nullabletype

I'd hate to burst the Torres hate bubbles, but between the EPL and UCL... Torres - 22 apps and 4 goals, Drogba - 18 apps and 6 goals. I love the big man just as much as anybody else, but his goal return is only marginally better than the Spaniard. He could come back tomorrow, he's still not going to save our season. Sturridge started well and has 9 goals between both competitions (well, 9 EPL, 0 UCL), he has however been pretty cold recently. Truth of the matter is none of our forward players are on hot streaks, in fact, our whole team just isn't scoring enough. Wag the finger at Torres all you want, but he only deserves so much of the flack.

We're going to get slapped about. End of story.

True enough.

You're correct in saying we're rubbish, and we do keep possession and do nothing with it. But why do you feel like we have this god given rite to be the best team that ever there was? Ask every team below us would they rather be in our current position and the answer would be yes. As it stands we're in the UCL spots, and as far as this season goes, that's all that matters, because that's all we have a snowballs chance of achieving. So keep whining.

Uh... what?! City are the least of our worries. Would you rather see UTD win a 20th or Spurs their first? Balls to that. If not us, which it most definitely will not, then between the current top three it's City all day for me.

How though? I like many others don't mind holding my hands up when Torres plays grim, but over the last few games he hasn't been so. He's damned if does and damned if he doesn't. If he stood in his position the whole game he would get zero of the already non-existent support and the critics would say he shows no passion or work rate, he just stands with both arms the same length. So what he does is move around the park and help the team in this team game. So what has he achieved by doing so? well in general he puts in a good team show and has the assists to prove it. Today he was arguably our most creative player after Mata. Is that what we want him to be? No. But right now that's all he can be, so he might as well do it. We all know about the Torres issues, in fact, it's getting boring now. What's more boring though, is the constant beratement of one particular player, one week link in the over all precarious chain. Like I said in other posts, and people have said in this thread, if Torres was our only and biggest problem, I'd be much happier about this team than I am.

He's been one of the better players today. At very least he's been on power with the rest, but he's certainly eclipsed quite a few of our players performances today. Each to their own.

Incorrect.

BlueLion you know what you are! Cause he doesn't get a sniff if he plays where he's supposed to.

Personally, I don't know how anybody, be it fan or opposition, can look at our team as a whole and somehow conclude that Torres is our biggest problem. Virtually the whole squad is sucking the big one right now (by the standard that is expected by most). Fine, he's not scoring. That is regrettable seeing as scoring is his main objective. But you can't ignore the team play he puts in. I've seen people on this forum compare Torres number of goals to various other players. Then when his team contribution argument is bust out, the same people have said to ignore these points as he's and out and out striker and so it's the goals that matter. You cant exactly ignore his team play and assists but then not discount the goals he assisted, if that's the argument to be used against him. I don't defend him because I really love him or anything, I do so because it wouldn't matter who we had in his position right now, none of them would be doing much better. As it goes, he is putting in good team performances, and it's the results of the team that matter.

I'm guessing Tomo is trying to point out that we aren't in the crisis so many people think we are. He might even be subtly acknowledging the ridiculous sense of entitlement that so many of our fans have too.

That's not the point. Our matches aren't compromised of Fernando Torres vs 11 men. We all know he's not playing the best and that's fine. But I don't like how the rest of the teams faults are seemingly overlooked. Sturridge was only an example, but he could dissapear for 5 matches on the trot and you'd probably still never hear his name mentioned. This teams problems run deeper than Torres and it's all too easy to point the finger at him and blame him for droping points, as some have. It's not unusual for us to finish a game and to have had at last 50% of the team play under power, but even when that happens, all we hear is talk about what Torres did or didn't do. My issue isn't with Sturridge, I did say it was just an example. The point is as above. I'm bored of listening to the post game Torres show. Blame him all you want, there's 11 players on the pitch, and if you finish a game where maybe 2 or 3 turned up, we should be looking at everybody, not just one man.

Firstly, good write up. I don't necessarily share the same views but it's a well put together piece. The only but I sort of object to is this... Fair enough he is a striker and scoring goals is his main purpose. But at the end of the day it's a team effort, and 11 assists (I think) is decent. It's hard then to say we shouldn't be fooled by his work rate and team play. If we take his assists out of the big picture to focus on his striking ability, then it's unfair to take in to account the amount of goals other players have scored in comparison, mainly because a number of their goals would never have been if it wasn't for his contribution. I think it's fair to say most people do think Torres works hard and can see he's trying, in fact, hasn't he been awarded MotM on a few of his recent goalless outings? It's for these few reasons that I think Torres lack of striking success almost says more about the team surrounding him. I don't think there's too many strikers would be particularly potent in our current structure, which is why I feel the criticism of an out of sorts and let's be frank, incredibly unlucky Torres is for the most part harsh. My main issue with Torres isn't even one that he directly has any effect on. I can't stand when our post match analysis, be it from pundits or people on forums, mostly surrounds how bad Torres was, or when he's not bad, his lack of goals. Even when at times the entire team has been bad. For just one recent example, as much as I love the guy, Sturridge was invisible on Saturday. So much so my brother momentarily thought he'd been subbed! But how much time was spent talking about him? Very little if any at all.

