Bastille Day Attack in Nice

[Spike 12,049]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/14/truck-crashes-into-crowd-at-bastille-day-celebrations-in-nice2/

RIP

I hope all our French friends are safe from harm. How much longer does this have to go on? I'm not going to hold my breath on this, who else could this be but another Islamist psychopath?

 

 '30 dead' after truck crashes into crowd at Bastille Day celebrations in Nice 'terror attack'

 

[Weckerz 3,781]

Over 70 casualties so far. The world we live in.. madness

[Heisenberg 1,824]

2 hours ago, Spike said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/14/truck-crashes-into-crowd-at-bastille-day-celebrations-in-nice2/

RIP

I hope all our French friends are safe from harm. How much longer does this have to go on? I'm not going to hold my breath on this, who else could this be but another Islamist psychopath?

 

 '30 dead' after truck crashes into crowd at Bastille Day celebrations in Nice 'terror attack'

 

 

Paris ,Alep , Orlando , Islamabad , Bagdad ,Tunis, Istanbul , Medina, Nice, its seems that theses "islamists" psychos are just against human beings, religion doesnt matter much.

[Spike 12,049]

47 minutes ago, Heisenberg said:

 

Paris ,Alep , Orlando , Islamabad , Bagdad ,Tunis, Istanbul , Medina, Nice, its seems that theses "islamists" psychos are just against human beings, religion doesnt matter much.

Why did you put quotations around 'Islamists'? Have Islamists not committed horrifying acts? Do they not exist? Islamists perpetrate extreme acts even against their fellow followers of Muhammed. Religion is there end all, be all; without it they are nothing. They are a hateful scourge on the world that would just as quickly decapitate a moderate or westernised Muslim as they would an infidel. They are the antithesis to peace and only exist to further their own belief structure.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

5 hours ago, Spike said:

Why did you put quotations around 'Islamists'? Have Islamists not committed horrifying acts? Do they not exist? Islamists perpetrate extreme acts even against their fellow followers of Muhammed. Religion is there end all, be all; without it they are nothing. They are a hateful scourge on the world that would just as quickly decapitate a moderate or westernised Muslim as they would an infidel. They are the antithesis to peace and only exist to further their own belief structure.

Terror yet again in France, they have gun control in France, so this cannot be used as an excuse to avoid the real root of these problems that occur too frequently. Yet all it took was a French Tunisian muslim to smuggle weapons and kill 84 people with so many in critical condition. 84!!!!! 

 

 

[Heisenberg 1,824]

10 hours ago, Spike said:

Why did you put quotations around 'Islamists'? Have Islamists not committed horrifying acts? Do they not exist? Islamists perpetrate extreme acts even against their fellow followers of Muhammed. Religion is there end all, be all; without it they are nothing. They are a hateful scourge on the world that would just as quickly decapitate a moderate or westernised Muslim as they would an infidel. They are the antithesis to peace and only exist to further their own belief structure.

I agree with what you are saying, I've put quotations around Islamists to point out that they may be fuelled by islam, it doesnt mean they are islamist, islamic values, or doctrine or called it like you want dont teach you to kill people, let alone innocent ones.Beside that I agree on evryword you said especially the last sentence.

[Spike 12,049]

3 hours ago, Heisenberg said:

I agree with what you are saying, I've put quotations around Islamists to point out that they may be fuelled by islam, it doesnt mean they are islamist, islamic values, or doctrine or called it like you want dont teach you to kill people, let alone innocent ones.Beside that I agree on evryword you said especially the last sentence.

Islamist or Islamism are just the English words for far right Muslims that use extreme means to an end or taqiyya to force an Islamic state upon the world. The Quran has many, many verses that promote violence or skirt around the subject leaving it open to interpretation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism

[lucio 5,418]

europe needs to take action, instead of just sitting around waiting for the next disaster. close all mosques and ban the religion across europe. even without these attacks its a nasty ideology with no place here.

too many people worried about being called a racist, when its nothing to do with race, its about some dangerous fairytales driving people insane. islamophobe has lost all potency, its now common sense, not something to be ashamed of

[Heisenberg 1,824]

5 hours ago, Spike said:

Islamist or Islamism are just the English words for far right Muslims that use extreme means to an end or taqiyya to force an Islamic state upon the world. The Quran has many, many verses that promote violence or skirt around the subject leaving it open to interpretation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism

The Quran has many verses about violence, in no way it promotes violence, we understood it like that, and believe me the islamic crisis of this age is definetly the extremly bad ( false ) interpretation of the Quran.The Quran is perfect, its us who are dumb.

[Spike 12,049]

1 minute ago, Heisenberg said:

The Quran has many verses about violence, in no way it promotes violence, we understood it like that, and believe me the islamic crisis of this age is definetly the extremly bad ( false ) interpretation of the Quran.The Quran is perfect, its us who are dumb.

