Chelsea Youth

[didierforever 7,349]

  On 20/11/2013 at 12:57, The only place to be said:

I'm not entirely sure how you've arrived at that conclusion.

What a lot of supporters want is for the academy graduates to be given a chance to compliment the first-team squad and maybe challenge for a spot when they've earned that shot.

I know you might think we're still churning out Mark Nicholls and Neil Shipperley but we have one of the finest academies in the world and yet the pathway from youth team to first-team is seemingly non-existent.

Signings absolutely have their place but so do homegrown players - in fact they're a necessity in the modern game.

youngsters who are deemed good enough for the first team will get a chance. how many youngsters can we actually say could have made it here matic, sinclair, stoch (not more than a squad role) and this is since 2004.

we are taking decisions that are best for the team and for the youngsters.

also the problem is not with the youngsters, its with the rotation manager policy that we have going on here. tell me, could RDM have risked playing a match or 2 with the yout, FSW?, AVB?. i dont see any youngsters ,unless he is absolutely exceptional, coming near the first team cos of the manager system we have here.

[didierforever 7,349]

  On 20/11/2013 at 12:53, lionsden said:

No. more like we shouldn't have bought Schurrle, william,Oscar, Van Ginkel, Etoo and possibly Ba as they werent needed at the time and rather use our resources more efficiently and intelligently. therefore, sturridge and Lukaku taking Ba and etoo's spot and KDB, Chalobah instead of Oscar and Van ginkel.

kdb takes oscar's spot? i dont wanna get into another "kdb is the next zidane" argument so i ll leave it here.

so tell me who would take schurrle and willian's role. cos last time i checked we dint have youth players of that standard.

the only point i can actually concede to is chalobah taking mvg's role. except for that everythin is far-fetched. we bought ba cos the sturridge situation was not working. he wanted to leave (or rather play) and we wanted to sell him (or rather stick with torres and start him every game). so ba had to be bought as his replacement. etoo was bought cos jose had seen in training that ba, torres and lukaku were not good enough to win things. hence the etoo buy.

[The only place to be 11,313]

  On 20/11/2013 at 13:55, ChelseasMessiah said:

What, I couldn't be more wrong in saying that Pogba is more talented than Chalobah? Have you seen him play lately?

Did you see them both at youth level? The difference in their careers has been one had a chance taken on him.

  On 20/11/2013 at 13:55, ChelseasMessiah said:

Pogba wasn't rescued, he wanted 50k a week to sign a pro contract with United, they didn't want to give him that kind of dough, so he left and never looked back. Take your blue tinted specs for a second and think objectively.

50k a week? Juve only pay him about £20k don't they? In fact wasn't that the figure reported in the press at the time?

What's your source (he asked knowing he wouldn't get one)?

Pogba wanted football. A lot of United fans wanted him to get games but he didn't, so he left.

  On 20/11/2013 at 13:58, ChelseasMessiah said:

I like Nathan and I think he'll make it here, but not now, he's some 2 or 3 years away from being in the squad. There are 20 PL clubs, at least 15 of them are constantly desperate for a talented player, how come not one of them thought Nathan had the level required to play in the PL this season? That's my point.

How comes Swansea signed Michu? Managers make mistakes and some teams would rather sign Huddlestone and Livermore because they're 'PL Proven'.

I'm not entirely sure what you're basing the 2 or 3 year estimate on but then I'm not entirely sure you've seen him enough to know what deficiencies he has in his game, so I won't push you. I assume you'll use general terms like 'experience' and maybe 'reading of the game'.

I'm of a different opinion.

  On 20/11/2013 at 14:01, didierforever said:

youngsters who are deemed good enough for the first team will get a chance. how many youngsters can we actually say could have made it here matic, sinclair, stoch (not more than a squad role) and this is since 2004.

we are taking decisions that are best for the team and for the youngsters.

also the problem is not with the youngsters, its with the rotation manager policy that we have going on here. tell me, could RDM have risked playing a match or 2 with the yout, FSW?, AVB?. i dont see any youngsters ,unless he is absolutely exceptional, coming near the first team cos of the manager system we have here.

I agree with your last point about the culture of the club and I don't know if that comes from above, or if our fanbase is so fickle that they wouldn't put up with subpar performances from youngsters. I fear it may be a bit of both.

We haven't seen a high enough calibre of youngster come through until the last 18-24 months. I just don't understand what Ake has done to be demoted when he was impressive last season in a position that we desperately need numbers.

