Chelsea Youth

[dave30 728]

Im not too bothered about criticism off our own youth system as we haven't produced as many as we should have, what i really hate hearing is other clubs (namely Man.Utd) being used as an example of how it should be done. They way they casted aside Morrison because he had a little of bit of an attitude was borderline criminal.

Slightly more than a little bit of attitude.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Yeah right, everyone of our youngsters are future Ballon D'or winners and we wont have to buy any other players for the next 10 years!

No-one has said that. Why don't you just stick to calling our supporters plastic and enjoy your pint.

[ChelseasMessiah 304]

Did you see them both at youth level? The difference in their careers has been one had a chance taken on him.

50k a week? Juve only pay him about £20k don't they? In fact wasn't that the figure reported in the press at the time?

What's your source (he asked knowing he wouldn't get one)?

Pogba wanted football. A lot of United fans wanted him to get games but he didn't, so he left.

How comes Swansea signed Michu? Managers make mistakes and some teams would rather sign Huddlestone and Livermore because they're 'PL Proven'.

I'm not entirely sure what you're basing the 2 or 3 year estimate on but then I'm not entirely sure you've seen him enough to know what deficiencies he has in his game, so I won't push you. I assume you'll use general terms like 'experience' and maybe 'reading of the game'.

I'm of a different opinion.

I agree with your last point about the culture of the club and I don't know if that comes from above, or if our fanbase is so fickle that they wouldn't put up with subpar performances from youngsters. I fear it may be a bit of both.

We haven't seen a high enough calibre of youngster come through until the last 18-24 months. I just don't understand what Ake has done to be demoted when he was impressive last season in a position that we desperately need numbers.

Instead we play Michael Essien in league cup games.

I won't bother reading the rest of your post, but do you not see the difference between Chalobah and Pogba?

Pogba ended up at Juventus and had many other top clubs after him, Chalobah could only get a loan to another Championship side. Football is a business replete with scouts, believe you me, they know what they're doing.

It's by no means a coincidence Pogba is the superstar he is today.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I won't bother reading the rest of your post, but do you not see the difference between Chalobah and Pogba?

Pogba is older and has benefitted massively from being entrusted with a spot in a midfield with quality players.

Pogba ended up at Juventus and had many other top clubs after him, Chalobah could only get a loan to another Championship side. Football is a business replete with scouts, believe you me, they know what they're doing.

It's by no means a coincidence Pogba is the superstar he is today.

I know...I know a few scouts so I don't need you telling me stuff. But you stick to denigrating our players both young and old. I come here to talk to Chelsea supporters, so congrats on being the first person on my ignore list.

Enjoy your pint.

[ChelseasMessiah 304]

Pogba is older and has benefitted massively from being entrusted with a spot in a midfield with quality players.

I know...I know a few scouts so I don't need you telling me stuff. But you stick to denigrating our players both young and old. I come here to talk to Chelsea supporters, so congrats on being the first person on my ignore list.

Enjoy your pint.

He wasn't older when Juve signed him.

[ChelseasMessiah 304]

Pogba is older and has benefitted massively from being entrusted with a spot in a midfield with quality players.

I know...I know a few scouts so I don't need you telling me stuff. But you stick to denigrating our players both young and old. I come here to talk to Chelsea supporters, so congrats on being the first person on my ignore list.

Enjoy your pint.

I'm not denigrating our youth players, I'm only being realistic. That's all. As for the seniors, it's no secret Lampard should have retired by now and Cahill is nowhere near good enough to put on our shirt.

[Stingray 9,441]

The constant need for success has turned us into a schizophrenic mess of a club with no identity.

But at least we won the CL in 2012.

EDIT - here's my view.

Mourinho had a chance to make changes at the start of the season. He was the most popular a coach has been for a long time here and we were near rock-bottom after the Benitez debacle. He could've used our young players and said he was building a new Chelsea, with a new identity.

Instead he went the other route. Hopefully it works out for the best and we begin to use the academy but it'll be tough for him to find another moment in time when he'll have the freedom to do something radical, like Fergie did in 1995.

This exactly!! We took a very different route then thought/expected. The danger lies in NOT getting results now, because then there is zero net profit (not in terms of mobey of course).

