Controversial football opinions

[Atlas Lion 1,223]

Morocco's potential national side is quality

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Afellay-----------------------Chadli

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[Muzchap 8,966]

Bundesliga and La Liga shit all over PL when it comes to quality. The only English team that plays better football than the likes of Bayern, Dortmund, Real Madrid, Barcelona etc. is us.

Ahh the abstract principle of 'quality'

Those leagues are also a lot slower than the EPL - you get time on the ball - and there lies the problem with players in those leagues coming to the EPL, some make the transition, others don't do so well

I guess it's down to what you prefer to watch - I love the pace and aggression of the EPL - versus La Liga - Bundesliga sits between those two IMHO - but is 100% a one horse race with Bayern!

As for the EPL - not sure how many years you have been watching it? But don't let the table deceive you - we had a similar position a few years back and finished outside the Top4 - but as we won the CL still qualified.

Arsenal bottled a lead last year. The EPL is still unpredictable - it won't be plain sailing - anybody who believes that is on a hiding to nothing

[Fulham Broadway 16,393]

22 Blokes kicking a bag of wind round a field is way, way overated

[Nike 373]

Nope.

Ronaldo's goals and ages:

1993: 20 goals in 21 matches. (16-17 years old)

1994-1995: 24 goals in 26 matches for Cruzeiro, 35 goals in 36 matches for PSV. (17-18 years old)

1995-1996: 19 goals in 21 matches. (19 years old) PSV.

1996-1997: 47 goals in 49 matches. (20 years old) Barcelona.

1997-1998: 34 goals in 47 matches. (21 years old) Internazionale.

1998-1999: 15 goals in 28 matches. (22 years old) Internazionale.

1999-2000: 03 goals in 08 matches. (23 years old) Here starts his major injury problems.

2000-2001: 00 goals in 00 matches. (24 years old) His injury was so bad he missed an entire season.

Total: 197 goals in 236 matches. 0,83 goals per match.

Ronaldo didn't even get to hit the best years of his career before fucking up his knees. It's like if Hazard got severely injured in this season, he's just entering his prime years. When you say he's an icon of the early 2000's says it all. In the 2000's he was already about half the player he previously was and was still amazing. Let's see Messi.

Messi:

2004-2005: 01 goal in 09 matches (17 years old)

2005-2006: 08 goals in 25 matches (18 years old)

2006-2007: 16 goals in 40 matches (19 years old)

2007-2008: 38 goals in 51 matches (20 years old)

2008-2009: 47 goals in 53 matches (21 years old)

2009-2010: 53 goals in 55 matches (22 years old)

2010-2011: 73 goals in 60 matches (23 years old)

Total: 236 goals in 293 matches. 0,80 goals per match.

As you can see, they're about evenly matched until Ronaldo got injured. In addition, Messi only started scoring more than a goal per game in the exact same age as Ronaldo barely played because of his knee injury. Also keep in mind that in those last seasons before the major injuries Ronaldo also struggled with minor ones (see how he's only played 28 and 08 matches in the last two) and moved to the Italian league, where, let's face it, defences were WAY better than anything we see in La Liga these days, especially at the time when it was one of the strongest if not the strongest league in the world.

CR7 bloomed even later than Messi, so there's really no comparison.

Not only Ronaldo did manage to score as much, but also OUTSCORE CR7 and Messi in his early years of career before injury. You're wrong. That's why people wonder how good he could have been if not for his fucked knees. If there was a player with similar skill (because he was so much more than number of goals per match) and numbers as 22-23 years old Ronaldo today, my brain can't even fathom the amount of hype he'd have. People would be oozing all over themselves everywhere on the internet.

While Nesta shut out Messi when he was one one leg and in his latter years for a subpar milan squad.

In an interview, Nesta recalled one of his worst experiences suffered during his time in Lazio when he had to face the Brazilian Ronaldo in the 1998 UEFA Cup final against Inter. Assured of his abilities, Nesta was incapable of understanding just how Ronaldo managed to get past him and how the Milanese giants scored three. After the match, Sandro watched countless videos to see what errors he may have committed to have suffered such a heavy defeat but after a lengthy period of time he concluded that he did not err, Ronaldo was simply unstoppable and the best striker he had ever come across. So meticulous with his approach to defending, Nesta forever studies his performances in search of ways of improving.

[Atlas Lion 1,223]

While Nesta shut out Messi when he was one one leg and in his latter years for a subpar milan squad.

Yet Messi has made the likes of Cannavaro, Puyol, Lucio, Lugano, and Carvalho look like Sunday league defenders.

[Nike 373]

Yet Messi has made the likes of Cannavaro, Puyol, Lucio, Lugano, and Carvalho look like Sunday league defenders.

