The Illuminati Thread

[Zinedine Iniesco 172]

Illuminati is for the paranoid and uninformed. Just live your lives, because if there is indeed anything behind out there we cant do anything about it.

Just how all this religion stuff put into it is fake, be athiest.

But in the end, do and believe as you please as that is what this world is all about. If the "bad" guys want to do something, then how you gonna stop them?

When taken under logical observation, this illuminati crap all falls, the talk about how to deal with it, how to prove it, waste of time.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

No. Semitic means related to the languages of Arabic, Hebrew, Amharic, or Aramaic. You can't change it's meaning because unlike "gay", "Semitic" is a historical term. The only people who think the two words are the same are the ones who have been constantly brainwashed by western media.

Tell me please, if Zionism had no control over British policies at the start of the 20th century, how did the Israeli occupation of Palestine come to be? You seem to be an intelligent person, please don't tell me you believe that God promised Jews the land and the British were acting upon God's wishes?!

The Racism against Jews in the Arab world is only normal. What do you expect? 64 years ago Jews were brought from all over the world into the Arab world, backed by every strong army in the world, killed thousands of unarmed people, took their homes, and have been killing on a daily basis ever since. No matter how hard the media tries, they can't change those facts. If anything, I say the hatred against Jews is apparently not enough because they are still occupying Palestine and killing civilians every day.

I seriously suggest we leave this "discussion" here because we obviously have very different set of norms and beliefs regarding this matter. I'm afraid no matter what we say I will still be a racist terrorist in your opinion and you a brainwashed puppet in mine.

I'm fine with letting it go, but I am not for a second going to create a false equivalence. This is what drives me so crazy about the internet. I actually know what I am talking about. I understand basic linguistics and semiotics. You clearly have no idea of the function of language. (almost every single world is historical in originality and then changes to mean something else. What a word means is what a word means and can be completely independent of its original meaning) I went to one of the best universities in the world and took history there. I spent a couple of years travelling around the Middle East I have written professionally about Middle Eastern politics. What is your knowledge based on? A web video called "how the Jews control the world?" And the funniest thing about us Westerners being "brainwashed". I grew up and live in the country with the 6th best education system, 10th best press freedom, and the 8th ranked Democracy. Lebanon is 95th in Education, 93rd in press freedom, and 94th in Democracy, but it's not Lebanon who doesn't get it, it's us Westerners. Are our education systems too good? Is press freedom brainwashing us? Conspiracy theories are inevitably more prevalent in closed societies because you don't have access to real information.

The worst part of this is that I spent a year in Israel and the West Bank working with Israeli and Palestinian kids, trying to build bridges for coexistence. It's hard but crucial work if there is to be any future for either peoples, but then some fucker like you comes along with their "Jews don't belong, they deserve to be hated, they control the world", and all that bigotry and you can undo years of hope and progress with your pointless virulent loathing. There are two choices: Either moving on from the past and trying to build a better future or,do what you want and have endless war and misery because you feel there was an injustice done 100 years ago.

[Makaveli 59]

Religion and church are biggest evil in the world, remember that. And if Iluminati is real, then they are in close relationship with religion and shits. But let's call it religion. I just can not understand how everyone is hypnotized with something there's not even ONE evidence in whole history of this world about.

"I think some cool motherfu.ker sat down a long time ago and said: Let's figure out a way to control people. And then they came up with the Bible."

That's it. Just recognize and think.

[Justin_3d 1,140]

Religion and church are biggest evil in the world, remember that. And if Iluminati is real, then they are in close relationship with religion and shits. But let's call it religion. I just can not understand how everyone is hypnotized with something there's not even ONE evidence in whole history of this world about.

"I think some cool motherfu.ker sat down a long time ago and said: Let's figure out a way to control people. And then they came up with the Bible."

That's it. Just recognize and think.

You would not be saying the bible is fake when you have a posses person in front of you shouting all weird stuff in language you never heard of and doing a bunch of super natural stuff!

[Zinedine Iniesco 172]

Lets not jump to conclusions here eh justin? Religion is non existent, its fake, its a fairy tale, there is no higher being, there is no way to prove what i just said wrong either. All humans can have is faith and believe and some are either taught or decide to use that in different ways.

[Kostas 1,468]

...

So you assume bigotry anywhere you feel like? Do point out in any of my 2 posts implied reference to nationality/religion or any other kind of anti-semetic sentiments. Your being presumptuous and frankly offensive will manage not only to lower the level of the discussion (which I see you don't mind) but also to get ignored in whatever genuine on-topic point you are trying to make.

Playing the "anti-semite" card is much more sickening than anything I've read in this thread.

[Justin_3d 1,140]

Lets not jump to conclusions here eh justin? Religion is non existent, its fake, its a fairy tale, there is no higher being, there is no way to prove what i just said wrong either. All humans can have is faith and believe and some are either taught or decide to use that in different ways.

We can't prove it that its real but we can't prove it's fake either.

All I know is that demonology the study of demons exist. The possession of a person by a higher entity is real.

And for some reason those higher entity don't like prayer.....

[Zinedine Iniesco 172]

Whatever floats your boat

[Justin_3d 1,140]

Whatever floats your boat

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

So you assume bigotry anywhere you feel like? Do point out in any of my 2 posts implied reference to nationality/religion or any other kind of anti-semetic sentiments. Your being presumptuous and frankly offensive will manage not only to lower the level of the discussion (which I see you don't mind) but also to get ignored in whatever genuine on-topic point you are trying to make.

Playing the "anti-semite" card is much more sickening than anything I've read in this thread.