This was my initial desillusion a bit with Mou ... I hoped he went for the dynasty on the long term, but he seems to have opted for a hybrid (some already bought youngsters with crazy talent such as Hazard/Oscar, older players such as Eto'o for the succes here and now) to get sort of a long term thing and still get the succes now.

As Myagi from the Karate Kid said: you walk on one side of the road! Safe! You walk on the other side: safe! But if you walk in the middle of the road sooner or later you get squashed like grape.

Hopefully all works out and our hybrid isn't sterile .....

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[ChelseasMessiah 304]

No. more like we shouldn't have bought Schurrle, william,Oscar, Van Ginkel, Etoo and possibly Ba as they werent needed at the time and rather use our resources more efficiently and intelligently. therefore, sturridge and Lukaku taking Ba and etoo's spot and KDB, Chalobah instead of Oscar and Van ginkel.

It's a good thing you're not in charge of our club if that's what you believe.

[Rmpr 8,977]

No-one has said that. Why don't you just stick to calling our supporters plastic and enjoy your pint.

You are such a bitter human being...

[lionsden 4,689]

It's a good thing you're not in charge of our club if that's what you believe.

I wouldn't follow or practice the "throw money at the problem" or "throw enough shit on the wall until one sticks" policy that's for sure.And I would try to think outside the box and apply common sense, use club's resources more efficiently and fix the team's major weakness for one instead of spunking millions on players we don't actually NEED.

But what do i know since i'm not a football expert like Stuart pearce and Jamie redknapp.

[Rmpr 8,977]

This was my initial desillusion a bit with Mou ... I hoped he went for the dynasty on the long term, but he seems to have opted for a hybrid (some already bought youngsters with crazy talent such as Hazard/Oscar, older players such as Eto'o for the succes here and now) to get sort of a long term thing and still get the succes now.

What? You hoped Mourinho would have gone for a 'dynasty', what does that fucking means?

Who said that creating a dynasty is playing inexperienced (and even doubtful) teenagers?

We have a lot of promising youngsters, but nothing concrete yet. We have no idea how the finishing products will look like. There is absolutely no reason why Mourinho (or anyone else) should bet their success (be that long term or not) on pure bets!

The development of a player takes time, no one will come out with 18yo and earn a starting place at a club with big aspirations. The risk is too high!

Some Chelsea fans are totally inexperienced with how these stuff works (we are new to it and England isnt known for knowing how to develop a player), so they simply believe (in their narrow minded vision) a player has to be given a chance in the first team if they show potential. Acting as if this was all a mathematics expression based on a linear growth. However, that couldnt be more wrong!

There are many nuances to it, both regarding the actual footballing part of it (skills, attributes, tactical awareness, etc) and the mental part of it (ego, dressing room ethics, etc). (I can elaborate more on that if you want to)

This is the problem I have with the people who think our youth academy is all flowers...

[The only place to be 11,313]

I wouldn't follow or practice the "throw money at the problem" or "throw enough shit on the wall until one sticks" policy that's for sure.And I would try to think outside the box and apply common sense, use club's resources more efficiently and fix the team's major weakness for one instead of spunking millions on players we don't actually NEED.

But what do i know since i'm not a football expert like Stuart pearce and Jamie redknapp.

Exactly. The thing I was hoping FFP would force us to be was a bit more artful with our use of resources. We have a fine academy yet we neglected young players for about 5 years and had an ageing squad. No-one is expecting 11 potential ballon d'or winners to come through but it's the development of the John O'Shea's, Jonny Evans, Darren Fletchers etc. that we should be getting at least.

No-one is saying we shouldn't buy players either. There should be a balance though and Mourinho had the chance to do that. He could've kept Chalobah and Lukaku around and not relied on Eto'o and Essien. In the league cup he could've played a few youngsters rather than a b-team. If he'd had wanted to he could've even replaced Cech with Courtois (although that's a stretch).

What we've seen is none of this. Worse, players who were on the fringes like Ake are nowhere to be seen.

It's a shame because there's something beautiful about seeing young players progress from the youth ranks to a spot in the first team but for some reason there's no will to make that happen.