Yes, Messi faced Puyol....

And an old cannavaro, carvalho, lucio.

But did he face a prime herrara, thuram, nesta, maldini, cannavaro, puyol......

Or a prime buffon and kahn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UGYOA3bHO8

When ronnie was a teenager.

[Atlas Lion 1,223]

Yes, Messi faced Puyol....

And an old cannavaro, carvalho, lucio.

But did he face a prime herrara, thuram, nesta, maldini, cannavaro, puyol......

Or a prime buffon and kahn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UGYOA3bHO8

When ronnie was a teenager.

Another reason why comparing players of different generations is sheer unjustifiable. The game is constantly changing. Messi's overall game is better than Ronaldo's hence his higher prestige.

[Nike 373]

Another reason why comparing players of different generations is sheer unjustifiable. The game is constantly changing. Messi's overall game is better than Ronaldo's hence his higher prestige.

How is his overall game better?

PRESTIGE...lol

Speaking exclusively in the December 2012 issue of FourFourTwo, Messi said: "Ronaldo was my hero. He was the best forward I've ever seen. He was so fast that he could score a goal from nothing and he struck the ball better than anyone I've seen."

Prestige.

[Spike 12,049]

The Bundesliga falls apart in the bottom half. The bottom half of the Bundesliga is less than Championship quality.

La Liga is surprisingly strong. It would be stronger if teams didn't roll over for Barcelona and Real Madrid.

Diego Milito should have won the Balon D'or in 2010.

England has the worst grass roots and youth system in Europe.

The Serie A is trying to juvenate itself so desperately.

French football was superior before PSG and Monaco.

Many young players play too many matches early and burn out young.

The French will win the next Euros.

Belgium will get to at least the semis.

Neymar will outscore Pele for Brazil.

[Atlas Lion 1,223]

How is his overall game better?

PRESTIGE...lol

Speaking exclusively in the December 2012 issue of FourFourTwo, Messi said: "Ronaldo was my hero. He was the best forward I've ever seen. He was so fast that he could score a goal from nothing and he struck the ball better than anyone I've seen."

You're obsession for certain players is sickening, almost to a certain biased mentality. For a man who feels Thiago has a greater range of passing and contain Leadership qualities to a higher level of Cesc Fabregas in all reality doesn't contain a whole lot of credibility.

Messi's overall game from his vision and involvement of play that makes the team work better as a unit is ever so blatant, which is recognizable by his 4 consecutive Ballon D'ors and his handful of records that probably won't ever be broken in our lifetime.

Messi also made an interview on canal plus stating that Batistuta was the greatest striker he's ever seen, but you didn't bring that up because I assume that doesn't fit you're agenda? Or what about when Ronaldinho stating that Messi is the best player he's played with and will forever go down as the greatest?

[Nike 373]

I do agree that it is pointless when comparing players of different eras, but when people say Messi and esp. CR7 greatest of all time, than that pisses me off...

messi is understandable..

The Bundesliga falls apart in the bottom half. The bottom half of the Bundesliga is less than Championship quality.

La Liga is surprisingly strong. It would be stronger if teams didn't roll over for Barcelona and Real Madrid.

Diego Milito should have won the Balon D'or in 2010.

England has the worst grass roots and youth system in Europe.

The Serie A is trying to juvenate itself so desperately.

French football was superior before PSG and Monaco.

Many young players play too many matches early and burn out young.

The French will win the next Euros.

Belgium will get to at least the semis.

Neymar will outscore Pele for Brazil.

Neymar going to beat pele before his 25th birthday...

[Nike 373]

You're obsession for certain players is sickening, almost to a certain biased mentality. For a man who feels Thiago has a greater range of passing and contain Leadership qualities to a higher level of Cesc Fabregas in all reality doesn't contain a whole lot of credibility.

Messi's overall game from his vision and involvement of play that makes the team work better as a unit is ever so blatant, which is recognizable by his 4 consecutive Ballon D'ors and his handful of records that probably won't ever be broken in our lifetime.

Messi also made an interview on canal plus stating that Batistuta was the greatest striker he's ever seen, but you didn't bring that up because I assume that doesn't fit you're agenda? Or what about when Ronaldinho stating that Messi is the best player he's played with and will forever go down as the greatest?

Yes, because your mouth is located under Messi's pants as well right?

And thiago is better than Cesc. Go ask catalans and spainards.. Obviously, since england never had thiago, besides the u21 game where he rape England...

Messi's overall game from what?

You mean vision and play involvement like this?

Or like this?

Tell me again what Messi is better at?

I figured it out.. Messi is maybe better at ball control because of his tiny legs. But anything else, I give ronnie the edge.

hey marlon brando, i take you as a fan of good movies??

