Radamel Falcao

[Manuf 1,448]

it's so easy to make torres look world class with fancy pictures and explanations. giving him credit for just running.

[Rmpr 8,977]

Torres gave 13 key passes this season, only Mata 17 and Hazard 18 have more. But he can't fucking stay on his feet on the ball, not even speaking about link up the play

Torres has 4 goals out of 7 shots on target and 17 shots. But he still can't fucking shoot or score.

We could do that to Falcao either, but since he runs in the right direction he gets the ball and scores. BOOM...12 goals so far.

Btw, the best example of Torres would be Mata`s second goal and you did not even put it there.

[Funkyflashman 187]

Torres gave 13 key passes this season, only Mata 17 and Hazard 18 have more. But he can't fucking stay on his feet on the ball, not even speaking about link up the play

Torres has 4 goals out of 7 shots on target and 17 shots. But he still can't fucking shoot or score.

Look at that:

Is Torres seriously expecting to get the ball from Ramires with that sort of movement ? Considering Gallas' position, arguably not. But just look at the space it frees behind Caulker (#33). Who gets Ramires' service? Mata who shots twice at goal (and maybe should have scored).

Do you expect that sort of false call from a natural goalscorer? Of course not, if Agüero or Dzeko makes that sort of run and doesn't get the ball they simply get mental to their team mate.

Look at Mata's goal: that's a counter attack and the balls comes to Ivanovic who crosses the ball onto the penalty spot.

Hazard runs at full speed in the penalty box whereas Torres stays backwards after a jogging run, not because he's afraid of coming into the box but to be at the right place on a 2nd ball. That's very hard for a center back who would prefer to know that the striker is bombing in their back, and then, adapt their defending to it.

Here, they don't know what Torres is doing, Gallas even checks behind before getting into the penalty spot. Mata has also stayed behind for a similar reason to Torres', to get into the box or be separated with a late run.

That's what makes Gallas' clearance that weird because he sees that Torres stayed exactly where he didn't want to. We often say to youngsters (and even after) to send back the ball from where it came. Because there it would precisely make Gallas giving the ball to Torres (couldn't clear far away from his body position), he's forced to change his mind at the last second and clears the ball elsewhere (who proves to be even worse).

Usually that's the defensive midfield's role to cover the axis and be aware of the 2nd balls cleared by the defense. Here, there's nobody in between the CBs, nobody tracked back Mata, Gallas couldn't clear the ball from where it came...

That's two schoolcases of Torres' contribution, very basic but crucial. What a natural goalscorer isn't eager to do. Just look at how Agüero plays and moves to understand how a goalscorer wants his team to play as he wants to.

I feel obligated to raise a concern similar to Manuf's...

The explanation is fantastic in theory, but as Manuf said, it's perfectly plausible that it's just poor attacking third movement and Torres is in essence just running about. You say that he makes the run to make space for Mata, but for me anyway, it's far more likely that Mata, with his fantastic football brain, sees the poor run and exploits the space. In which case, great, Torres freed up space, but can we honestly say he means to.

The first picture for me is telling. Let's assume you're right, and that it's a false run. Wouldn't you rather have a striker attack that space and shoot...? Honestly? I would. I get the feeling that you put Falcao in that space, he's going to time his burst into space and put it away, not drift off towards the corner flag and hope that someone else times it well...

My two cents. I for one don't buy it I'm afraid. But I respect your opinion. If he keeps doing the same then perhaps I'll come round to your explanation but until then...

[TheCount 146]

A professional midfielder enjoys the ball something like 2 minutes per game. All the 88 minutes left is running.

So, yeah, basically playing football is technical abilities relying on your ability to use a sufficient athletic potential, and showing the intelligence to be at the right place to contribute to make your team winning.

This,

You also didnt say or make him look world class you said basic schoolcases of contribution lol, apparantly basic footballing skills are world class in this age of if you dont beat 15 defenders by yourself your shit XD

[Kojo 4,676]

Torres gave 13 key passes this season, only Mata 17 and Hazard 18 have more. But he can't fucking stay on his feet on the ball, not even speaking about link up the play

Torres has 4 goals out of 7 shots on target and 17 shots. But he still can't fucking shoot or score.

