Nemanja Matic

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

Henrique doing his best for attention again. Gotta love it.

[Henrique 9,133]

Henrique doing his best for attention again. Gotta love it.

I forgot, you are the guy who turn your posts into topics for the "sake of visibility" when you get ignored.

But I won't spend more time with you, I already know your destiny: you will get banned as others spammers (capriccioso, Orange Has Kono Flash, Phil Driver), or you will become the politically correct nice guy and will turn into a Moderator.

One last advise newbie one:

[Henrique 9,133]

Is he a top 5 CDM in the world?

I think he started no more than 10 games for us, and I dont watch portuguese league, how can I evaluate him based a couple of games? What do you know about Matic?

[The Skipper 20,593]

Can you imagine playing in any other position rather than DM? Can you imagine Matic switching from defensive to offensive position in matches? Can you imagine Matic in the box scoring a goal after an assist from Hazard or William?

He does what a typical DM is supposed to do: he play in front of the CBs, he destroys, when he has the ball on his foot he made short passes, and when he has the opportunity he make some good long passes, and he doesn't fuck everything like Mikel did. He is good in that role, but thats it. I think the ideal DM is a vintage Essien, a player that can play multiple roles in the mid, because midfield is a really complex area, a midfielder is not like a CB or a GK, when you are buying a GK, you know he is supposed to play as a GK (nowadays is getting more common to see CB playing in different positions, as full backs or even DM, just look at our team), when you buy a player like Falcao, you know he is supposed to play as a CF, but I rather buy a player like Anelka, who can play as a CF but was also a superb winger.

Thats what I'm talking about. Matic play as a DM, but during a 90minutes match, a players is not stuck in his position. Sometimes you just realize that your winger is spending more time doing what a full back is supposed to do, so if your winger is not that good when he has to mark or to protect the defense, the team will suffer, at some point your DM is the one who has the ball possession and is the one who is supposed to create, but if he is not good enough in that duty he will just make a short pass to another player who is supposed to create, so if at that point of the game the team is only attacking, and the opponent can barely get the ball out of their defensive field, that player will be useless for what the team is looking for at that moment.

Matic is perfect for a game like the one against City, I think he will be huge for the game against Liverpool, but I don't think he is the ideal DM to have in a game where you need to take the initiative and build your own chances against a defensive side, since we bought Matic we became more consistent at the back, way more consistent, you just have to look at our stats, but we are still struggling to create enough chances, and I dare to say we are struggling even more than we used to before he arrived. You might say its not his fault, but he certainly did not improved us in this aspect.

Fair enough, I can see your reasoning but Matic is a DM, and he's a very good one because he does his job very well.

The Essien analogy is quite flawed because Essien wasn't a pure DM, he was a B2B player. Expecting your pure DM to be as effective going forward as someone like Essien who is a completely different type of player (more in the Ramires/Matuidi mold) is nonsensical.

As I said, Matic does his job very well in the way he shields the back four, starts the transition into attack by laying it off to our more creative/advanced players etc. but you can't say he's being overrated because he isn't a B2B midfielder or isn't meant to be a creator... As you and I both know, he does his job very well, and the fact that despite being a pure DM he's still adding assists to his game is something very good - if we can add a proper DLP/creator next to him we'll have one of the most creative pivots out there because creatively, as he's proved so far this season, Matic is not bad at all. In every game you still need a defensively solid midfielder out there, even in games where you are going to have most of the possession, and Matic is ideal because he recycles the ball very well, and can provide great balls from deep as shown this season... He isn't one dimensional. A one dimensional DM would be someone like Mikel. Matic has that switch to his game where he can see a run and just provide a great long ball over the top for an assist... That to me is another dimension to his game rather than just the usual DM stuff.

Barca have Busquets, who isn't even that creative - they still play him in every game though even though he's a pure DM and not that great going forward. You still need that one player to keep things ticking and we have that in Matic.

You're being unfair on him and expecting him to be something he's not. If you rate him as a pure DM he's one of the best out there, there's no denying that.

