Realistic expectations for the second half of the season

[Henrique 9,133]

Here's the thing guys,

Do we even want Europa? Lets rewind a little bit to when United crashed out the CL last time and ended up crashing out of the Europa too. They put all their concentration on the league and finishing back in the top 4 that they did so with relative ease.

Liverpool, in their title chasing year with Suarez, were knocked out the Europa League pretty early. Had it not been for us, ironically, they probably would have gone on to win the title that year.

So as bad as it sounds, if we don't finish top 4, I'd rather we finished 9th (just to be safe, because these days even 8th somehow gets you into the EL )

Chelsea won EL in 2013 also got a top 4 finish. I don't believe United finishing top 4 and Liverpool almost winning the league are related with early EL exits. Actually only 5th placed PL team play Europa League. So, only 6th or 7th can play Europa League, as long as both teams that win FA Cup and League Cup are top 5 sides.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Chelsea won EL in 2013 also got a top 4 finish. I don't believe United finishing top 4 and Liverpool almost winning the league are related with early EL exits. Actually only 5th placed PL team play Europa League. So, only 6th or 7th can play Europa League, as long as both teams that win FA Cup and League Cup are top 5 sides.

Yeah, but also you find team are now gaining entry through the 'fair play league' as well, which is why in rare cases even 8th will get you in the EL.

I do accept that a big enough team with depth (as we're supposed to be) can manage both EL & League obligations. But it wouldn't be the worst case if didn't make the EL, would it?

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Yeah, but also you find team are now gaining entry through the 'fair play league' as well, which is why in rare cases even 8th will get you in the EL.

I do accept that a big enough team with depth (as we're supposed to be) can manage both EL & League obligations. But it wouldn't be the worst case if didn't make the EL, would it?

There are pros and cons for Europa League football.

For me, the only major negative is Thursday night football. If it was played on a Tuesday or Wednesday, it wouldn't be much of an issue. Maybe there would be more travelling, but it would be a perfect channel for us to blood some of the youngsters at a fairly high level.

But, if we were to miss out on UCL/UEL football for next year, it would give our title challenge a bit of a lift. No need to worry about travelling to Ukraine before a Saturday mid-day kick-off at the Etihad. We'd have longer to prepare for games and I do think our league ambitions would be more easily fulfilled.

[Ossie the King 634]

There are pros and cons for Europa League football.

For me, the only major negative is Thursday night football. If it was played on a Tuesday or Wednesday, it wouldn't be much of an issue. Maybe there would be more travelling, but it would be a perfect channel for us to blood some of the youngsters at a fairly high level.

But, if we were to miss out on UCL/UEL football for next year, it would give our title challenge a bit of a lift. No need to worry about travelling to Ukraine before a Saturday mid-day kick-off at the Etihad. We'd have longer to prepare for games and I do think our league ambitions would be more easily fulfilled.

I do admire your optimism but it's way too early to be talking title challenges next season. I think realistically we're looking at survival this year and rebuilding for a couple of seasons. If City and United get the managers we expect, then we aren't likely to be contenders.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

I do admire your optimism but it's way too early to be talking title challenges next season. I think realistically we're looking at survival this year and rebuilding for a couple of seasons. If City and United get the managers we expect, then we aren't likely to be contenders.

I disagree. Should we get a manager in the Simeone or Guardiola mould, we'll be challengers.

[Ossie the King 634]

I disagree. Should we get a manager in the Simeone or Guardiola mould, we'll be challengers.

We aren't getting pep and Simeone wants more control than is currently possible. Plus we need at least 6 additional players.

My opinion is that the club is in huge trouble. Survival this season is the highest of expectations. Beyond that we need to make massive changes but no one seems prepared to make them.

[Blue_Fox_ 2,086]

I disagree. Should we get a manager in the Simeone or Guardiola mould, we'll be challengers.

If City gets Guardiola and United gets José, last year's titles will be the last one for a couple of years. I just hope we'll get a Simeone or Conte kind of manager, all these talks about Rodgers and Pellegrini have me scared.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

We aren't getting pep and Simeone wants more control than is currently possible. Plus we need at least 6 additional players.

My opinion is that the club is in huge trouble. Survival this season is the highest of expectations. Beyond that we need to make massive changes but no one seems prepared to make them.

I really do wonder when we're going to come out of this cycle the club has of 'nearly' building a long-term team. We simply haven't managed to do it, ironically enough, since Mourinho built the last one (with the help of Ranieri). Go figure

[Ossie the King 634]

I really do wonder when we're going to come out of this cycle the club has of 'nearly' building a long-term team. We simply haven't managed to do it, ironically enough, since Mourinho built the last one (with the help of Ranieri). Go figure

When the owner changes his ways or goes. He makes the same mistakes over and over again. Some may say that's rehiring Mourinho, others may say it's going from Grant to Emenalo. Either way, he's ultimately the one holding us back or leading us forward.

[Blue_Fox_ 2,086]

I really do wonder when we're going to come out of this cycle the club has of 'nearly' building a long-term team. We simply haven't managed to do it, ironically enough, since Mourinho built the last one (with the help of Ranieri). Go figure

That's because we are masters of getting a job half done. Look no further than last summer after winning the title.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

That's because we are masters of getting a job half done. Look no further than last summer after winning the title.

