Concerning England

[Guest FullEnglishBreakfast]

A lot of my fellow Englishmen (and many others living under a different flag) scream out for English youth to implemented into the squad. I know it looks nice going on to Wikipedia and seeing a whole of red crosses under 'First Team Squad' but is it worth it? Our little country isn't that clever and talented at making clever and talented players. Not to mention the stone cold fact the at the first sight of potential we all get rock hard erections and claim that this sixteen year old is the next great of the game. We all have huge expectations, the nation invented the flipping sport for crying out loud! But then Notts County was the first club and look where they are.

Are our acedmies that good? Are the prospects that good? Is Shaw really the next LB of England or have people been blinded by a white and red flag next to his name? Would Shaw receive the same recogition if his flag had blue as well as red and white?

Maybe buying players is the solution but is it viable and sustainable? It's all nice to have a bloated superstar on 250k p/w scoring 50 goals a season but I don't know, it can feel kind of hollow sometimes. It's rare that players like Drogba and Lamps come along and genuinly are passionate about the club. I'm not saying that youth players will be more passionate but I'm an idealist and I hope they are. Look at Italy, they were the big buyers of the late 90s and early 00s and now they are poor, desperate and stagnating. This could happen to England.

Also, I think that as the National team fails so does the League. The league just isn't the machine it was five years ago. Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard, Owen, Rooney, Ashley Cole, Joe Cole, Ferdinand, Terry just aren't the same players anymore and who is replacing them? I don't see World Class in Cleverly, Welbeck, Wilshere, Rodwell and Jones, if there was World Class talent to be found there it would be on display more often. Sure we have lovely players like Mata, Van Persie, Bale, Vidic, Oscar, Hazard but it would be nice to have them on top of some world class Engslishmen that aren't cunts.

Poor academies, poor footballing culture, poor general culture, shit media, cuntish players, I love this land (on top of every other land in the world) but by God does England make it hard.

PS: I know Swansea and Cardiff play in England but they are an anomaly. Sorry, Wales!

[The only place to be 11,313]

A lot of my fellow Englishmen (and many others living under a different flag) scream out for English youth to implemented into the squad. I know it looks nice going on to Wikipedia and seeing a whole of red crosses under 'First Team Squad' but is it worth it? Our little country isn't that clever and talented at making clever and talented players. Not to mention the stone cold fact the at the first sight of potential we all get rock hard erections and claim that this sixteen year old is the next great of the game. We all have huge expectations, the nation invented the flipping sport for crying out loud! But then Notts County was the first club and look where they are.

Are our acedmies that good? Are the prospects that good? Is Shaw really the next LB of England or have people been blinded by a white and red flag next to his name? Would Shaw receive the same recogition if his flag had blue as well as red and white?

Maybe buying players is the solution but is it viable and sustainable? It's all nice to have a bloated superstar on 250k p/w scoring 50 goals a season but I don't know, it can feel kind of hollow sometimes. It's rare that players like Drogba and Lamps come along and genuinly are passionate about the club. I'm not saying that youth players will be more passionate but I'm an idealist and I hope they are. Look at Italy, they were the big buyers of the late 90s and early 00s and now they are poor, desperate and stagnating. This could happen to England.

Also, I think that as the National team fails so does the League. The league just isn't the machine it was five years ago. Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard, Owen, Rooney, Ashley Cole, Joe Cole, Ferdinand, Terry just aren't the same players anymore and who is replacing them? I don't see World Class in Cleverly, Welbeck, Wilshere, Rodwell and Jones, if there was World Class talent to be found there it would be on display more often. Sure we have lovely players like Mata, Van Persie, Bale, Vidic, Oscar, Hazard but it would be nice to have them on top of some world class Engslishmen that aren't cunts.

Poor academies, poor footballing culture, poor general culture, shit media, cuntish players, I love this land (on top of every other land in the world) but by God does England make it hard.

PS: I know Swansea and Cardiff play in England but they are an anomaly. Sorry, Wales!

I'm genuinely not that bothered about how good England might be, but I think our academy is actually turning into something special. The likes of Chalobah, McEachran and Hunte all have the talent to become very good players but I'm just as interested in the Musondas and Bogas in all honesty.

But if I had to defend the national team, I'd say we're going from one very good but underachieving generation into something new. It's too early to say how good it could be but any success won't come on the backs of the Welbecks, Cleverleys and Rodwells of the world (Phil Jones actually has tremendous potential in my opinion, but he needs to pick a position and stick to it).

So, um yeah. England as a country has a few issues and some of the players reflect that but there's cause for optimism because people (not just footballers, but actual human beings) like Chalobah, Shaw and possibly McEachran actually might have what it takes to bring success at both club and international level.

But personally I'm relieved we can build success on Belgian and Brazilian youth.

[Guest FullEnglishBreakfast]

What bothers me is that all our golden boys end up failing us. Whether it be through personal problems (Gascoigne), failure to play 100% for England (Rooney, Gerrard), injuries (Owen, Wilshere) or poor life decisions and media character assassination (Terry, Cole). I'm afraid we should abandon our expectations of glory and accept we aren't a powerhouse and probably never were.

