Spike
Everything posted by Spike
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Just remember to laugh the same way a dodgey dive goes against Chelsea.
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As long as they aren't dominating the goals.
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Just got off work lads, how is the match? Gimme a quick rundown.
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I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was just extrapolating.
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Point conceded.
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Sorry dude I forgot to respond, I'm pretty drunk. Anyway I got it from an anime I adore (you should check it out) called Cowboy Bebop. The main character is called 'Spike Spiegel'. Spike Lee is alright. Fuck I do miss the ol' day though. When everytyhing was more fun. Stay in touch ya baltic bastard.
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Blackface is also contextual to the culture. In the USA it's very offensive because of it's history, but what if today a white actor portrayed a black character in a reverent manner? People would say that it's racist because they could have hired a black actor but what if that white actor transcends the black face in puts in not only a respectable performance but does so in a way that elevates the character beyond their race? For instance, about a decade ago there was a Jackson Five tribute group in Australia. They wore black face, it's wasn't particularly dignified but they did it because they adored the music. Nobody was offended till Harry Connick Jr. took the moral highground and said 'blah blah blah this is offensive we don't do this in America'. But he was applying his own experience with blackface to the instance not the cultural and artist's intent. Also if you go back and watch cartoons like Felix the Cat, you'll notice that the 'sambo' blackface characters are always the good guys, having a great time, smiling, only to be punished by the white man. Another thing, if you go to Jamaica you'll notice they don't give a fuck, you'll see blackface everywhere.
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I guess I can only call from things from my own experiences. With my experiences I've been able to tell a joke or a hear a joke and understand that is where it ends. I've always been in a multiethnic environment so I've been able to understand when a stereotype is a reality and when it isn't. Personally I think there has to be potential for hatred for it to manifest. Perhaps if the people that you mentioned weren't angry towards other races, they'd be angry towards the upper class or something similar. I think it's a natural instinct to become biased on the basis of 'clans' or 'groups' (derived from geographic location, appearance, beliefs, etc). People love to scapegoat and channel their anger and frustrations into one easily identified subject. I mean it's easy to imagine that 150 years ago instead of 'those bloody pakis' it would have been 'those bloody mancs' or 'those bloody posh bastards'.
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I guess at the end of the day I'm strongly anti-globalism and my laissez faire attitude towards the world can seem apathetic and can manifest itself in debates like this.
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Thinking about it and 'You're racist' is the ultimate insult tbh. It's pretty impossible to deny being racist without the accuser saying something like 'that is what a racist would say' or 'that doesn't make you not racist'. The only recourse for that type of situation is 'prove it' and force the burden of proof on the accuser. I see it happen all the time in the media to the point the word loses meaning and just become a shit flinging episode.
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That's fair enough. But again you misread me, I've never spoken strictly about sincere 'racist views'. Someone can say something disgustingly racist and not mean it. I can say I will murder you tomorrow but that doesn't mean I'm sincere. Of course I don't think it's okay for people to be sincerely racist but that isn't my argument. I was always talking about a scenario where someone says something racist (whether they mean it or not isn't specified) and they are punished despite no-one taking offence to it. It may be the same ballpark but it's different levels of severity when you bring organised racism and sincere racism into the mix. Should a bloke be reprimanded for telling a racist joke to his mates? That's the level I'm discussing, not hate rallies, or organised murder. Another aspect of my argument is that I don't think I have the authority to lecture someone about race when they aren't willing to engage into a dialect. I think you can if you choose to, I wouldn't think any less of you but I'm not trying to be the sole-soldier against racism (one of my life philosophies is 'who am I to lecture you on morality?), I'm not going to change a hardcore racist's mind but time and other organisations or life experiences can reform those ideas. You can't change someone's mind unless they are open to the idea of changing their mind. Also wasn't Nazi Germany openly anti-semetic before the holocaust? Sure they didn't televise their plans to murder 3,000,000 people but they certainly weren't coy about their loveloss for the Jews.
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You having a dig?