Indeed.. Alluded it to it a few days ago, but very similar to when Carlo won the Double. Great achievement but lack of vision and foresight cost him & us.

[Ossie the King 634]

Indeed.. Alluded it to it a few days ago, but very similar to when Carlo won the Double. Great achievement but lack of vision and foresight cost him & us.

Yup. Spend just £23 million on Ramires and Benayoun (!) and then panic in January by buying Torres.

No vision then, spend a few years buying youngsters, then bring in Jose and do something else, win the league and then underinvest again. Ridiculous chain of events.

[Laylabelle 9,539]

Win a few games in a row?be nice to be surprised

[dee25 1,044]

Win a few games in a row?be nice to be surprised

You stole mine.

I think the last time we strung together 5 consecutive wins was 2013/14 season.

[Tomo 21,751]

In the league their is still 57 points to play for, we have to aim for at least 40 to put us on 60, where that puts us in the table depends on others, but we have to aim for that to put some respectability back in this campaign.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

We aren't getting pep and Simeone wants more control than is currently possible. Plus we need at least 6 additional players.

My opinion is that the club is in huge trouble. Survival this season is the highest of expectations. Beyond that we need to make massive changes but no one seems prepared to make them.

Each to their own, but you can't possible claim to know that we won't get Pep or Simeone. The additional six players isn't a problem thanks to the millions being pumped in through TV revenues. This is a blip, a bad season. We will need years to rebuild sufficiently but we will not roll back into the dark ages for a decade like Arsenal did, as some people think.

If City gets Guardiola and United gets José, last year's titles will be the last one for a couple of years. I just hope we'll get a Simeone or Conte kind of manager, all these talks about Rodgers and Pellegrini have me scared.

José will destroy United's long-term future for a couple of seasons of success, as he's done here.

[Ossie the King 634]

Each to their own, but you can't possible claim to know that we won't get Pep or Simeone.

We definitely aren't getting Pep. Simeone is a longer shot and would require a reorganisation of certain responsibilities at the club

The additional six players isn't a problem thanks to the millions being pumped in through TV revenues. This is a blip, a bad season. We will need years to rebuild sufficiently but we will not roll back into the dark ages for a decade like Arsenal did, as some people think.

José will destroy United's long-term future for a couple of seasons of success, as he's done here.

The problem is that EVERY club in the league is getting richer, which is why Everton could reject our overtures to John Stones. You have teams like West Ham buying talent like Payet as well, so the whole marketplace is becoming inflated.

The whole 'long-term future' thing is a little overplayed. Yes we amassed a lot of decent, appreciating talent but that doesn't give you a team. What you need is someone to build that team and Jose did that. He made us league champions and then we stopped giving him the backing he needed. He was undermined when it came to Cech and he was let down when it came to Stones and other targets.

It's why I'm pessimistic because I don't see any of that changing whilst the current board are still in charge. They've stumbled their way to success and benefitted from their massive buying power for much of the last decade, but we can't do that anymore. City can (and do) outspend us and have a far better team in place, and United won't be paying off interest forever. Now is the time for us to rebuild right from the top down, but we won't because the biggest obstacle to that is Roman himself. That's where my lack of optimism comes from.

[Tomo 21,751]

We definitely aren't getting Pep. Simeone is a longer shot and would require a reorganisation of certain responsibilities at the club

The problem is that EVERY club in the league is getting richer, which is why Everton could reject our overtures to John Stones. You have teams like West Ham buying talent like Payet as well, so the whole marketplace is becoming inflated.

The whole 'long-term future' thing is a little overplayed. Yes we amassed a lot of decent, appreciating talent but that doesn't give you a team. What you need is someone to build that team and Jose did that. He made us league champions and then we stopped giving him the backing he needed. He was undermined when it came to Cech and he was let down when it came to Stones and other targets.

It's why I'm pessimistic because I don't see any of that changing whilst the current board are still in charge. They've stumbled their way to success and benefitted from their massive buying power for much of the last decade, but we can't do that anymore. City can (and do) outspend us and have a far better team in place, and United won't be paying off interest forever. Now is the time for us to rebuild right from the top down, but we won't because the biggest obstacle to that is Roman himself. That's where my lack of optimism comes from.

We tend to rest on our laurels a bit when in top and that's a big problem, but in the past when we've been in a bit of bother and needed to spend we have, January 2011, Summer 2012 and too a lesser extent January 2014.

Can see us splashing a lot in January and the summer, late but better late than never.

[Ossie the King 634]

We tend to rest on our laurels a bit when in top and that's a big problem, but in the past when we've been in a bit of bother and needed to spend we have, January 2011, Summer 2012 and too a lesser extent January 2014.

Can see us splashing a lot in January and the summer, late but better late than never.

The issue is the person doing the targeting.

Truth is that to get the real problems out of this club, we might need to go through relegation and spend a long-time rebuilding.

[Laylabelle 9,539]

You stole mine.

I think the last time we strung together 5 consecutive wins was 2013/14 season.

oh wow ages ago!

this season 2 league wins in a row be nice haha..it's still crazy we're going into January winning a game a month