Combined Real Madrid/Chelsea XI

[Nike 373]

This is how I see it. In terms of finishing, they are about equal although Ronaldo takes more penalty and has alot more shots per game on average. In other areas however ( Antonio Valencia is stronger and more physical than messi, Chamakh is better than messi in the air) i.e things that actually matter like Vision, creativity, passing, overall technical ability,football IQ, messi is light years and I mean light years ahead of Ronaldo that it's not even close from a non biased neutral's perspective and that's why most pundits and fans all over the world consider Messi not just a better player but also one of the games all time great right up there with the pele, maradona, Di stefano et al.

Not really. Messi is better finisher, but cr7 has better power, which allows him to take all those long shots from the left and long fks.....

But I agree, it shouldnt even be a question who the better player is....

Doesnt really matter because the real ronaldo is better than both of them.

[Chelsea? 892]

Modric would start over Cesc.

James and Eden would battle it out for the #10 spot unless you put Eden as the RW

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

Modric would start over Cesc.

James and Eden would battle it out for the #10 spot unless you put Eden as the RW

Hazard has spent most of his Chelsea career playing left wing but he's been brilliant as a 10.

Hazard, playing mostly as a 10 had something like 22 goals and 21 assists in Ligue 1 combined with numerous performances of the unplayable variety in his last season at Lille. It's a bit of an aberration to even consider James battling out with him. He's a vastly superior player.

[Chelsea? 892]

Hazard has spent most of his Chelsea career playing left wing but he's been brilliant as a 10.

Hazard, playing mostly as a 10 had something like 22 goals and 21 assists in Ligue 1 combined with numerous performances of the unplayable variety in his last season at Lille. It's a bit of an aberration to even consider James battling out with him. He's a vastly superior player.

no,he is not. certaintly not at #10. You don't have to go back to his Ligue 1 days to assess his ability, just look at his performances for us and you'll come to the conclusion that he would need to battle for a spot at Madrid.

[Joker10 946]

This is how I see it. In terms of finishing, they are about equal although Ronaldo takes more penalty and has alot more shots per game on average. In other areas however ( Antonio Valencia is stronger and more physical than messi, Chamakh is better than messi in the air) i.e things that actually matter like Vision, creativity, passing, overall technical ability,football IQ, messi is light years and I mean light years ahead of Ronaldo that it's not even close from a non biased neutral's perspective and that's why most pundits and fans all over the world consider Messi not just a better player but also one of the games all time great right up there with the pele, maradona, Di stefano et al.

So you list everything that favors Messi. Messi is by far the better player on the ball, but off the ball movement is eqaully important for me. Ronaldo is one of the best i have seen without the ball and on the counter. When most see a tap in he scores, i see a player with great instinct, timing, and precision. He makes great runs from the left flank on extradionary rate.

I really don't see why the amount of shots he takes is taken with so much negativity, he is player that gets in those position in the first place and for me it belongs to him. If he is not playing, those shots oppertunites would not happen. Anyway he is taking around 6.5 shots, not 10 like some have suggested.

Ronaldo is a better finisher and more clinical then Messi at the moment. I don't care Ronaldo takes more shot then Messi that means nothing to me, Messi is more conservative with his shots and Ronaldo is more likely to shot from a impossible angle. Watching both play, for me i can certainly say Ronaldo is better. In fact Messi has lost a lot in this department, he is not as clincial and great finisher he was a few years ago, Prime Messi would have made that shot in the early minutes of todays game.

As for your last statement, neither player is retiring any time soon they still have a lot of football ahead of him. I wouldn't make a conclusion on their career right now, because who knows what twists and turn is in store for their career. While i did consider Messi as the best player in the world a few years ago, but at the moment Ronaldo is the better player. Messi has digressed, and Ronaldo is as good as he ever was. He has surpased him, he will win his 3rd Ballon d'or award this year, and i quite frankly i don't see him slowing down.

To conclude i do think Messi has had a better career overall, but it certainly can change for me.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

no,he is not. certaintly not at #10. You don't have to go back to his Ligue 1 days to assess his ability, just look at his performances for us and you'll come to the conclusion that he would need to battle for a spot at Madrid.

I don't understand what you're talking about, mate. I'm not sure who you're referring to .

[lionsden 4,689]

So you list everything that favors Messi. Messi is by far the better player on the ball, but off the ball movement is eqaully important for me. Ronaldo is one of the best i have seen without the ball and on the counter. When most see a tap in he scores, i see a player with great instinct, timing, and precision. He makes great runs from the left flank on extradionary rate.

This is very difficult for most Ronaldo fans (and I don't mean that in a derogatory manner) to accept. Also doesn't the fact that despite Ronaldo being a vastly superior athlete to messi (unfair advantage as a result of winning the genetic lotto) is still overall an inferior player to messi over the course of their careers reflect favourably on Messi? The fact that Messi is able to achieve similar goals stats and vastly superior assist and chances created stats over the last 7 years despite the genetic disadvantage is quite impressive really and shows who has more talent. As for the last part, all great/good poachers do that so it's nothing unique or impressive.