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That is different. That is planning to murder people on a government level and US cops are just insane full stop. They murder everyone. I don't think all ingrained racist views do lead to actions; a lot more is said that is done. Also if you do re-read my posts (as you've seemingly missed those tidbits) you'd notice that I've more than once advocated for involvement of the higher authorities and organisations at stamping out racism.
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Yes. Yet you seem to think that is equable to acceptance.I do not accept it but I also don't believe it matters. You also didn't answer my question, you know? Does it affect you when a Congolese man laments how much he hates white people? Is that scenario okay? No, any scenario with the races changed or switched isn't but does it matter? No, it doesn't matter because no is harmed. It's a microcosm of racism that is the least of our concerns when there are people getting their heads caved in with rocks because of their ethnicity. The guy that makes a racist remark yet does nothing to harm anyone is the least of my concerns when actual violent racism happens in the world. It's a worry precedent but is all it is. Until they actively assault or harm another human they can't be arrested for a thought crime, can they?
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It's semantics. He is allowed to, but he thinks my apathy towards the issue is equable to acceptance. I just don't think someone should be punished for saying something that hasn't hurt anyone.
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I struggle to see how 'it doesn't matter' is equable to 'it's okay'. I think it's a non-issue if someone says something offensive and there is no one around to take offence. Is
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I see. I think a lot of people would react the same way in the States but it has much stronger chance of causing arguments. For instance if two Asian men are making nigger jokes amongst themselves while a white man is walking past, there is a good chance that he'd just keep walking and pay no mind; it's not worth starting a ruckus over. Although there is a much, much, much higher chance that he could be married to a black American and I feel that would tread over into personal feelings and create an incident. Also I find that true racism comes out in a far more subtle manner outside of obvious racial demonstrations.
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Where did I say that it's okay? You still haven't shown me. I didn't realise that 'it doesn't matter' is equable to 'it's okay and socially acceptable'. Really mate, you are stretching so far you might tear a muscle.
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I see. Regardless, I was curious of an environment where there are no people around to be targeted. Would it elicit the same reaction? Or would people carry on their lives?
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What was bullshit was inferring that it was my personal opinion when it never had anything to do with me. I was asking someone else if it was the social norm in their culture. What does that have to do with me FB? You want to know my personal opinion? I think it doesn't matter. You know why it doesn't matter? Because no-one has been hurt. Do I give a fuck if some black guy rants to his family about hating me because I'm white? No. Do I give a fuck if that person hurts someone, yes I do. Would I want to associate with people that hate people based on their skin? No, I wouldn't because that doesn't align with my beliefs but I'm not arrogant enough to believe that I have the right to be the moral arbiter and lecture them on race relations if they are unwilling to engage in discourse. I'd leave that to the authorities or any organisation that aims to reduce racism. And you know what FB? I'm not guilty for not answering a question and me not answering that question doesn't justify the assumption. You can take your weightless, evidenceless accusations of racism and sod off. Sick of it.
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Just because I raise questions and like to debate doesn't mean the viewpoint I'm arguing for is my personal belief. I just like to engage in discourse with people and I suppose some people don't like that and reduce everything to emotions or identity-politics. I like to get to the meat and potatoes of it, assume nothing and have fun. One of my favourite debates on in this thread is between Choulo and I. We discussed the moral and scientific relationship of abortion and I feel like I came out of that debate having learned something new.
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Where did I say it was okay? Please quote me; in fact I would love for you to quote the exact sentence I say 'American/Australian thinking its ok to be racist to black people because there are none in the vicinity' . Enough with your strawman bullshit FB, play it straight.
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Does it affect you when a Congolese man laments how much he hates white people? And again you missed the point; I was asking if the same thing would happen in Estonia outside of the football game.
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I don't disagree with that but I was never asking about that. I was asking what would happen in Estonia in an environment where no one was being attacked. At a football game harassing blacks is one thing, but hanging out at the local bar being racist when there isn't anyone of a different ethnicity for 100miles is a different thing. If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? That was my train of thought.
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He did already, you . I was asking him questions and you started replying so I assumed you were on the same page.