Look at that:

Is Torres seriously expecting to get the ball from Ramires with that sort of movement ? Considering Gallas' position, arguably not. But just look at the space it frees behind Caulker (#33). Who gets Ramires' service? Mata who shots twice at goal (and maybe should have scored).

Do you expect that sort of false call from a natural goalscorer? Of course not, if Agüero or Dzeko makes that sort of run and doesn't get the ball they simply get mental to their team mate.

Look at Mata's goal: that's a counter attack and the balls comes to Ivanovic who crosses the ball onto the penalty spot.

Hazard runs at full speed in the penalty box whereas Torres stays backwards after a jogging run, not because he's afraid of coming into the box but to be at the right place on a 2nd ball. That's very hard for a center back who would prefer to know that the striker is bombing in their back, and then, adapt their defending to it.

Here, they don't know what Torres is doing, Gallas even checks behind before getting into the penalty spot. Mata has also stayed behind for a similar reason to Torres', to get into the box or be separated with a late run.

That's what makes Gallas' clearance that weird because he sees that Torres stayed exactly where he didn't want to. We often say to youngsters (and even after) to send back the ball from where it came. Because there it would precisely make Gallas giving the ball to Torres (couldn't clear far away from his body position), he's forced to change his mind at the last second and clears the ball elsewhere (who proves to be even worse).

Usually that's the defensive midfield's role to cover the axis and be aware of the 2nd balls cleared by the defense. Here, there's nobody in between the CBs, nobody tracked back Mata, Gallas couldn't clear the ball from where it came...

That's two schoolcases of Torres' contribution, very basic but crucial. What a natural goalscorer isn't eager to do. Just look at how Agüero plays and moves to understand how a goalscorer wants his team to play as he wants to.

You do hold a good point there, especially at the 2nd one. The only thing he probably could've done in the right, is clear it for a corner, should've done to be fair. But with AVB's mentallity who always likes to get back into the game and run it, he was probably told to try and keep the ball as much as we can and get on the counter attack.

So things aren't as simple as we see them, as we don't know what happens in the background do we.

But what you also need to consider Seb, is that besides just one game, look at a season overall. Will a goal scoring striker benefit us overall?, because that's the main thing. Maybe we had lost the Spurs game had we someone like Aguero, or maybe we would've won it anyway because Aguero would've netted 3 that game.

I do think it's unrealistic that a striker can just jump into the team and we will score more goals, because there's always side effects. If the team scores goals then that's great.

I think we need a team playing forward, rather than a goal scorer, I've said this. Mainly due to the fact we've never really had a goal scoring striker what has worked for us in Roman times, where as Drogs was more of a team player, goals just came with him.

The only reason i don't want Falcao here is mainly because he's too expensive, i don't like paying out too much. Especially if it doesn't work, but it 90 percent will, as he's too good to not do well. But i want to benefit us most, i think a team player, someone who tends to open up the defence for others. As Torres did twice there, but lets face it. Torres is shit, despite what he did there he's still crap, and it's best to get a replacement. I don't know what striker can do it though, but i would still have Falcao here as he's a top striker.

[xPetrCechx 13,563]

Maybe Sometimes he going to the right places, but the misses...

[Rmpr 8,977]

Maybe Sometimes he going to the right places, but the misses...

How can he miss if he does not shoot?

I would accept a miss...

[Kojo 4,676]

Maybe Sometimes he going to the right places, but the misses...

Come on, do we really have to bring his wife into this.

[xPetrCechx 13,563]

How can he miss if he does not shoot?

I would accept a miss...

yeah.... the chance in the end against spuds... few chances against norwich,nordsjælland....

and the second one against spuds, when he like: run run run run run ( i don't want to shoot), run run run, losses the ball.

[xPetrCechx 13,563]

How can he miss if he does not shoot?

I would accept a miss...