I really don't see why the amount of shots he takes is taken with so much negativity, he is player that gets in those position in the first place and for me it belongs to him. If he is not playing, those shots oppertunites would not happen. Anyway he is taking around 6.5 shots, not 10 like some have suggested.

I can not agree with that. From a fundamental and team perspective it's wrong to take too many shots in the sense that it's a sign of selfishness (As a striker, Centre forward I know who I had rather play with between him and Messi) think of the moral on the team for a minute the fact that he takes many shots clearly indicates that he's passing less to his team mates and often making the wrong decisions. why should a striker or midfielder make lung bursting runs to the box when they know that 9x out of 10 they will never receive the ball as Ronaldo would take that shot even from ridiculous angles.It also rubs the team of a potential goal scoring opportunity when a simple square pass to a player in a better position to score would actually improve the teams chance of scoring than Ronaldo blasting it over the bar at stupid angles.

Also you had expect better decision making from a player that's suppose to be "the best player in the world" and has spent many years in the top flight league. when a youngster has poor decision making, people say its a sign of immaturity and it will improve with time. what's Ronaldo's excuse?

The most important reason however why the amount of shot he takes matters especially in relations to the messi comparison is "efficiency. It's all about efficiency. It's better to score one goal with 2 attempts than with 6 or 7 attempts.

[Atlas Lion 1,223]

Neymar now has 8goals in 9 games, 0pks....

After coming back from his injury in the world cup....

When neymar beats both messi and cr7 record, I hope the same people that said messi and cr7 in the greatest of all time conversation, says the same argument for neymar since goals>better.

At Neymar's age, (22) Messi scored 47 goals in the 2009-10 season.

If Neymar wants to even be a pitch's length away from Messi's goal scoring record, he should probably pick up the pace, which in all reality won't probably happen.

[illmatic 901]

-----------Courtois---

Ivan - Terry - Varane - Luiz

------ Matic - Modric--------

Hazard -- Cesc------ CR7

---------- Costa ------------

[iseah100 5,612]

Let's do a Bayern one!

[Viper22 2,418]

its the opposite.

Messi to me is the best player in his generaton, but you should look at the thread in most controversy.

I am definitely not a messi fanboy, but Messi is better than cr7

That's pretty much an oxymoron right there. Anyone but Messi fanboys can see Ronaldo is currently better than Messi. Messi was better 1-2 years ago which wasn't even up for debate, he was awesome. If he recaptures that form then he'll likely once again be the best in the world. But in recent times Messi's form has dropped (unsurprising, you can't keep that kind of awesomeness up) and Ronaldo's has drastically increased. And they're both very similar in natural ability so the best at the present time has to be the one who is more on form currently - which is Ronaldo hands down.

[DYC. 7,542]

So you list everything that favors Messi. Messi is by far the better player on the ball, but off the ball movement is eqaully important for me. Ronaldo is one of the best i have seen without the ball and on the counter. When most see a tap in he scores, i see a player with great instinct, timing, and precision. He makes great runs from the left flank on extradionary rate.

I really don't see why the amount of shots he takes is taken with so much negativity, he is player that gets in those position in the first place and for me it belongs to him. If he is not playing, those shots oppertunites would not happen. Anyway he is taking around 6.5 shots, not 10 like some have suggested.

Ronaldo is a better finisher and more clinical then Messi at the moment. I don't care Ronaldo takes more shot then Messi that means nothing to me, Messi is more conservative with his shots and Ronaldo is more likely to shot from a impossible angle. Watching both play, for me i can certainly say Ronaldo is better. In fact Messi has lost a lot in this department, he is not as clincial and great finisher he was a few years ago, Prime Messi would have made that shot in the early minutes of todays game.

As for your last statement, neither player is retiring any time soon they still have a lot of football ahead of him. I wouldn't make a conclusion on their career right now, because who knows what twists and turn is in store for their career. While i did consider Messi as the best player in the world a few years ago, but at the moment Ronaldo is the better player. Messi has digressed, and Ronaldo is as good as he ever was. He has surpased him, he will win his 3rd Ballon d'or award this year, and i quite frankly i don't see him slowing down.

To conclude i do think Messi has had a better career overall, but it certainly can change for me.

Agree. On the ball there is no competition between the two. But Barca had three players yesterday that can come up with some real magic but what's the point of possessing that sort of class when you can't produce when it matters anymore? Messi's performances against good opponents have been very worrying since 2013. He's been performing so well this season so I was hoping for a vintage performance but he looked like a old man yesterday. This is not the Messi I like to see. For all his ability and class, when he performs like that, he is definitely not the best player. Ronaldo was poor yesterday but that was rather surprising. Real were abusing them on the counter and he usually kills his opponent in games like that.

Ronaldo is not the best player when you look at his overall game. And because of that, he is far from being one of my favourite players. But average is taking too far. He is very good, and on his day he can be quite impressive. Just recently he played a great overall game, don't remember against who though. Of course not to be compared with Messi in his prime or other greats from the past.