Instead we play Michael Essien in league cup games.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

The only way this issue can get better is to keep a coach for more than 3 years. That will bring the needed continuity to the club. Once a new coach comes in, he needs to have instant success to secure his job before thinking of the youth. So the only way the youth will have a chance, is for continuity of one coach. That is the reality

[The only place to be 11,313]

  On 20/11/2013 at 14:07, kellzfresh said:

The only way this issue can get better is to keep a coach for more than 3 years. That will bring the needed continuity to the club. Once a new coach comes in, he needs to have instant success to secure his job before thinking of the youth. So the only way the youth will have a chance, is for continuity of one coach. That is the reality

Yup.

The constant need for success has turned us into a schizophrenic mess of a club with no identity.

But at least we won the CL in 2012.

EDIT - here's my view.

Mourinho had a chance to make changes at the start of the season. He was the most popular a coach has been for a long time here and we were near rock-bottom after the Benitez debacle. He could've used our young players and said he was building a new Chelsea, with a new identity.

Instead he went the other route. Hopefully it works out for the best and we begin to use the academy but it'll be tough for him to find another moment in time when he'll have the freedom to do something radical, like Fergie did in 1995.

[lionsden 4,689]

  On 20/11/2013 at 13:55, ChelseasMessiah said:

What, I couldn't be more wrong in saying that Pogba is more talented than Chalobah? Have you seen him play lately?

Pogba wasn't rescued, he wanted 50k a week to sign a pro contract with United, they didn't want to give him that kind of dough, so he left and never looked back. Take your blue tinted specs for a second and think objectively.

I dfon't even know what you are talking about right now. who cares who's more talented of the two, that's not even the point here. even though it's highly debatable. The point is, Juve provided a platform for him to develop and succeed as a player. the same cannot be said of chalobah and our other talented youngsters

Pogba was playing poorly for the man utd reserves and that was a fact not an opinion. fergie was reluctant to throw him into the deep end which caused him to lose motivation and desire and pogba even said so himself. Juve coming in for him was the change he needed at that time in his career and the trust and faith they showed in him is the reason for his development as a player. that was my argument.

I'm willing to bet that the opinion oh you and others would have been different had Pogba continued to rot in Utd's reserves instead of . . . .

[kellzfresh 7,229]

  On 20/11/2013 at 14:09, The only place to be said:

Yup.

The constant need for success has turned us into a schizophrenic mess of a club with no identity.

But at least we won the CL in 2012.

Thats the price we paid for instant success. As you can see, madrid no longer bring youths through their ranks, instant success and constant changing of managers cause this. Life is a b*tch sometimes

[didierforever 7,349]

  On 20/11/2013 at 14:07, The only place to be said:

I agree with your last point about the culture of the club and I don't know if that comes from above, or if our fanbase is so fickle that they wouldn't put up with subpar performances from youngsters. I fear it may be a bit of both.

We haven't seen a high enough calibre of youngster come through until the last 18-24 months. I just don't understand what Ake has done to be demoted when he was impressive last season in a position that we desperately need numbers.

Instead we play Michael Essien in league cup games.

to be honest cant see any "youth players" getting a chance this season. we have a 25 man strong squad.

players like essien are not going to be getting any chances/matches in PL and he is not even in CL, hence the COC matches. next season would be correct judge of our policies with "youth". mceachran, romeu (though he does not come in that category), pva, kakuta, piazon etc.

[Rmpr 8,977]

  On 20/11/2013 at 11:05, The only place to be said:

People in here are not naive when it comes to youth academies and have reasonable expectations.

Okay.

Enjoy.

Yeah right, everyone of our youngsters are future Ballon D'or winners and we wont have to buy any other players for the next 10 years!

I dont even know why we have Mourinho and Emenalo in charge, you clearly know a lot more than both of them...

[The only place to be 11,313]

  On 20/11/2013 at 14:12, kellzfresh said:

Thats the price we paid for instant success. As you can see, madrid no longer bring youths through their ranks, instant success and constant changing of managers cause this. Life is a b*tch sometimes

So we're Real Madrid now.

That's fucking depressing.

[dave30 728]

  On 09/08/2013 at 22:17, Tomo said:

Im not too bothered about criticism off our own youth system as we haven't produced as many as we should have, what i really hate hearing is other clubs (namely Man.Utd) being used as an example of how it should be done. They way they casted aside Morrison because he had a little of bit of an attitude was borderline criminal.

Slightly more than a little bit of attitude.

[The only place to be 11,313]

  On 20/11/2013 at 14:14, Rmpr said:

Yeah right, everyone of our youngsters are future Ballon D'or winners and we wont have to buy any other players for the next 10 years!

No-one has said that. Why don't you just stick to calling our supporters plastic and enjoy your pint.

[ChelseasMessiah 304]

  On 20/11/2013 at 14:07, The only place to be said:

Did you see them both at youth level? The difference in their careers has been one had a chance taken on him.

50k a week? Juve only pay him about £20k don't they? In fact wasn't that the figure reported in the press at the time?

