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BlueLion.

Oscar

Started by BlueLion.,

12,576 posts in this topic

Hopefully he becomes consistent at doing the good things and cuts out the basic errors that plague his game.

Funny thing, people always bring up Hazard's age when his finishing is called inconsistent (don't get me wrong, I think that is a very valid point at the age of 23), but no one ever brings up Oscar's age when his form drops or becomes inconsistent even though he is almost a year younger than Eden and his role requires more maturity, experience and understanding of the game.

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Funny thing, people always bring up Hazard's age when his finishing is called inconsistent (don't get me wrong, I think that is a very valid point at the age of 23), but no one ever brings up Oscar's age when his form drops or becomes inconsistent even though he is almost a year younger than Eden and his role requires more maturity, experience and understanding of the game.

Because Hazard is way more talented... so therefore his talent makes up for his shortcomings. Oscar is nowhere as talented, so people will always demand more from him. It's as if every player is supposed to be as talent as others...

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Because Hazard is way more talented... so therefore his talent makes up for his shortcomings. Oscar is nowhere as talented, so people will always demand more from him. It's as if every player is supposed to be as talent as others...

Interesting point.

Not sure I would, or whether it's even possible to measure talent as a single gauge in football. For example, there are things the manager can ask of Oscar, but not of Hazard and the same works for Hazard too. A point I made in a different thread however would have me agreeing with you in terms of valuation, as attacking players are indeed more valuable; which would make Hazard more valuable.

In general though, they are very different players and reckon a team which has both - very talented with very complementary characteristics - must be a very lucky team indeed. Is it just luck though? just look at Arsenal and how they pile up on the same player which leads to a very unbalanced team.

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Because Hazard is way more talented... so therefore his talent makes up for his shortcomings. Oscar is nowhere as talented, so people will always demand more from him. It's as if every player is supposed to be as talent as others...

I strongly disagree that hazard is WAY(as you said) more talented than oscar, especially in terms of pure football qualities which involves the use of the brain. Hazard is rather more blessed with athletic qualities which complements his talent(strength, speed) therefore i presume by talented you mean only in dribbling and/or chance creation which i agree with but doesn't amount to WAY more talented. Given his athletic limitations (strength, stamina) oscar is a much more phenomenal player for me especially as he surprisingly and seemingly portrays himself as a strong player on the field. Mourinho summed up hazards talent by saying he is phenomenal because he dribbles or beats one, two and three players (the key word being dribbling or chance creation), on the other hand mourinho summed up Oscars talent by saying he creates balances, gives creativity and scores goals only made possible by his talent but we also know his pressing is world class. IMO hazard is a great dribbler no doubt but also oscar's most important talent is that he creates balances just as mourinho said which is a form of creativity that many fail to understand. A managers first job to a team is to bring balance to that team which makes oscar a managers boy and which is why coaches like ancelotti wanted him at PSG when they were suffering from imbalance. It is also the reason oscar is the brazil no. 10. He isn't in brasil team because of his world class goals or assists but because he brings or creates balance for the team in that role. In world football only tony kroos and oscar are exceptional in creating that kind of balance to a team but oscar is the better presser and tony kroos the better passer. Hazard and oscar for me are like robben and lampard where for chelsea and if their qualities are assessed objectively and with consistency they might both make the podium for the ballon D or for the roles they offer to their clubs and countries. They are still so young.

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I strongly disagree that hazard is WAY(as you said) more talented than oscar, especially in terms of pure football qualities which involves the use of the brain. Hazard is rather more blessed with athletic qualities which complements his talent(strength, speed) therefore i presume by talented you mean only in dribbling and/or chance creation which i agree with but doesn't amount to WAY more talented. Given his athletic limitations (strength, stamina) oscar is a much more phenomenal player for me especially as he surprisingly and seemingly portrays himself as a strong player on the field. Mourinho summed up hazards talent by saying he is phenomenal because he dribbles or beats one, two and three players (the key word being dribbling or chance creation), on the other hand mourinho summed up Oscars talent by saying he creates balances, gives creativity and scores goals only made possible by his talent but we also know his pressing is world class. IMO hazard is a great dribbler no doubt but also oscar's most important talent is that he creates balances just as mourinho said which is a form of creativity that many fail to understand. A managers first job to a team is to bring balance to that team which makes oscar a managers boy and which is why coaches like ancelotti wanted him at PSG when they were suffering from imbalance. It is also the reason oscar is the brazil no. 10. He isn't in brasil team because of his world class goals or assists but because he brings or creates balance for the team in that role. In world football only tony kroos and oscar are exceptional in creating that kind of balance to a team but oscar is the better presser and tony kroos the better passer. Hazard and oscar for me are like robben and lampard where for chelsea and if their qualities are assessed objectively and with consistency they might both make the podium for the ballon D or for the roles they offer to their clubs and countries. They are still so young.