How many times i watched chelsea's game and shout : WTF u r doing?! ( when he losses the ball or missed the goal)...

[Rmpr 8,977]

At the beginning of the season I posted here I wanted to see full support for Torres. I really thought Didider was making him unconfortable.

I was so wrong, he did not improve much, he simply does not take chances. That is why he has 7 target shots and 4 goals, he only shoots with 90%+ chance of goal.

[Yeboii 1,844]

How fun it will be when Torres is sold and threads will actually be about the topic

[Rmpr 8,977]

Haha what's the fuck here ? He shooted 17 times in 7 or 8 games, what's that 90% crap ?

7 on target, shots (overall) dont count much, they are biased and arent the same numenber depending on your criteria.

All your arguments pro Torres can be made for Falcao and improved.

Leave your fanaticism aside please...

EDIT: Maybe I shouldnt have written "90%", but it was clear that I meant Nando only shoots with a clear goal opportunity. He does not take his chances/risk.

[Muzchap 8,966]

A professional midfielder enjoys the ball something like 2 minutes per game. All the 88 minutes left is running.

So, yeah, basically playing football is technical abilities relying on your ability to use a sufficient athletic potential, and showing the intelligence to be at the right place to contribute to make your team winning.

Trouble is and what you clearly do not understand is Torres is a Striker - not a midfielder...

All of your pretty pictures show the same thing - poor defending...

Here's a simple question...

If you could start Torres or Falcao tomorrow - who would you start with?

Anything else need to be said? Anymore pictures need to be drawn? Thought not...

[themightyblue 443]

Torres gave 13 key passes this season, only Mata 17 and Hazard 18 have more. But he can't fucking stay on his feet on the ball, not even speaking about link up the play

Torres has 4 goals out of 7 shots on target and 17 shots. But he still can't fucking shoot or score.

Look at that:

Is Torres seriously expecting to get the ball from Ramires with that sort of movement ? Considering Gallas' position, arguably not. But just look at the space it frees behind Caulker (#33). Who gets Ramires' service? Mata who shots twice at goal (and maybe should have scored).

Do you expect that sort of false call from a natural goalscorer? Of course not, if Agüero or Dzeko makes that sort of run and doesn't get the ball they simply get mental to their team mate.

Look at Mata's goal: that's a counter attack and the balls comes to Ivanovic who crosses the ball onto the penalty spot.

Hazard runs at full speed in the penalty box whereas Torres stays backwards after a jogging run, not because he's afraid of coming into the box but to be at the right place on a 2nd ball. That's very hard for a center back who would prefer to know that the striker is bombing in their back, and then, adapt their defending to it.

Here, they don't know what Torres is doing, Gallas even checks behind before getting into the penalty spot. Mata has also stayed behind for a similar reason to Torres', to get into the box or be separated with a late run.

That's what makes Gallas' clearance that weird because he sees that Torres stayed exactly where he didn't want to. We often say to youngsters (and even after) to send back the ball from where it came. Because there it would precisely make Gallas giving the ball to Torres (couldn't clear far away from his body position), he's forced to change his mind at the last second and clears the ball elsewhere (who proves to be even worse).

Usually that's the defensive midfield's role to cover the axis and be aware of the 2nd balls cleared by the defense. Here, there's nobody in between the CBs, nobody tracked back Mata, Gallas couldn't clear the ball from where it came...

That's two schoolcases of Torres' contribution, very basic but crucial. What a natural goalscorer isn't eager to do. Just look at how Agüero plays and moves to understand how a goalscorer wants his team to play as he wants to.

The first point you've raised is a huge assumption. For all we know Torres may have been hoping that Ramires will draw the man(gallas) and then play the ball through to Torres. I also don't get this idea that Torres has become a 'team player', yes he's adapted his game to become an all rounder and more complete player, but ask any striker what there main objective is and this goals. Torres may have just been clever in his movement to allow the space here, but equally when a striker sees someone making a run like Ramires did, 9 times out of 10 there looking to get into a position where they can score a goal. It's just what a striker's mentality is and what it should be like. But anyway we can't be predicting what Torres' intentions were because we don't know.

