played some real scrubs during that period. So, yeah.

A taller and worse version of Kovacic. Some times, I wonder if he's more interested in dribbling past players as opposed to making the right passes.

Even when Kovacic and Kante come back, we still gotta find the game time for them and wait for them to get back into form, all this plus the other problems while trying to keep pace with Man City and Liverpool at the top.

A win that papers over the cracks. Next...

Funnily enough, our xG and xGA in the league so far this season are pretty much the same at the same stage last season: We are creating lots of chances but a lot of them have been scored by defenders. Is that sustainable throughout the season? It remains to be seen. Isn't that the downside of basically constantly sacking managers? Whatever the hell Lampard's plan was, he bought Werner, Havertz and Ziyech with an idea in mind. Then of course things changed after he got the sack.

So, it's one from this four: Ajax Real Madrid Bayern Munich Lille Had we finished 1st in the group, would be getting one of these sides: PSG Atletico Sporting Lisbon Inter Benfica Villarreal/Atalanta RB Salzburg

Wolves 0-0 Chelsea PRE/POST-MATCH DISCUSSION, LIVE CHAT AND ANALYSIS 2021/22 Premier League Matchday 18 19th December, Sunday 2021 Molineux Stadium 14:00 Kick Off (UK time)

Chelsea 1-1 Everton PRE/POST-MATCH DISCUSSION, LIVE CHAT AND ANALYSIS 2021/22 Premier League Matchday 17 16th December, Thursday 2021 Stamford Bridge 19:45 Kick Off (UK time)

That's a very kind description.

Should I leave this thread open? 🤣

But Atletico and Barcelona aren't what they used to be. Atletico are having something of an identity crisis and have been awful in Europe for a few seasons now.