Guess who has the most oscars on a single film? Thats right, the POS TITANIC does. Therefore, the movie must be the best and prestigious! I guess with your logic I can say titanic was better and more prestigous because of awards right? SO, TITANIC>GODFATHER...RIGHT?

[iseah100 5,612]

Yes, because your mouth is located under Messi's pants as well right?

And thiago is better than Cesc. Go ask catalans and spainards.. Obviously, since england never had thiago, besides the u21 game where he rape England...

Messi's overall game from what?

You mean vision and play involvement like this?

Or like this?

Tell me again what Messi is better at?

I figured it out.. Messi is maybe better at ball control because of his tiny legs. But anything else, I give ronnie the edge.

hey marlon brando, i take you as a fan of good movies??

Guess who has the most oscars on a single film? Thats right, the POS TITANIC does. Therefore, the movie must be the best and prestigious! I guess with your logic I can say titanic was better and more prestigous because of awards right? SO, TITANIC>GODFATHER...RIGHT?

Umm. Titanic is an amazing film and is a masterpiece. Js.

[Dion 2,476]

Another reason why comparing players of different generations is sheer unjustifiable. The game is constantly changing. Messi's overall game is better than Ronaldo's hence his higher prestige.

That's very arguable.

Messi's overall game from his vision and involvement of play that makes the team work better as a unit is ever so blatant, which is recognizable by his 4 consecutive Ballon D'ors and his handful of records that probably won't ever be broken in our lifetime.

Not clear at all. If anything some people could argue it's the opposite. For the longest time it was argued that barça's system was made to work in favour of Messi, which is natural since he carries the team often and is their best player. But that seems to have taken a toll in the other attacking players. They all seemed to struggle to find the net because everybody's role was to feed Messi basically. That seems to be changing a bit in recent times but look how everyone else had been struggling to score there not too long ago. And when Ibra was scoring and Messi struggling a bit, Ibra was cut off from the team. Also I don't see how he improves Argentina as whole all that much, sure he can provide the game winning goal or play but what you're talking about is not even his role (to make the team play better as whole). I don't see where you're trying to go with this. Also IMO he was not even Argentina's most influential or best player in the last World Cup.

Overall game better? I don't know about that either. Ronaldo had a better array of dribbles - Messi's dribbling whilst very efficient is also very one sided, but probably has the edge on efficiency. Ronaldo also was two footed and edged Messi in pretty much everything related to power and strength. Both very clinical. Messi has better vision but Ronaldo was no slouch either, he has some very beautiful assists to his name. It's too close to call. And Ronaldo has 3 ballon D'or, so they're about even in this regard too. And IMO it was harder to win one in Ronaldo's era. People are giving Messi awards that he didn't even deserve as of lately.

And don't get me wrong. Considering everything I think Messi has the edge on Ronaldo but they're really closer than many people seem to think around here. I get the vibe from some people that there's a significant gap when there isn't.

[kellzfresh 7,226]

That's very arguable.

Not clear at all. If anything some people could argue it's the opposite. For the longest time it was argued that barça's system was made to work in favour of Messi, which is natural since he carries the team often and is their best player. But that seems to have taken a toll in the other attacking players. They all seemed to struggle to find the net because everybody's role was to feed Messi basically. That seems to be changing a bit in recent times but look how everyone else had been struggling to score there not too long ago. And when Ibra was scoring and Messi struggling a bit, Ibra was cut off from the team. Also I don't see how he improves Argentina as whole all that much, sure he can provide the game winning goal or play but what you're talking about is not even his role (to make the team play better as whole). I don't see where you're trying to go with this. Also IMO he was not even Argentina's most influential or best player in the last World Cup.

Overall game better? I don't know about that either. Ronaldo had a better array of dribbles - Messi's dribbling whilst very efficient is also very one sided, but probably has the edge on efficiency. Ronaldo also was two footed and edged Messi in pretty much everything related to power and strength. Both very clinical. Messi has better vision but Ronaldo was no slouch either, he has some very beautiful assists to his name. It's too close to call. And Ronaldo has 3 ballon D'or, so they're about even in this regard too. And IMO it was harder to win one in Ronaldo's era. People are giving Messi awards that he didn't even deserve as of lately.

And don't get me wrong. Considering everything I think Messi has the edge on Ronaldo but they're really closer than many people seem to think around here. I get the vibe from some people that there's a significant gap when there isn't.

Glad to see appreciation for ronaldo here. It's so easy for people to forget ronaldo was a 3 times world best player. That injury problems he had was a career killer and the cause of why so many fickle fans have forgotten how good he was.

[Atlas Lion 1,223]

That's very arguable.