I know the team is putting in some abysmal performances right now, but we are not in the crisis situation so many would have you believe. Our fan base has such spoilt brat feel to it at times. It's quite sad. We're in the middle of a transition period, something that doesn't happen overnight, over a month, six months or even a season. We more than likely have a few rough seasons ahead of us, seasons of rebuilding. There's teams all over the country going bankrupt and folding over whilst we all sit on here whining because we can't get the best players right now. We aren't content with being 4th place in what is arguably the best league in the world. As somebody who expects little from this team over the next few years I'm not overly bothered about where we are, in fact, given how poor we are right now, 4th place isn't to shabby. Every team is in the position they are in because that's where they deserve to be. The club isn't going to be completely overhauled any time soon, basically because it's virtually impossible to do. So with that in mind, why don't we just accept what we have and focus on supporting that?

Friends of mine used to do this for a gaming site. The podcast started to pick up steam and do pretty well before they packed it in. No reason why you couldn't do the same. Would probably work out pretty well.

Yeah, medical team and the finance department. I say we give Essien more than part of one game before we all decide he's finished.

Why wait the time it will take for him to get a few Chelsea games under his belt to make well rounded and fair judgements on him when we can huff, puff and moan about his wages and ability now?! You're no fun.

Ramires. Honourable mention for Torres.

To be fair, I read over his post again and it's possible that I picked him up wrong. It's hard to tell because the English isn't great which is fair enough as I assume it's his second language. But to take a wee huff and call somebody over the internet a twat because they don't agree with you, my my.

I actually hate QPR more than any other team in the EPL, even the Spuds. There's just something about them I can't have. They're the only team who I would happily see relegated which is handy enough since it's a real possibility. If I'm correct they have a replay with MK Dons. I'd like to see Dons put them out. It would be nice to beat them ourselves, but the sooner they go out the better. Swine! Edit: I hope Newcastle batter them today.

Of course. Each to there own and all that. But people seem to get themselves worked up over the topic even though it's something that they're very much in the dark about, which comes across as slightly odd to me. However.

I think the difference is that we can all see what's good or bad with tactics, play etc. It's out there for all to see. We have enough information to actually generate a meaningful discussion. When it comes to the likes of contracts and so on, not all the relevant information is disclosed. All the information we have is based on paper speculation and hearsay. Talking about tactics and play is something that directly effects the game, where as how much a player earns is virtually meaningless. It's even more so meaningless when you consider most of the conversation is worrying about the state of the clubs finances. The club is unlikely to make financially unsound decisions (you don't make the money Roman has by doing as such) , especially as we approach FFP. So for people to quibble over Cahill's wage is largely pointless as the clubs financier's, the people who have all the information, have deemed it acceptable. It's not that people begrudge talk about finance, it's the type of talk. Saying a player shouldn't play because he's clearly out of form makes sense as we can see that for ourselves. Saying Gary Cahill shouldn't get 80K a week is pointless since we have no idea about the state of the clubs finances. And the worst bit about it all is the people slandering Cahill, saying he's not worth his wage, not good enough etc before he's even pulled on a Chelsea shirt. The reason this is the worst part is because if he turns up, plays well and becomes a great player for us, as sure as a hoop's round the same people who rubbished him before he even stepped on the pitch as a Chelsea player will be verbally patting him on the back and proclaiming he's a great player and all the rest of it. I could be wrong, but I suspect there will be a few people who posted in this thread who will end up eating crow.

You're such a gent. Edit: Perhaps I picked you up wrong, but if that is the case , the least you could do would be to point it out without resorting to name calling. But for what's worth, your negativity is incredibly boring.

You compared Torres to Sheva but said Sheva was better because... Zolayes then defended Torres saying he does these things also, but as usual you insist in talking some negative garbage. 1) Try hard - Tick 2) Some good passes - Tick 3) Some assists - Tick 4) Couple of goals - Tick Whilst he's not banging them in left, right and centre, it's clear for most to see he is trying hard. As for passes and assists, well he has 11 assists, more than any other player in the squad, we've also seen him cut open the defence with quite a few of his passes. Couple of goals? well he's got more than a couple and is on his way to more. Your shtick is boring.

Then I guess we continue to agree to disagree.