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Oscar


themightyblue
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HILARITY!

If Jose thought Oscar was poor he'd sell him. If Jose thought Oscar was poor he wouldn't have sold DeBruyne and Mata...

I don't know... Jose seems to know best.

every manager is biased and capable of making bad judgment calls and jose is no exception. Moreover no one said Oscar is a poor player just that he is too inconsistent and should have to earn his place as a starter just like at every other top club. inconsistent is not the same as poor atleast the last time I checked the definitions in the dictionary.

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The pass completion rate means very little depending on the type of passes made. Oscar has a higher amount of passes in total, but fewer key passes which tells you that he does a greater amount of safe passes than Firmino does.

The whole point of all the individual stats I showed before was to create a profile for the players, not to belittle Oscar or make him appear worthless. Quite the contrary, the stats show a unique player who performs relatively well in his tasks which include defensive responsibilities.

However, the conclusion from the stats were that Firmino actually performs quite a bit better than Oscar on the defensive side. If we bought him, we would not lose that balance that Oscar gives. We would in addition to that also get a player who performs more key passes, and who is one of Europe's best dribblers.

This led me to decide that in my opinion, Firmino is the only reasonable player we can buy that retain the tactics of the 10 role that we have today, while also being an upgrade. Buying someone like Isco would mean we have to change the role completely, and I dont see Mourinho doing that just yet.

The only drawback of RF is his pace, but then again Oscar isnt exactly lightning quick himself. I believe the slight loss in speed would be compensated for in all the other areas where I believe Firmino to be better. He is in my opinion a more direct, alert, creative and technical player than Oscar, and the statistics do support the case, as do his performance in the team.

Also worth adding is that Firmino is the main man in Hoffenheim, he carries primarily offensive responsibilities there, which makes his defensive stats all the more impressive.

Ummm... WHAT??? So you want a guy who attempts difficult passes but rarely connects on them and gives up possession at an alarming rate as our no.10???? hahahaha Dude... We are a possession based team who also play on the counter, what good is a CAM if he tries all these difficult passes and never connects them?

You, Skipper and Lionsden are just exposing yourselves mightily with these poorly constructed arguments. First you guys say you don't want Oscar because he's not good enough and attacks break down when its at his feet, that his decision making is poor. Then to counter that buy selecting a guy who is a poor passer, very slow and an even worse decision maker than Oscar when playing in a league that is way slower??? (BTW that's why DeBruyne is excelling the league fits his pace)

Brother, you do understand that the Premier is played at a break neck speed right? If you actually believe Firmino is a better option in the 10 than Oscar I can't really argue with you but I will say this, 73% pass completion rate is PALTRY and if you think Chelsea are supposed to be a top 5 team in the world having a 10 who can't complete 80% of his passes is hardly even premier league status....

Here are a few names from the premier league who complete 73% of their passes none of them play for top clubs....

Phil Bardsley 73.4

Paul Konchesky 73.3

Danny Ings 73

Joey Barton 73

Leonardo Ulloa 73

Aaron Cresswell 72.9

To name a few... I somehow doubt our board and Jose agree with you on this.

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Regarding Oscar abd Coutinho comparison. there are two things to note.

The season isn't over yet as there's still plenty of games left to be played (14 to be precise) and a lot can happen between now and then to significantly distort the current numbers.

Also Coutinho has proven to be a late bloomer whose best form usually comes in the 2nd half of the season (He's already proving that right just like he did last season) while oscar by contrast is a fast burner.

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Regarding Oscar abd Coutinho comparison. there are two things to note.

The season isn't over yet as there's still plenty of games left to be played (14 to be precise) and a lot can happen between now and then to significantly distort the current numbers.

Also Coutinho has proven to be a late bloomer whose best form usually comes in the 2nd half of the season (He's already proving that right just like he did last season) while oscar by contrast is a fast burner.

Yes anything can happen! Oscar could go on and get better too!

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Did you even read the table at all? How is it even better when Coutinho flawed him overall and in every major index apart from goals scored and pass completion?

Because that was LAST YEAR, THIS YEAR Oscar has clearly improved and is besting him.

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dont think coutinho is any better than oscar. definitely a better dribbler and but along the lines of workrate, defensive contribution, he does not come in the category.

fortunately, we already have 2 players who easily fulfil the required criteria to play the role that oscar does - willian and cesc. one of them should be given a run.