His qualities as a player can not be underestimated though. When it comes to athletisicm and power, he blows everyone away. His relentless attacking of space, incredible movement/positioning and reactions to get on the end of passes and crossing are legendary. Not to forget his heading and finishing are among the best of all-time. Ronaldo takes a lot of shots but when you talk about converting chances, you'll rarely see him mess up a good opportunity. And he also manages to put the ball in the net when it's not really a chance. His goal-scoring record alone makes him an insane player. Can't imagine how you feel as a defender when you know you have to face him.. That fear already gives you a huge advantage.

We're talking about Portugal's all-time highest goal-scorer and it's only a matter of time before he becomes Real #1 goal-scorer, averaging over a goal a game. And if Messi continues like this, Ronaldo will end up as the CL as #1 on the top-scorers list. That's absolutely ridiculous. And at the end of the day, football is about winning and goals win games.

Let's do a Bayern one!

Have you seen Bayern's system? It's the most confusing system I have ever seen. They play something like a 3-1-3-3 formation, with constant changes in the shape and positions.

[Styles 9,790]

I counted 8 counters he messed up.....

If willian messes up 1-2, this board wants his head....

Cr7 can never be a great of all time primarily because of this. His passing is terrible and he needs 10 shots to score 1-2 goals a game, which is why for portugal he sucks balls because on portugal he can never get as many opportunites as he does for madrid...

On redcafe..

He was Barcelona's best defender today. Broke up more Madrid attacks than Pique and Mascherano

People who understand that football is more than just goals already recognise Ronaldo's exceedingly average all round game and football IQ. I have always seen him as a pacy goal machine and nothing more

people are too blinded by his goals (which are vitally important ofcourse) to see how poor he usually his in the build up play and decision making like shooting from ridiculous angle when a simple pass would suffice. His technical ability and qualities (Passing, Vision, close control and ability to play in tight spaces) are all very overrated too. that's a major reason I can never rate him amongst the very elite to ever play the game. The true football elites captured people's imagination and inspired their teams in more ways than just scoring goals.

To me he's an elite forward/striker but not an elite footballer.

Both right.

Ronaldo is a great goalscorer, that's not even in question, but as an all-round player he can be ridiculously average. His passing, vision, playmaking ability etc all leave a lot to be desired. Honestly, this guy is supposedly the best player in the world but you can't trust him to make relatively simple passes even when in acres of space. This is the guy people beat players like Hazard about and say he's not on that level and never will be etc and it's an absolute joke.

[Nike 373]

At Neymar's age, (22) Messi scored 47 goals in the 2009-10 season.

If Neymar wants to even be a pitch's length away from Messi's goal scoring record, he should probably pick up the pace, which in all reality won't probably happen.

Neymar is at 9 goals in 8 games after coming back from his big injury being option number 2-3......

Messi at that age was option 1 and the team revolve around Messi... Messi is still probably always going to be the overall better player, but it wouldnt surprise me if Neymar beat both cr7/messi single year record...

[Nike 373]

That's pretty much an oxymoron right there. Anyone but Messi fanboys can see Ronaldo is currently better than Messi. Messi was better 1-2 years ago which wasn't even up for debate, he was awesome. If he recaptures that form then he'll likely once again be the best in the world. But in recent times Messi's form has dropped (unsurprising, you can't keep that kind of awesomeness up) and Ronaldo's has drastically increased. And they're both very similar in natural ability so the best at the present time has to be the one who is more on form currently - which is Ronaldo hands down.

Actually, every professional footballer thinks Messi is a better player than cr7....

cr7 so called form is due to him taking 10 shots a game.

And in football terms, no their natural ability is at 2 different levels... One knows had to dribble at players, the other excels at useless stepovers. Something, Neymar has in his repetoire sadly...

Scoring goals is not being better, if that was the case, lampard would be the greatest cm ever when everyone outside of england and even outside of london disagrees.

[Nike 373]

Doesn't matter...

This guy is better than both of them...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_C9CsERXnE

[Viper22 2,418]

Actually, every professional footballer thinks Messi is a better player than cr7....

cr7 so called form is due to him taking 10 shots a game.

And in football terms, no their natural ability is at 2 different levels... One knows had to dribble at players, the other excels at useless stepovers. Something, Neymar has in his repetoire sadly...

Scoring goals is not being better, if that was the case, lampard would be the greatest cm ever when everyone outside of england and even outside of london disagrees.

You do know the Ballon d'Or is voted for by players too yeah? And Ronaldo won it last year and is odds on to win it this year?

Ronaldo only excels at useless stepovers? Dear god. I'm done with this if that is truly what you think. You're beyond help.

[Nike 373]

You do know the Ballon d'Or is voted for by players too yeah? And Ronaldo won it last year and is odds on to win it this year?

You see how players voted right???

They all voted for their teammates and friends.....

Or maybe the fact that cr7 gave alves the captain votes so alves can vote for cr7, lol....

cr7 won the award because he bitched about the award and for some reason they extended the voting right after he put past 4 against sweden in a playoff game...