I downloaded the game and just watched Mata's first goal, Torres doesn't jog in in order to collect the 2nd ball at all. Before the cross comes in Mata has the ball and Torres make a run off the last shoulder of the defender in the hope of a through ball which Mata doesn't deliver. Instead it goes to Ivanovic and in that whole period Torres' eyesight is fixed firmly on Ivanovic in the hope of recieving the ball on the edge of the area unmarked. You've completely just gone and given Torres so much credit, he has not intention of looking to win that 2nd ball because if he did his eyes would have been firmly on the defenders in order to judge there positioning so that he could collect that 2nd ball, but the fact is he wasn't. He was looking to receive it from Ivanovic with a low cross in.

So i'm not too sure what your trying to prove with those two examples, because there not showing anything. I completely understand the fact about Torres being a well rounded striker and its this reason why i'd prefer to see Neymar join in January rather than Falcao, but in those two examples given and in particular the last one they just as much show Torres wanting to be the goal scorer rather than 'team player'

What we're also assuming here is that natural goalscorers don't contribute much to the team. The thing with most natural goalscorers is that they have superb movement, if you have superb movement then your either opening up space for yourself to recieve a pass or your dragging a defender along with you who's trying to shut down the space you've created. This has just as many benefits to the team than a striker making a run to open space for someone like Mata. We shouldn't make the mistake that just because a player is a goalscorer it means there greedy and selfish. This is something that Falcao isn't. He isn't a goalscorer because he's greedy and selfish, but because he's so clinical when the chance is presented to him. 9 times out of 10 he'll finish it. That's what makes him a goalscorer

[Muzchap 8,966]

That's amazing, I feel like pushing an open door...

You didn't understood the midfielder thing ? So I'll explain it to you: if a midfielder enjoys the ball 2 minutes, it's probably 4 times less for a striker (who plays around 25 passes per game compared to the 50 or 60 a midfielder does). So running is probably 89mn30seconds of a striker's game

My answer is simple: which team ? Which animation/pattern ?

I don't give a fuck about Torres, I wanted Džeko in the first place. But let's just give the guy the credit he deserves, no need to mention the £50m, that's not what makes you running quicker or pass through an opponent as if he was porous.

For Chelsea's current pattern of play with 3 goalscoring attacking midfielders, that's Torres any day of the week.

If I'm Harry Redknapp and I assess my team to play long balls and use a lot of crosses, with wingers or full backs providing genuine width, that's Falcao anyday of the week

Sigh bored of this...

Torres is shit deal with it.

You can explain away what you want - other people disprove it.

Dzeko is less likely than Falcao.

I hope Torres scores a hatrick today, that's more likely than us agreeing at the min

Lol

[fAnta 107]

I can't belive an argument about torres v 52 goal in whole season falcao is still going on.

Some people here are demeaning falcao to a fox in the box. Have you ever seen a falcao game? really? He helps the team in build up but unlike torres makes the runs a striker is meant to and scores his chances as well. dont talk about this as an exclusive component of torres's game please.

we have mata,hazard and oscar all looking to feed torres and ivanovic and cole crossing the ball in. The striker has aerial and shooting oppurtunys at the feet. We need a player with the aerial threat to meet these balls, who better than falcao a player who inesta described in his description of the perfect player in this aspect.

If you tell any neutral everybody though torres would be banging in goals for fun with that service everyone did.

I'm tired of seeing torres miss a chance when its 0-0 and then the other team scores 5 minutes later. also falcao will score the game winning goals not just the wins where the points are already in the bag.

falcao would thrive in this team, infact any striker would. this guy can really help us and who can say no to the best striker in the world?

[Spike 12,049]

At one moment in time there was a sensible debate living, thriving here but sadly as the nature of the universe dictates: time destoys all things ("le temps détruit tout" - an often controversial and always disturing Argentine). What was once a thing of beauty and enlightenment has fallen into the realm of "pissing contests", each man (or woman!) attempting to one up the other in a show of power and superiority.