I didn't think it was even up to discussion, I thought it was consensus... Hazard is way more talented than most players in the world.

so yeah, raw talent, Oscar doesn't come even close imo. It doesn't mean he can't or won't make up with other things. I'm not saying Eden's way better than Oscar (nor am I saying he's not). So as he has more tricks under his sleeve than Oscar does, and Oscar normally has to work a lot to make some things happen, Eden's shortcomings are easier to overlook. Creating balance isn't a talent, as well as using the brain, or whatever else you want to say. Those are qualities, but not necessarily talent. Also, Oscar is a better (and classier) goal scorer - that's the only 'talent' I can think he's better than Eden. They're different kind of players, but Oscar normally can't make people forget the 5 times he got dispossessed in a match, by dribbling by 5 players like Hazard does... so people will remember Oscar's misplaced passes, turnovers and whats not, but they won't remember Eden's because how many times Eden is brilliant in a match and how many times Oscar is? Sometimes it's a close comparison, sometimes it's not. That's all I meant.

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I didn't think it was even up to discussion, I thought it was consensus... Hazard is way more talented than most players in the world.

so yeah, raw talent, Oscar doesn't come even close imo. It doesn't mean he can't or won't make up with other things. I'm not saying Eden's way better than Oscar (nor am I saying he's not). So as he has more tricks under his sleeve than Oscar does, and Oscar normally has to work a lot to make some things happen, Eden's shortcomings are easier to overlook. Creating balance isn't a talent, as well as using the brain, or whatever else you want to say. Those are qualities, but not necessarily talent. Also, Oscar is a better (and classier) goal scorer - that's the only 'talent' I can think he's better than Eden. They're different kind of players, but Oscar normally can't make people forget the 5 times he got dispossessed in a match, by dribbling by 5 players like Hazard does... so people will remember Oscar's misplaced passes, turnovers and whats not, but they won't remember Eden's because how many times Eden is brilliant in a match and how many times Oscar is? Sometimes it's a close comparison, sometimes it's not. That's all I meant.

That's why i said i disagree in terms of football qualities that involve the use of the brain. For example when hazard picks up the ball his first instinct is always to dribble where ever he is even when he is near our goal but when oscar gets the ball he thinks of a lot more possible options. Also when oscar isn't playing well his work rate is still good but when hazard isn't at his best he completely disappears and doesn't even want the ball until he has what i call a "Hazard moment" like he did vs everton this season, hazard disappears when he plays badly so how can he misplace passes when he doesn't even want the ball in such situations especially in the first 20 minutes of such games. I also like to think our team plays far better when oscar is in form (e.g vs palace, vs leciester 2nd half) while hazards brilliance doesn't affect the entire team as much as an in form oscar(e.g vs arsenal and vs maribor away). Creating balance is a talent and I am patient enough to wait and see the new influence this kind of talent which oscar has will have on our team when it completely matures. Along with cesc and matic our midfield will become like a DNA playing well in each game for a very different reason from the next. Someone said our team is as adaptable as water look no further than our midfield which is core to see why.

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Was he playing as a left winger? I saw just bits of the game, but it seemed that way to me...

And it seems like he is an official set-piece taker for Brazil now.

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Was he playing as a left winger? I saw just bits of the game, but it seemed that way to me...

And it seems like he is an official set-piece taker for Brazil now.

Yes for the first and no to the second. Him, Neymar and Luiz all took set-pieces for Brasil last night.

I don't like him on the left wing. He got a bit selfish shooting every time he cut inside instead of passing. Could've had a couple of assists.

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27 to 35. That's the amount of goals Oscar has scored compared to hazard since they have played for chelsea. That's with Oscar taking 1 penalty to Hazards 10.

Appearance wise, they are almost identical, Oscar's 126 to eden's 129. Although hazard and 15 more starts than Oscar.

Didn't see any stats for total assists in the stats thread, which is where you would probably see the major difference between the two.

I have to say as someone who thought of Oscar as a quite decent player but one that had terrible consistency as an attacker player, terms of assists and goals, I'm shocked by this!

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