EDIT:

I've edited the post quite a bit and added new bits.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

Fair enough, I can see your reasoning but Matic is a DM, and he's a very good one because he does his job very well.

The Essien analogy is quite flawed because Essien wasn't a pure DM, he was a B2B player. Expecting your pure DM to be as effective going forward as someone like Essien who is a completely different type of player (more in the Ramires/Matuidi mold) is nonsensical.

As I said, Matic does his job very well in the way he shields the back four, starts the transition into attack by laying it off to our more creative/advanced players etc. but you can't say he's being overrated because he isn't a B2B midfielder or isn't meant to be a creator... As you and I both know, he does his job very well, and the fact that despite being a pure DM he's still adding assists to his game is something very good - if we can add a proper DLP/creator next to him we'll have one of the most creative pivots out there because creatively, as he's proved so far this season, Matic is not bad at all.

You're being unfair on him and expecting him to be something he's not. If you rate him as a pure DM he's one of the best out there, there's no denying that.

And this is why this Henrique guy is totally clueless. You have to actually know something about football before you talk about it and undermine our best players. People take offense to that.

[iseah100 5,612]

I think he started no more than 10 games for us, and I dont watch portuguese league, how can I evaluate him based a couple of games? What do you know about Matic?

I know he was the player of the year in the Portuguese League last year, I know he is excellent on taking players on, has great vision, he can shield the back four, win tackles, intercept passes, launch counter attacks (like last night) and if he was given the green light to go forward I'm confident he could be a regular goal scorer for us. You're doing a great job of diminishing his skill set. As we've seen he is technically gifted and has a great shot.

[Henrique 9,133]

Fair enough, I can see your reasoning but Matic is a DM, and he's a very good one because he does his job very well.

The Essien analogy is quite flawed because Essien wasn't a pure DM, he was a B2B player. Expecting your pure DM to be as effective going forward as someone like Essien who is a completely different type of player (more in the Ramires/Matuidi mold) is nonsensical.

As I said, Matic does his job very well in the way he shields the back four, starts the transition into attack by laying it off to our more creative/advanced players etc. but you can't say he's being overrated because he isn't a B2B midfielder or isn't meant to be a creator... As you and I both know, he does his job very well, and the fact that despite being a pure DM he's still adding assists to his game is something very good - if we can add a proper DLP/creator next to him we'll have one of the most creative pivots out there because creatively, as he's proved so far this season, Matic is not bad at all.

You're being unfair on him and expecting him to be something he's not. If you rate him as a pure DM he's one of the best out there, there's no denying that.

1- Thats my whole point, I just think nowadays "pure DMs" means one dimensional DMs, because basically it means a player who can't play in a position other than DM.

2- I'm not saying he is overrated because he is not something I wanted him to be, I already told things I read in this post in past weeks: "I dont fancy our chances in UCL because Matic can't play", "We would be favorites to win the UCL if Matic could play", "If we win PL it would because of Matic".

Do you think he is that good? Do you think we already rely on him that much after no more than 3 months in the club? You should check other topics where people are saying other players are "shit", "brainless", "idiots", "garbage". These are the ones being unfair, I'm just saying our squad is better than many people believe, we are better than a team that rely on a "pure DM", and I've been in this forum for so long to know in the past people were saying things like:

-Mikel was midfield maestro, who said he was awful were people who "could no understand his position".

-Torres was worth even more than 50m, and who was against him were only trying to get attention.

-Luiz was considered a godlike CB, now he is treated like trash and the worst player to ever play with a Chelsea shirt.

-AVB was considered the perfect man to lead us for many years, and the ones who were asking for his head were idiots, glory hunters and only wanted attention.

-RDM was considered a better manager than Guardiola.

-Mata was considered one of the top 5 players in the world, and months later were discarded as "not good enough" for the same people who were licking his balls months earlier.

-Drogba was considered finished, months later he was voted the greatest Chelsea player of all time after the 2012 UCL heroics.

-Months ago we needed a better player to play alongside Ramires, now Ramires became so poor, brainless, idiot, cunt, and should leave the club as soon as possible.