[lionsden 4,689]

What? You hoped Mourinho would have gone for a 'dynasty', what does that fucking means?

Who said that creating a dynasty is playing unexperienced (and even doubtful) teenagers?

We have a lot of promissing youngsters, but nothing concrete yet. We have no idea how the finishing products will look like. There is absolutely no reason why Mourinho (or anyone else) should bet their success (be that long term or not) on pure bets!

The development of a player takes time, no one will come out with 18yo and earn a starting place at a club with big aspirations. The risk is too high!

Some Chelsea fans are totally unexperienced with how these stuff works (we are new to it and England isnt known for knowing how to develop a player), so they simply believe (in their narrow minded vision) a player has to be given a chance in the first team if they show potential. Acting as if this was all a mathematic expression based on a linear growth.

However, that couldnt be more wrong! There are many nuances to it, both regarding the actual footballing part of it (skills, attributes, tactical awerness, etc) and the mental part of it (ego, dressing room ethics, etc). (I can elaborate more on that if you want to)

This is the problem I have with the people who think our youth academy is all flowers...

Perhaps clubs that have had success in this area should have adopted our strategy of battering their most promising youngsters to submission with heavy loans and wait patiently in the hope that they would be "ready and good enough" when they reach their prime before blooding them into the team, instead. Wenger, Klopp, Guardiola et al missed a trick there. How dare Jupp Heynckes turn Alaba, a teenager who had barely reached puberty and unproven, into a first team regular before reaching his prime. Our policy on youth integration is clearly the best and the blue print for others to follow

[lionsden 4,689]

Exactly. The thing I was hoping FFP would force us to be was a bit more artful with our use of resources. We have a fine academy yet we neglected young players for about 5 years and had an ageing squad. No-one is expecting 11 potential ballon d'or winners to come through but it's the development of the John O'Shea's, Jonny Evans, Darren Fletchers etc. that we should be getting at least.

No-one is saying we shouldn't buy players either. There should be a balance though and Mourinho had the chance to do that. He could've kept Chalobah and Lukaku around and not relied on Eto'o and Essien. In the league cup he could've played a few youngsters rather than a b-team. If he'd had wanted to he could've even replaced Cech with Courtois (although that's a stretch).

What we've seen is none of this. Worse, players who were on the fringes like Ake are nowhere to be seen.

It's a shame because there's something beautiful about seeing young players progress from the youth ranks to a spot in the first team but for some reason there's no will to make that happen.

sadly that attitude of throwing money at the problem and lack of trust and faith in youth is entrenched deeply in the club's culture from top to bottom,from the board to the coaching staff to the fans. Can you imagine the outrage from fans if we announce that we won't be buying any central midfielder and striker in the near future as we are looking to put the faith in Ake, chalobah and Lukaku?.

It would be hilarious to read messages like ffs they aren't good enough and inexperienced, Roman buy Gundogan, Pogba, Cavani . . .buy everyone, anyone ffs anyone.

[Stingray 9,441]

This was my initial desillusion a bit with Mou ... I hoped he went for the dynasty on the long term, but he seems to have opted for a hybrid (some already bought youngsters with crazy talent such as Hazard/Oscar, older players such as Eto'o for the succes here and now) to get sort of a long term thing and still get the succes now.

What? You hoped Mourinho would have gone for a 'dynasty', what does that fucking means?

Who said that creating a dynasty is playing unexperienced (and even doubtful) teenagers?

It fucking means that sometimes it pays off to fucking go for a fucking policy wherein you don't necessarily want to fucking win the league straight away, but try to build something with consideration. All in due time in order to create a dynasty, a team that clicks, has identity and can fucking win the league year after year while it povides us with stability, enough stability to unbloster all those unexperienced and fucking doubtful youngsters you talk about.

At this moment we can't even play KDB Lukaku, ... While having to resort to old timers like Eto'o and buy extra am's to fill it all up. Great vision , also our play sure is sexy as fuck, innit?

Ps: chill on the fuck.

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[Rmpr 8,977]

It fucking means that sometimes it pays off to fucking go for a fucking policy wherein you don't necessarily want to fucking win the league straight away, but try to build something with consideration. All in due time in order to create a dynasty, a team that clicks, has identity and can fucking win the league year after year while it povides us with stability, enough stability to unbloster all those unexperienced and fucking doubtful youngsters you talk about.