[dumps 284]

I totally see you where you are coming form but i don't think its THAT bad.

I agree that the league has become money driven, but i think thats because its been a huge buisness for the last decade. BUT its not going to deterate. you mentioned Italy spending big... but this league is hte best in the world, has been for a long time and will continue to be. I had a conversation the other day with a mate who was claiming the english league is going down the pan because of how early the english teams went out the champions league....... awful arguement. I wouldnt worry about the league - it will always be over priced and full of foreign super stars until some wage

I think international football is going to be a problem for a while. I dont understand whats happened (i dont understand how we are so high in the rankings) i think we do have some decent youth coming up and they can be world class players. but we should have more. In recent years i think our youth systems have been heavily invested in by the FA and we should hopefully see the benefits of that in 10 years time.

I think we need to go lower than youth academys within clubs. i worked with some 8 and 9 year olds at a local club for about 8 months last year, and although its supported by the FA i think some guidelines and targets should be handed out by the FA for these kind of clubs. These guys are 8 years old and i personally think the most important at that age is to build interest in the sport. keep hte kids happy, make it enjoyable and increase the chances of them continuing playing football in to their teens. after about 2 months of being there i realised hte guy running it wasnt thinking that way, he was harsh, mean and gave them complicated tactics for games. if they lost they were told off, dropped from the squad and id often see people and hear of kids not enjoying themselves and quitting which is a shame. you can clearly spot a talent at that age, and the kids noramlly dont even realise, so its important to keep them interested to give them the oppurtunity to develop and stay in the sport. On this topic i would advise you all going to jsut helping out at your local young football club. its rewarding and now im reminising about it i think ill start it up again. I tried my best to get the kids to laugh and have fun whenever i had them, and to get thanks from parents is very rewarding.

I think the recent investments in youth will pay off, but i think the plans and investment should go even lower to these local clubs.

On Luke Shaw, from what ive seen its hard to deny his talent. He looked great against liverpool as well. Southampton have always been good at developing young players... All those players you listed like cleverly and wilshere are still young. they will become great players for their nation

[Guest FullEnglishBreakfast]

@dumps, I can see where you are coming from. As a young lad I despised playing for my local clubs. I hated it so much, it wasn't fun and it was far too physical. An 8 year old doesn't need to do constant drills and pushups. I was a skinny lad, thin as a pencil, so they threw me on the wings. I swear they told the defenders to hit me hard because some tackles felt like the belonged in rugby more that football. It was bollocks and I don't regret giving up football in the slightest. Though I still love to play, I'm absolute rubbish.

[dumps 284]

@dumps, I can see where you are coming from. As a young lad I despised playing for my local clubs. I hated it so much, it wasn't fun and it was far too physical. An 8 year old doesn't need to do constant drills and pushups. I was a skinny lad, thin as a pencil, so they threw me on the wings. I swear they told the defenders to hit me hard because some tackles felt like the belonged in rugby more that football. It was bollocks and I don't regret giving up football in the slightest. Though I still love to play, I'm absolute rubbish.

Same story here! Im 22 now and i went through my teens loving football but never really getting to play and im so average! but i love playing.

I used to be a goal keeper, but i stopped growing when i reached 5ft 8... so had to adapt to going outfield when i was around 12 years old. and because i wasnt as good as the other kids i never got the encouragement and i quickly stopped palying for local clubs because i was exlcuded. I think some guidelines and training to get younger kids in to football need to be arranged. itll help increase the odds of us finding good footballers in the future. loads of people who are good at certain sports end up doing other sports due to exclusion and what not.

[Fulham Broadway 16,410]

Makes me fucking livid how Ferguson and other managers can just pull players out of England matches.

There was a time when playing for your country was paramount and it was the ultimate acolade. Now to many its an inconvenience to the moneybags Premership Murdoch Sky Globetrotters League. Cunts

[Jase 43,479]

A non-Chelsea related thread. So, have moved it here.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Makes me fucking livid how Ferguson and other managers can just pull players out of England matches.

There was a time when playing for your country was paramount and it was the ultimate acolade. Now to many its an inconvenience to the moneybags Premership Murdoch Sky Globetrotters League. Cunts

I think it's perfectly fine for them to do that and it's the height of hypocrisy to take everything that the 'moneybags, Murdoch, Sky, grrrrrr....' era has given us (the players we've seen, the places we've been) and then moan about it superseding the national game.

It is an inconvenience - in fact this international break right now is a major fucking inconvenience. We have to play 4 games in a week because we can't play games this week. We're hitting form and now the players have to disband and join up with their national teams.

And I honestly think this trend will continue.

[Fulham Broadway 16,410]

I think it's perfectly fine for them to do that and it's the height of hypocrisy to take everything that the 'moneybags, Murdoch, Sky, grrrrrr....' era has given us (the players we've seen, the places we've been) and then moan about it superseding the national game.

It is an inconvenience - in fact this international break right now is a major fucking inconvenience. We have to play 4 games in a week because we can't play games this week. We're hitting form and now the players have to disband and join up with their national teams.

And I honestly think this trend will continue.

Not an England fan then ?