What's your source (he asked knowing he wouldn't get one)?

Pogba wanted football. A lot of United fans wanted him to get games but he didn't, so he left.

How comes Swansea signed Michu? Managers make mistakes and some teams would rather sign Huddlestone and Livermore because they're 'PL Proven'.

I'm not entirely sure what you're basing the 2 or 3 year estimate on but then I'm not entirely sure you've seen him enough to know what deficiencies he has in his game, so I won't push you. I assume you'll use general terms like 'experience' and maybe 'reading of the game'.

I'm of a different opinion.

I agree with your last point about the culture of the club and I don't know if that comes from above, or if our fanbase is so fickle that they wouldn't put up with subpar performances from youngsters. I fear it may be a bit of both.

We haven't seen a high enough calibre of youngster come through until the last 18-24 months. I just don't understand what Ake has done to be demoted when he was impressive last season in a position that we desperately need numbers.

Instead we play Michael Essien in league cup games.

I won't bother reading the rest of your post, but do you not see the difference between Chalobah and Pogba?

Pogba ended up at Juventus and had many other top clubs after him, Chalobah could only get a loan to another Championship side. Football is a business replete with scouts, believe you me, they know what they're doing.

It's by no means a coincidence Pogba is the superstar he is today.

[The only place to be 11,313]

  On 20/11/2013 at 14:33, ChelseasMessiah said:

I won't bother reading the rest of your post, but do you not see the difference between Chalobah and Pogba?

Pogba is older and has benefitted massively from being entrusted with a spot in a midfield with quality players.

  On 20/11/2013 at 14:33, ChelseasMessiah said:

Pogba ended up at Juventus and had many other top clubs after him, Chalobah could only get a loan to another Championship side. Football is a business replete with scouts, believe you me, they know what they're doing.

It's by no means a coincidence Pogba is the superstar he is today.

I know...I know a few scouts so I don't need you telling me stuff. But you stick to denigrating our players both young and old. I come here to talk to Chelsea supporters, so congrats on being the first person on my ignore list.

Enjoy your pint.

[ChelseasMessiah 304]

  On 20/11/2013 at 14:37, The only place to be said:

Pogba is older and has benefitted massively from being entrusted with a spot in a midfield with quality players.

I know...I know a few scouts so I don't need you telling me stuff. But you stick to denigrating our players both young and old. I come here to talk to Chelsea supporters, so congrats on being the first person on my ignore list.

Enjoy your pint.

He wasn't older when Juve signed him.

[ChelseasMessiah 304]

  On 20/11/2013 at 14:37, The only place to be said:

Pogba is older and has benefitted massively from being entrusted with a spot in a midfield with quality players.

I know...I know a few scouts so I don't need you telling me stuff. But you stick to denigrating our players both young and old. I come here to talk to Chelsea supporters, so congrats on being the first person on my ignore list.

Enjoy your pint.

I'm not denigrating our youth players, I'm only being realistic. That's all. As for the seniors, it's no secret Lampard should have retired by now and Cahill is nowhere near good enough to put on our shirt.

[Stingray 9,441]

  On 20/11/2013 at 14:09, The only place to be said:

The constant need for success has turned us into a schizophrenic mess of a club with no identity.

But at least we won the CL in 2012.

EDIT - here's my view.

Mourinho had a chance to make changes at the start of the season. He was the most popular a coach has been for a long time here and we were near rock-bottom after the Benitez debacle. He could've used our young players and said he was building a new Chelsea, with a new identity.

Instead he went the other route. Hopefully it works out for the best and we begin to use the academy but it'll be tough for him to find another moment in time when he'll have the freedom to do something radical, like Fergie did in 1995.

This exactly!! We took a very different route then thought/expected. The danger lies in NOT getting results now, because then there is zero net profit (not in terms of mobey of course).

This was my initial desillusion a bit with Mou ... I hoped he went for the dynasty on the long term, but he seems to have opted for a hybrid (some already bought youngsters with crazy talent such as Hazard/Oscar, older players such as Eto'o for the succes here and now) to get sort of a long term thing and still get the succes now.

As Myagi from the Karate Kid said: you walk on one side of the road! Safe! You walk on the other side: safe! But if you walk in the middle of the road sooner or later you get squashed like grape.

Hopefully all works out and our hybrid isn't sterile .....

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[ChelseasMessiah 304]

  On 20/11/2013 at 12:53, lionsden said:

No. more like we shouldn't have bought Schurrle, william,Oscar, Van Ginkel, Etoo and possibly Ba as they werent needed at the time and rather use our resources more efficiently and intelligently. therefore, sturridge and Lukaku taking Ba and etoo's spot and KDB, Chalobah instead of Oscar and Van ginkel.

It's a good thing you're not in charge of our club if that's what you believe.