Not clear at all. If anything some people could argue it's the opposite. For the longest time it was argued that barça's system was made to work in favour of Messi, which is natural since he carries the team often and is their best player. But that seems to have taken a toll in the other attacking players. They all seemed to struggle to find the net because everybody's role was to feed Messi basically. That seems to be changing a bit in recent times but look how everyone else had been struggling to score there not too long ago. And when Ibra was scoring and Messi struggling a bit, Ibra was cut off from the team. Also I don't see how he improves Argentina as whole all that much, sure he can provide the game winning goal or play but what you're talking about is not even his role (to make the team play better as whole). I don't see where you're trying to go with this. Also IMO he was not even Argentina's most influential or best player in the last World Cup.

Overall game better? I don't know about that either. Ronaldo had a better array of dribbles - Messi's dribbling whilst very efficient is also very one sided, but probably has the edge on efficiency. Ronaldo also was two footed and edged Messi in pretty much everything related to power and strength. Both very clinical. Messi has better vision but Ronaldo was no slouch either, he has some very beautiful assists to his name. It's too close to call. And Ronaldo has 3 ballon D'or, so they're about even in this regard too. And IMO it was harder to win one in Ronaldo's era. People are giving Messi awards that he didn't even deserve as of lately.

And don't get me wrong. Considering everything I think Messi has the edge on Ronaldo but they're really closer than many people seem to think around here. I get the vibe from some people that there's a significant gap when there isn't.

Henry, Eto'o, and Villa all managed to get 20+goals the seasons where Messi won the Ballon D'or 2009-2012 so to say they were struggling whilst trying to accommodate him is bit of a rash claim, as well as claiming the decay in attacking players due to the responsibility of as you say, 'feeding Messi', when infact that Spanish national side has been going downhill as well considering the main core of the national team pertain to Barca's golden generation. Both Xavi and Iniesta were the focal points and its become blatant that their ability is diminishing. We can't forget the fact that Barca lacked an out and out goal scorer like Villa was until the purchase of Suarez. Pedro, Neymar, and Sanchez do not have those instincts.

Ibra wasn't cast aside due to Messi struggling whilst playing with him as the media portrayed it to be, it was down to the simple concept that Ibra did not complement their style of play, at all. Barca do not play with a target man and the amount of times Ibra has ruined their rhythm and attacking transition was apparent to Guardiola, hence his transfer.

Argentina's biggest mistake was to continue to play Messi in the hole rather than his usual attacking free flowing self.

)

When you consider the variables, control, vision, versatility and the ability to play from deep, natural finishing instincts, as most importantly, consistency, that's what separates Messi from Ronaldo. That's roughly debatable but i agree with you, Ronaldo had to go against the likes of Zidane, Rivaldo, and Figo where as Messi had to go against the likes of C.Ronaldo, Iniesta, and Xavi. All players who will go down as some of the formidable best in their respective countries,

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Isn't the point of the "controversial Football Opinion" thread that people will most likely not agree with what you are saying?!

[Dion 2,476]

Henry, Eto'o, and Villa all managed to get 20+goals the seasons where Messi won the Ballon D'or 2009-2012 so to say they were struggling whilst trying to accommodate him is bit of a rash claim, as well as claiming the decay in attacking players due to the responsibility of as you say, 'feeding Messi', when infact that Spanish national side has been going downhill as well considering the main core of the national team pertain to Barca's golden generation. Both Xavi and Iniesta were the focal points and its become blatant that their ability is diminishing. We can't forget the fact that Barca lacked an out and out goal scorer like Villa was until the purchase of Suarez. Pedro, Neymar, and Sanchez do not have those instincts.

Ibra wasn't cast aside due to Messi struggling whilst playing with him as the media portrayed it to be, it was down to the simple concept that Ibra did not complement their style of play, at all. Barca do not play with a target man and the amount of times Ibra has ruined their rhythm and attacking transition was apparent to Guardiola, hence his transfer.

Argentina's biggest mistake was to continue to play Messi in the hole rather than his usual attacking free flowing self.

)

When you consider the variables, control, vision, versatility and the ability to play from deep, natural finishing instincts, as most importantly, consistency, that's what separates Messi from Ronaldo. That's roughly debatable but i agree with you, Ronaldo had to go against the likes of Zidane, Rivaldo, and Figo where as Messi had to go against the likes of C.Ronaldo, Iniesta, and Xavi. All players who will go down as some of the formidable best in their respective countries,

I don't follow Barcelona all that much but my friends who do always complained that they lacked goals coming from anyone else other than Messi, and they blamed it on the system. It's hard to assess Ibrahimovic's case but if I remember correctly it was Ibra himself who said something to that effect. There are too many factors to consider when comparing players from different eras and that's my point. It's hard to say X is better than Y when so many variables are different.