[Guest FullEnglishBreakfast]

A non-Chelsea related thread. So, have moved it here.

Well...technically it is related to Chelsea, but that's just semantics.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Not an England fan then ?

Not really.

[zolayes 14,489]

our national team has been in a steady decline since about 1946 . The reasons are many but the major problem was caused by our arrogance.

We were so certain we were the best that our game stagnated while other countries developed new methods and systems.

We still believed in a physical game with most teams looking for no more than skilled ball players .

As a country we were late enterring the World cup ... our clubs late in joining European competitions .

We were late in realising the importance of Academies and specia;ised coaching ....

Even now I often question the standard of coaching in our academies ..

Much has been made recently of new coaching ideas for the very young ...ROCKET science ,,,they have finally realised that small number games will

give children more time on the ball ,, so smaller pitches and smaller goals ... I notice however children as youing as 6 or 7 being coached using a ball

far too large for them ,,,in the 30s and 40s they played with a tennis ball and that was something that developed ball skills .

1966 was a one off ,,,we were at home ,,and lucky as well .

English International football depresses and infuriates me ,,the hype ,, the belief we are a world ranking side ,,the FIFA rankings are a bigger joke than Blatter.

I take far more interest in our National teams in other sports than football

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Having good national teams is largely luck-players of top ability coming through at the same time. Had England had a better keeper than a 72 year old Seaman and then a parade of Championship quality keepers, during the "golden generation", they would have had a good chance of winning something. Spain is on top because they have a whole bunch of incredibly talented players who came through at the same time. England are a good squad, but a second tier one. People get their expectations too high and then are too hard on the team when they don't win. In the last 3 World Cups and Euros, they lost in the knockout stages to Germany, Portugal twice, Brazil, and Italy and 3 of those times were on penalties.

I think there are a few things to note as well. Many top teams like Spain, Italy, and Germany have almost all their players regularly playing with each other. The Premier League is more balanced so the national team will draw players from 10 different teams. It makes a massive difference. I think one thing England can do better is to concentrate less on specific positions and more on skill with the younger kids. Forcing kids into playing in systems early, takes away creativity and enforces a certain kind of rigidity.

[The only place to be 11,313]

our national team has been in a steady decline since about 1946 . The reasons are many but the major problem was caused by our arrogance.

We were so certain we were the best that our game stagnated while other countries developed new methods and systems.

We still believed in a physical game with most teams looking for no more than skilled ball players .

As a country we were late enterring the World cup ... our clubs late in joining European competitions .

We were late in realising the importance of Academies and specia;ised coaching ....

Even now I often question the standard of coaching in our academies ..

Much has been made recently of new coaching ideas for the very young ...ROCKET science ,,,they have finally realised that small number games will

give children more time on the ball ,, so smaller pitches and smaller goals ... I notice however children as youing as 6 or 7 being coached using a ball

far too large for them ,,,in the 30s and 40s they played with a tennis ball and that was something that developed ball skills .

1966 was a one off ,,,we were at home ,,and lucky as well .

English International football depresses and infuriates me ,,the hype ,, the belief we are a world ranking side ,,the FIFA rankings are a bigger joke than Blatter.

I take far more interest in our National teams in other sports than football

Same here. I follow the England rugby team closely and despite having season tickets at Quins I still think that the national team is the most important one I follow. With the England football team, my first concern is always are any Chelsea players injured and how did our players do? Maybe it's that football is more 'tribal' or maybe it's just the case that the club game at the top end, i.e. the Champions League, is now the pinnacle of the sport whereas in sports like rugby the club teams are still some way below the national teams.

[Guest FullEnglishBreakfast]

In Brazil a child will not join an academy till they are a teenager. They have years to realise their creativity and passion on the streets playing with friends and family. They grow an emotional attachement to the sport, they play with passion and joy. In England they drill discipline and iron will into players. We instill hard work and bravery into our players, but that's only good for a small number of roles. It's nice to have a Striker that puts 100% into a match, but it isn't when his first touch takes the ball 2 and a half metres away from him. All of our players have had the personality taken away from their game, that's why players like Joe Cole are so rare in England.

[Rmpr 8,977]

In Brazil a child will not join an academy till they are a teenager. They have years to realise their creativity and passion on the streets playing with friends and family. They grow an emotional attachement to the sport, they play with passion and joy. In England they drill discipline and iron will into players. We instill hard work and bravery into our players, but that's only good for a small number of roles. It's nice to have a Striker that puts 100% into a match, but it isn't when his first touch takes the ball 2 and a half metres away from him. All of our players have had the personality taken away from their game, that's why players like Joe Cole are so rare in England.

That is long gone mate, people join academies very young in Brazil!

The difference is that they encourage freedom and creativity while they are young (until 14-15) inside the football clubs themselves. We usually play 7v7 with no specific roles (like they spend the day having fun), only then they start to learn tactitcs and positions.

This is great, but people with 18-19 yo are still learning to defend or whatever. It always has both sides!

[Guest FullEnglishBreakfast]

Now you've twats like Rio that just pull out of playing for England. They don't care anymore, they couldn't give two tosses about the country