[Henrique 9,133]

I know he was the player of the year in the Portuguese League last year, I know he is excellent on taking players on, has great vision, he can shield the back four, win tackles, intercept passes, launch counter attacks (like last night) and if he was given the green light to go forward I'm confident he could be a regular goal scorer for us. You're doing a great job of diminishing his skill set. As we've seen he is technically gifted and has a great shot.

You came to that conclusion after watching how many games? It seems you are a Matic specialist. Do you track him since his Benfica days?

[iseah100 5,612]

You came to that conclusion after watching how many games? It seems you are a Matic specialist. Do you track him since his Benfica days?

I've seen him enough before his Chelsea return to know that calling him the "most overrated player ever" is fucking stupid.

[Henrique 9,133]

I've seen him enough before his Chelsea return to know that calling him the "most overrated player ever" is fucking stupid.

I wont discuss with you anymore. I just realized your favorite player Courtois.

[iseah100 5,612]

I wont discuss with you anymore. I just realized your favorite player Courtois.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHA THAT'S FUNNY, CAUSE HE DOESN'T PLAY FOR CHELSEA RIGHT NOW, HUH!? YOU'RE SO FUNNY, MAN! HAS ANYONE EVER TOLD YOU THAT?! OHHH MAN! I CAN'T STOP LAUGHING!

[Henrique 9,133]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHA THAT'S FUNNY, CAUSE HE DOESN'T PLAY FOR CHELSEA RIGHT NOW, HUH!? YOU'RE SO FUNNY, MAN! HAS ANYONE EVER TOLD YOU THAT?! OHHH MAN! I CAN'T STOP LAUGHING!

To make things short: nowadays its getting really easy to become a fan favorite. A player doesn't need to win over the fans anymore, a player doesn't need to show he is committed to the club game after game, a player doesn't need to show what he is really about in the long term, a player doesn't even need to play a single match to become a fan favorite.

Luiz became my favorite player after Drogba left, not because I think he is one the best CB in the world (deep down in my heart I think we are more safe when Cahill or Terry are playing), but because he won me over in that UCL Final, after such a season when he was making a lot of mistakes, he and Cahill were not 100% fit but they played with their hearts, and Luiz was a lion in that match. (I will tell a secret, I think Cahill is an average CB, but he is easily one of my favorites player, because despite his limitations, he still can be a decent CB and be a part of a solid defensive system, the world is not only for the best after all).

You can keep laughing, I just think thats a weird and sad path. Its an open forum, but I think we are losing the spirit of the whole thing.

[iseah100 5,612]

To make things short: nowadays its getting really easy to become a fan favorite. A player doesn't need to win over the fans anymore, a player doesn't need to show he is committed to the club game after game, a player doesn't need to show what he is really about in the long term, a player doesn't even need to play a single match to become a fan favorite.

Luiz became my favorite player after Drogba left, not because I think he is one the best CB in the world (deep down in my heart I think we are more safe when Cahill or Terry are playing), but because he won me over in that UCL Final, after such a season when he was making a lot of mistakes, he and Cahill were not 100% fit but they played with their hearts, and Luiz was a lion in that match. (I will tell a secret, I think Cahill is an average CB, but he is easily one of my favorites player, because despite his limitations, he still can be a decent CB and be a part of a solid defensive system, the world is not only for the best after all).

You can keep laughing, I just think thats a weird and sad path. Its an open forum, but I think we are losing the spirit of the whole thing.

I mean, that's your opinion dude. You're entitled to it, I'm not gonna say it's wrong, I just disagree. Different folks and all, though. Fans have favorites for different reasons; style, nationality, personality, skills, etc. I like Courtois and think he's the best young GK and has helped defeat Barca and Real and he's just awesome. I like Luiz cause he's a happy go lucky guy and is funny. I like Hazard cause he's an amazing player. Cahill is scrappy, Terry and Lamps are legends. Azpi is a workhorse and versatile, Oscar, Matic, Willian, Schurrle etc. I like them mostly, cause they play for my beloved Chelsea. Courtois isn't my favorite, I just out him cause he's one not a lot of people put. We all love these guys for different reasons, they're our 2nd family.