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Ummm... WHAT??? So you want a guy who attempts difficult passes but rarely connects on them and gives up possession at an alarming rate as our no.10???? hahahaha Dude... We are a possession based team who also play on the counter, what good is a CAM if he tries all these difficult passes and never connects them?

You, Skipper and Lionsden are just exposing yourselves mightily with these poorly constructed arguments. First you guys say you don't want Oscar because he's not good enough and attacks break down when its at his feet, that his decision making is poor. Then to counter that buy selecting a guy who is a poor passer, very slow and an even worse decision maker than Oscar when playing in a league that is way slower??? (BTW that's why DeBruyne is excelling the league fits his pace)

Brother, you do understand that the Premier is played at a break neck speed right? If you actually believe Firmino is a better option in the 10 than Oscar I can't really argue with you but I will say this, 73% pass completion rate is PALTRY and if you think Chelsea are supposed to be a top 5 team in the world having a 10 who can't complete 80% of his passes is hardly even premier league status....

Here are a few names from the premier league who complete 73% of their passes none of them play for top clubs....

Phil Bardsley 73.4

Paul Konchesky 73.3

Danny Ings 73

Joey Barton 73

Leonardo Ulloa 73

Aaron Cresswell 72.9

To name a few... I somehow doubt our board and Jose agree with you on this.

Do you feel more sophisticated when using big letters and adding a lot of dots? Do you feel more in charge when picking a few players who fit your argument regardless of the context?

I'm sorry but I have no intention of continuing this debate if you are going to use those mechanics, as this is neither a sandbox nor the british parliament.

Let me make one thing very clear. While it seems that Lionsden and Skipper have similar opinions about Oscar as I do, we all make our arguments separately. I am the one who would like Firmino, I do not think they have even mentioned him by name, so dragging them into my argument and piling us up together is another poor attempt to discredit our opinion.

Now, let us get to some basics straight.

First of all, Hoffenheim is not Chelsea. Second of all, Firmino neither is nor plays the same way as Oscar.

The important thing to gather from this is that you can not take take a simple statistic in isolation and compare them. You say Oscar completes more passes and loses possession less often, but that ignore so many factors.

Is Oscar our main attacking outlet? Does he try to dribble his way through the opposition often? No.

Firmino however fit that description for his team. A player who take on other players and try to lead the attack is always going to get dispossessed more often, and be pressured into a poor pass.

Oscar often pings the ball around, and have genius or hardworking players like Hazard and Willian around him, not to mention that he has two of the hardest working players in the league, Fabregas and Matic, behind him. You do realize I hope that it makes a huge difference?

Oscar got dispossessed a lot more in the world cup with Brazil when he had a different role and different players around him. Are you starting to understand the difference? Do you know what his passing % was there? 78%, in other words marginally better than those players you mentioned earlier as prime examples of being sub-par. Do you want more passing statistics from Oscar being in a different environment (as in the World Cup)? There were 143 players with a higher amount of passes/game. He was number 294 when it comes to pass success. Sure, many players ahead of him played fewer games, but it doesnt change the fact that his passing stats were abysmal when he had a more direct role than the one he has in Chelsea, and lets remember that he played in one of the tournaments best team.

Do you see what different circumstances can do a players statistics?

I could also play your flawed game and use the example of Mikel, who sits on a 90% success rate for his passes. He must be an amazing player then, we should put him as number 10 as he obviously will pick apart every defense with his homing beacons of passes.

Speed? Firmino is slightly slower than Oscar. You are being completely biased by just using the statistics that fit you. I at least had the decency to include those were Oscar was better than Firmino. Are we going to ignore that Firmino has the highest success rate of dribbles of all AMC's while according to you being extremely slow? Are we going to ignore that even though he has much worse players around him he still manages to accomplish more key passes? Are we going to ignore that he manages to complete more tackles and interceptions per game?

Firmino is the risk-taker in Hoffenheim, the one who makes things happen. Oscar is in no way that player in Chelsea. It would be a valid argument to speculate that if they switched positions, they could both do well in either team. That does however ignore that Firmino at the moment completes a combination of the role Oscar has right now, and the traditional role a 10 is expected to have.

Also, are you serious with your first sentence? He does obviously succeed with his difficult passes if he has a good bit higher of them than Oscar. What does it say about a player who has more key passes than Oscar but a lower general success rate? Key Passes does not measure attempted ones, but successful ones.