During the days of polytheism in Europe, many cultures believe that other pantheons of gods were just different names and interpretations of the same gods. For instance, a Roman would believe that Jupiter (Roman), Zeus (Greek), Odin/Donar (Norse/Germanic), and Taranis (Celtic) were all the same being interpretative and named differently. Not until  the rise of Abrahamaic religions did the notion of 'our god is the only god' arise. So I must ask you, do you believe in the same manner as pagan Europeans, is the Jewish, Christian and Muslim god the same being? If so does that make the Torah and Bible perfect scriptures also? If not why are they inferior to the Quran? They were written much earlier and not by a man whose life and actions are hotly debated with allegations of paedophilia, assassination and war mongering.

I will end by stating a perfect text would never be misinterpreted. Passages like  the following are too hard for me interpret in any other way besides promotion of violence particularly against non-believers

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" 

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!" 

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... 
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" 

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." 

[Fernando 6,468]

Well this time it wasn't gun that killed people.....

See the point is here that as much you tried to blame on guns (which I agree to a certain point) banning gun by itself will not solve the problem. 

As you seen here these terrorist will find ways to do their work. 

[Unionjack 7,531]

Such a fuckin nightmare.

Love and Peace goes out to the French and everyone else whose lives have been affected thru terrorism of any sort.

Dont let the fuckers gind ya down.

[Heisenberg 1,824]

On Friday, July 15, 2016 at 11:21 PM, Spike said:

During the days of polytheism in Europe, many cultures believe that other pantheons of gods were just different names and interpretations of the same gods. For instance, a Roman would believe that Jupiter (Roman), Zeus (Greek), Odin/Donar (Norse/Germanic), and Taranis (Celtic) were all the same being interpretative and named differently. Not until  the rise of Abrahamaic religions did the notion of 'our god is the only god' arise. So I must ask you, do you believe in the same manner as pagan Europeans, is the Jewish, Christian and Muslim god the same being? If so does that make the Torah and Bible perfect scriptures also? If not why are they inferior to the Quran? They were written much earlier and not by a man whose life and actions are hotly debated with allegations of paedophilia, assassination and war mongering.

I will end by stating a perfect text would never be misinterpreted. Passages like  the following are too hard for me interpret in any other way besides promotion of violence particularly against non-believers

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" 

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!" 

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... 
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" 

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." 

 

First of all excuse me for this late late answer, i've been non stop studying I couldnt answer you sooner.

To answer the first question, no, I dont believe there is a misintrepretation which led to believing in different gods which actually is one, I believe that, in this particular case, there is a non debeatable, at least for me, one god, and only one, the evidences out there are so clear and in numbers, its clearly a fact for any believers that there is only one entity which created it all.In islam however, for a reason I dont particularly understand, God, wanted this diversification of religions.

" O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted" Chapter (49) sūrat l-ḥujurāt (The Dwellings)

I know that telling you that there is a non debeatable one god sound terribly arrogant, ignorant and probably dogmatic, but again, you can watch a multitude of debeates clearing it for you, the last one I saw was the highly respectable Christopher Hitchens, who was an atheist, sitting with Tariq Ramadan who you probably know, I personally learned a lot about many topics and if you have time you can watch it, its in english, but thats not an argument I'm putting, its an invitation.

Abouth the Torah, here is what the Quran says :

" We sent 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) confirming the Taurat (Torah) that had come before him, and We gave him the Injeel (Gospel), in which was guidance and light and confirmation of the Taurat (Torah) that had come before it, a guidance and an admonition for Al-Muttaqun (the pious - see V.2:2). S. 5:46 Al-Hilali & Khan; cf. S. 57:27

God recongnized the existence of previous books, if the Quran wanted to be the superior book, why mentioning previous books ? It isnt a question of which book is inferior superior, its not a competition, the Quran came way after, and was a completation, a book for humanity, thats at least how I see.For about the prophet, I dont know what to say about allegations that in most of the time never had any kind of actual credibilty, if so, they would have been used dozen and dozen of times and fairly so.

A perfect text can be misinterpreted, the human isnt perfect, thats maybe a point you can try to think about.

I dont want to answer verse by verse since I dont have enough knowledge nor enough will, but what I can tell is you, for an example, when the Quran says Fighting is prescribed, thats allright, right next it is written that we'll dislike it, stating how fighting is unnacceptable, I dont want to copy past an exmplanation for this, I just want to state that there is a history in everyline written, those you are stating where written when the prophet was in war, and you know that when the prophet won it he simply let go anyone who was against him, as the biggest statement of how islam is peaceful, so if you learn about the prohpet's life, you'll understand those lines differently.For example now, ISIS are doing exactly what we call fitnah, tarnishing islamic values, do you think the solution is to talk with them ? Its all in the intrepretation.