At this moment we can't even play KDB Lukaku, ... While having to resort to old timers like Eto'o and buy extra am's to fill it all up. Great vision , also our play sure is sexy as fuck, innit?

Ps: chill on the fuck.

Not in the slightest!

Nobody in here knows the strategy Mourinho is taking, he has been here for only one transfer season. It is absolutely pathetic to say he isnt creating a 'dynasty' because he decided to loan a few promising players (as if a dynasty meant using young players)...

Jose is for the long term and he knows that. If he was worried with the short term results, he would have spent hundreds of millions on a bunch of players and released a whole other bunch. Did he do that? No! All he did was loan some players (he doesnt yet trust to lead our team) and relly on the dudes he was once victorious with (the old guard, so to speak). There is nothing wrong with that, even if it is not working!

A youth player must first spend sometime with the first team, then he goes back to the youth, then he comes back and get some more involvement with the team, then he goes on loan again if necessary and then he starts playing. That is how Barcelona, Ajax and Santos have done throughout all those decades (the three best developers in the world). You dont rush it!

I also want the same things you (and others) do, which is to have a balance between big signings and youth. But, just like the people who run the club, I have a different mentality on how we should approach and ultimately reach that balance.

Going slowly and taking things step by step is the best way to develop a player. You dont throw them into the trenches because the risk is too high...

[Stingray 9,441]

Not in the slightest!

Nobody in here knows the strategy Mourinho is taking, he has been here for only one transfer season. It is absolutely pathetic to say he isnt creating a 'dynasty' because he decided to loan a few promising players (as if a dynasty meant using young players)...

Jose is for the long term and he knows that. If he was worried with the short term results, he would have spent hundreds of millions on a bunch of players and released a whole other bunch. Did he do that? No! All he did was loan some players (he doesnt yet trust to lead our team) and relly on the dudes he was once victorious with (the old guard, so to speak). There is nothing wrong with that, even if it is not working!

A youth player must first spend sometime with the first team, then he goes back to the youth, then he comes back and get some more involvement with the team, then he goes on loan again if necessary and then he starts playing. That is how Barcelona, Ajax and Santos have done throughout all those decades (the three best developers in the world). You dont rush it!

I also want the same things you (and others) do, which is to have a balance between big signings and youth. But, just like the people who run the club, I have a different mentality on how we should approach and ultimately reach that balance.

Going slowly and taking things step by step is the best way to develop a player. You dont throw them into the trenches because the risk is too high...

Rmpr, really just chill, take a deep breath and reread what i said at first:

I hoped he went for the dynasty on the long term, but he seems to have opted for a hybrid (some already bought youngsters with crazy talent such as Hazard/Oscar, older players such as Eto'o for the succes here and now) to get sort of a long term thing and still get the succes now.

Seem to .... as in I get the impression. Also a hybrid as in betting on two horses (some youth and still wanting the succes already this year).

[Rmpr 8,977]

Rmpr, really just chill, take a deep breath and reread what i said at first:

Seem to .... as in I get the impression. Also a hybrid as in betting on two horses (some youth and still wanting the succes already this year).

I am chill, I have reread what you said and I would rewrite everything I said if I have to...

The overall point of my argument is that the club and Jose is doing the right moves, so people should stop criticizing them and acting like our youth players are our saving grace and that if they were here Chelsea would be winning all games by 5-0!

[Stingray 9,441]

acting like our youth players are our saving grace and that if they were here Chelsea would be winning all games by 5-0!

I said almost the exact contrary. Only, I believe we should have refrained from wanting to win it this year because it would pay off in the long run.

[zolayes 14,489]

Pogba is older and has benefitted massively from being entrusted with a spot in a midfield with quality players.

I know...I know a few scouts so I don't need you telling me stuff. But you stick to denigrating our players both young and old. I come here to talk to Chelsea supporters, so congrats on being the first person on my ignore list.

Enjoy your pint.

he was the first on mine as well...only see his stuff when it is quoted ...He NOT th Messiah ...just a very silly (naughty ) boy