[Henrique 9,133]

Interesting article:

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/dec/18/question-holding-midfielders-changing-role

What I think is nonsensical is the notion that I can't compare Matic to Essien with Essien because one is "pure DM" and the other one is "box-to-box". Essien played lots of game as DM, and even Ballack played some games in that position in 09/10 season. What is a pure DM? Is there a position called pure DM in football? For your argument, I cant compare Luiz playing as a DM to Matic, because the brazilian is actually a Cb, and not a "pure DM".

To be honest what you said doesn't make sense.

[Polo7 3,496]

Just ignore him guys. Can't believe we even have to debate whether Matic is a great player or not.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Can you imagine playing in any other position rather than DM? Can you imagine Matic switching from defensive to offensive position in matches? Can you imagine Matic in the box scoring a goal after an assist from Hazard or William?

He does what a typical DM is supposed to do: he play in front of the CBs, he destroys, when he has the ball on his foot he made short passes, and when he has the opportunity he make some good long passes, and he doesn't fuck everything like Mikel did. He is good in that role, but thats it. I think the ideal DM is a vintage Essien, a player that can play multiple roles in the mid, because midfield is a really complex area, a midfielder is not like a CB or a GK, when you are buying a GK, you know he is supposed to play as a GK (nowadays is getting more common to see CB playing in different positions, as full backs or even DM, just look at our team), when you buy a player like Falcao, you know he is supposed to play as a CF, but I rather buy a player like Anelka, who can play as a CF but was also a superb winger.

Thats what I'm talking about. Matic play as a DM, but during a 90minutes match, a players is not stuck in his position. Sometimes you just realize that your winger is spending more time doing what a full back is supposed to do, so if your winger is not that good when he has to mark or to protect the defense, the team will suffer, at some point your DM is the one who has the ball possession and is the one who is supposed to create, but if he is not good enough in that duty he will just make a short pass to another player who is supposed to create, so if at that point of the game the team is only attacking, and the opponent can barely get the ball out of their defensive field, that player will be useless for what the team is looking for at that moment.

Matic is perfect for a game like the one against City, I think he will be huge for the game against Liverpool, but I don't think he is the ideal DM to have in a game where you need to take the initiative and build your own chances against a defensive side, since we bought Matic we became more consistent at the back, way more consistent, you just have to look at our stats, but we are still struggling to create enough chances, and I dare to say we are struggling even more than we used to before he arrived. You might say its not his fault, but he certainly did not improved us in this aspect.

I think he started no more than 10 games for us, and I dont watch portuguese league, how can I evaluate him based a couple of games?

[Special Juan 27,424]

Nout flash yesterday did his normal job well and stopped them from building momentum.

Such a joy seeing him come back in the side after a CL tie.

[Rekin 835]

I actually find it irrelevant whether Matic is only able to play in one position.
We bought him to play as the slightly more defensive one of the two CM's, his job is to primarily close down danger-areas and shield the back four while distributing the ball to better positioned players. He has done that task very well, and I would personally already be happy if it ended there, which is not the case.
Matic has often ventured forwards and closed down attacks before they begin but also when we are in posession of the ball. Just look at his assist against Stoke, how often do you see our DM's making runs to the end of the pitch and then provide a cutback?
Have anyone forgotten his rocket against City? it was him being open to a play far more forward on the pitch than we would expect. He has several times dribbled past a couple of players and provided a very good pass (he has actually provided many key passes the last few games) and still offered a short option. Also, he has four assists which for a DM with 11 starts is fantastic.

He has basically replaced Ramires, Lampard and Mikel. The only thing he does not really provide that they do is Ramires's offensive bursts and Lampard's frequent shots outside of the box. When it comes to positioning, passing, aerial duels, tackling or interceptions he is superior.

As to him being overrated, I actually think he deserves the praise he receives. CFC-Fans are not the only ones thinking he is great, check The Guardian, Sky, the forums of other teams or WhoScored and you will find that there is basically a consensus that he is an excellent player.

Speaking of WhoScored, they rank him as the fourth best player in PL who has 10 starts or more.