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Do you feel more sophisticated when using big letters and adding a lot of dots? Do you feel more in charge when picking a few players who fit your argument regardless of the context?

Yes actually I DO.... lol.

Let me make one thing very clear. While it seems that Lionsden and Skipper have similar opinions about Oscar as I do, we all make our arguments separately. I am the one who would like Firmino, I do not think they have even mentioned him by name, so dragging them into my argument and piling us up together is another poor attempt to discredit our opinion.

they agreed with your argument so its fair grounds to lump them in.

The important thing to gather from this is that you can not take take a simple statistic in isolation and compare them. You say Oscar completes more passes and loses possession less often, but that ignore so many factors. Is Oscar our main attacking outlet? Does he try to dribble his way through the opposition often? No.

What is the point? You claim we need a guy who attempts difficult passes regardless of whether or not he is successful at them! That is poor! Look around Europe you will not find ONE decent no.10 whose pass completion percentage is lower than 75% I don't care if that person tries to attempt 80 yd passes, a no.10 for a top club can't have a worse pass completion percentage than Phil Bardsley!

Firmino however fit that description for his team. A player who take on other players and try to lead the attack is always going to get dispossessed more often, and be pressured into a poor pass.

How does this make us a better team???

Oscar often pings the ball around, and have genius or hardworking players like Hazard and Willian around him, not to mention that he has two of the hardest working players in the league, Fabregas and Matic, behind him. You do realize I hope that it makes a huge difference?

Yes we have a hard working team! And Oscar fits that mould, its the squad we've constructed. And this argument that Oscar is only doing well because of the players around him is poor. You can't possibly say that in this squad one player is leaning on another, they all have assignments and Oscar's is intrinsic to how we play. The fact that Firmino unsuccessfully tries difficult passes and dribbles doesn't in no way, shape or form make him a better no.10 for our team. As a matter of fact, with the way Jose likes to play someone like Firmino would be the antithesis. Poor passer, slow, makes terrible decisions. How are we supposed to counter? How are we supposed to break teams down that sit deep with a guy who passes worse than Ramires when under pressure?

Oscar got dispossessed a lot more in the world cup with Brazil when he had a different role and different players around him. Are you starting to understand the difference? Do you know what his passing % was there? 78%, in other words marginally better than those players you mentioned earlier as prime examples of being sub-par. I could also play your flawed game and use the example of Mikel, who sits on a 90% success rate for his passes. He must be an amazing player then, we should put him as number 10 as he obviously will pick apart every defense with his homing beacons of passes.

So now we're gonna compare the stats of Oscar's World Cup which represented him in a completely different role and in 7 games at the end of a long campaign? Man this straw man argument is gonna burn up quickly! Why are you comparing Mikel to Oscar and Firmino? The reason why I put those names in there is because nowhere in the premier league is there a no.10 who passes the ball so poorly, those numbers are reserved to rubbish players. Mikel is a very good passer too! his assignment has his making shorter passes than what is required from a deep lying playmaker.

Speed? Firmino is slightly slower than Oscar.

Are you mad? Firmino is a good two paces slower than Oscar!

Yes Firmino has good technique I've mentioned that but how is that going to make us a better team? We have dribblers all over the pitch. All you are demonstrating here is you don't understand how Oscar is being utilized in the team. He is not our playmaker, that is Hazard and Cesc... For them to be effective we need people to do the dirty work and that is where Oscar comes in. Its about balance and chemistry... We could have 4 of the best dribblers in the world on our team and we would lose if it wasn't also met with ball winning, tackles and tactical awareness. When Cesc goes forward Oscar knows to fall back and cover, when Hazard goes dribbling through the middle of the pitch, Oscar knows where to be to keep shape. Do I wish he was nicer on the ball? hell ya that would be fantastic but for all he does for the team and for what we got him for I'm content.

We have enough risk takers(as a matter of fact our actual no.10 is Hazard when you think about tactical deployment) Oscar provides stability and tactical awareness.

If FIrmino is all you say he is why hasn't he even been capped yet? Why is he at Hoffenheim? Is there no team in Europe that see's how vastly superior he is to Oscar and how much he would make a top 5 team that much better? Are all the scouts directors and managers missing something here? Or is it you who is romanticizing his lovely dribbling and ignoring his poor passing and tactical awareness? Hmmmm....

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