You simply do not get it and likely are not interested in ever getting it. Using the Rothschilds as an example, not only an example, your only example of control of the media or governments is inherently anti-Semitic. It is the same thing, literally the exact same thing, that has been used for the last 200 years of anti-Semitism. So what if millions of Jews have been persecuted and murdered based on the idea of Jewish control of governments? So what if what you were saying is the exact same thing Nazis used in propaganda posters and movies to justify genocide? That's not offensive. What's offensive is being called out on it. It's like saying "some people spread diseases, like Africans" and then saying "oh, I didn't say only Africans and you are the one bringing race into it" and you saying I'm a racist is far more offensive. No, it isn't. You said something that was anti-Semitic and you want to get angry at me for calling you out on it. Unfortunately, this type of anti-Semitism always rears its head when there are depressions in the world because countries don't want to accept that they are at fault for their own fiscal mess. It isn't us, it has to be some secret cabal of Jewish bankers. This is conspiracy theories at their core. They choose fantasy over fact, prejudice over truth.

[Kostas 1,468]

Aren't you a treat to have a conversation with? I will not have being called a bigot and anti-Semitic due to a post promoting skepticism. Reported and the first person to join my ignore list since mid2010. Don't give up your "crusade" as the supporters of Illuminati bs have to have someone to maintain their retarded debates.

Your laughable rant on international "rankings" (particularly the Democracy one) and your recession dig at the shithole I live in only serve to underline what a waste of time discussing with you was.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Laughable rankings? You mean the Democracy Index? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index#2011_rankings Yeah, laughable. I mean who's to say that Yemen doesn't have a stronger Democracy than Sweden, right? Press freedom index? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index. That's not important at all! Government controlled media versus free media? What's the difference? These are real numbers taken from legitimate sources not that you care about such things. Your backing of Cholou's anti-Semitic screed is hardly surprising and neither is your mock outrage.

[Kezza 1,965]

Da fuk did I just read??

Almost as fucked up as people saying the earthquake in my city was man made so the country will go into debt and have to sell its state owned enterprises..

I'm loving life, so whoever is 'controlling' it is doing a really good job

[capriccioso 2,545]

Lets not jump to conclusions here eh justin? Religion is non existent, its fake, its a fairy tale, there is no higher being, there is no way to prove what i just said wrong either.

Religion and church are biggest evil in the world, remember that. And if Iluminati is real, then they are in close relationship with religion and shits. But let's call it religion. I just can not understand how everyone is hypnotized with something there's not even ONE evidence in whole history of this world about.

"I think some cool motherfu.ker sat down a long time ago and said: Let's figure out a way to control people. And then they came up with the Bible."

That's it. Just recognize and think.

Oh stop it now

[capriccioso 2,545]

I grew up and live in the country with the 6th best education system, 10th best press freedom, and the 8th ranked Democracy. Lebanon is 95th in Education, 93rd in press freedom, and 94th in Democracy, but it's not Lebanon who doesn't get it, it's us Westerners.

I grew up and live in the 2nd highest developed country in the world. As Australia ranks above Canada I can automatically rubbish your argument. Arabs hate Israelis because they took their land. And no matter what you say back, my argument is better than yours because Australia is number 2, Canada is number 6. Because of the discrepancy in ranking I'm automatically superior to you and nothing you say can be taken as truth if I say something different.

That's basically what you said to Choulo. The HDI quality of a country and it's relative levels of development have nothing to do with the intelligence of the people there. Instead of saying every word that comes out of a Lebanese's mouth is rubbish because Canada is 89 spots ahead of Lebanon, debunk his argument properly.

He is from the Middle East. The Lebanese sided with the Arabs in the conflict. He knows more about it than you do, by default. He is a primary source of information, he doesn't have to look up scholarly articles or seek out information at all, he can gather it by himself. Westerners who don't live in Asia will never understand Asia so its best for all of you to butt out and leave our own business to us.

I am a historian, we study this for a living. A person who has experienced an event, even the most uneducated, illiterate person, his opinion and information on the subject is far, far more valuable than any expert who has not lived through and seen that event first hand. Choluo has a degree from University, he is educated, that, combined with the fact that he has lived through the conflict makes his opinion automatically worth more than yours.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

I grew up and live in the 2nd highest developed country in the world. As Australia ranks above Canada I can automatically rubbish your argument. Arabs hate Israelis because they took their land. And no matter what you say back, my argument is better than yours because Australia is number 2, Canada is number 6. Because of the discrepancy in ranking I'm automatically superior to you and nothing you say can be taken as truth if I say something different.

That's basically what you said to Choulo. The HDI quality of a country and it's relative levels of development have nothing to do with the intelligence of the people there. Instead of saying every word that comes out of a Lebanese's mouth is rubbish because Canada is 89 spots ahead of Lebanon, debunk his argument properly.

He is from the Middle East. The Lebanese sided with the Arabs in the conflict. He knows more about it than you do, by default. He is a primary source of information, he doesn't have to look up scholarly articles or seek out information at all, he can gather it by himself. Westerners who don't live in Asia will never understand Asia so its best for all of you to butt out and leave our own business to us.

I am a historian, we study this for a living. A person who has experienced an event, even the most uneducated, illiterate person, his opinion and information on the subject is far, far more valuable than any expert who has not lived through and seen that event first hand. Choluo has a degree from University, he is educated, that, combined with the fact that he has lived through the conflict makes his opinion automatically worth more than yours.

You are not a historian or you would not say such utter nonsense.Well, not any historian worth a shit anyway. No historian in the world thinks that living in close proximity to the event makes you an expert in it. In fact, it does exactly the opposite as it blinds people from analysing historical events with the proper perspective. At best, you are in first year in Uni and have been introduced to Edward Said and think that Orienatlism is the be all and and all of histories although I doubt you're even at that level. The best historians on subjects rarely even lived in the eras they write about. You think every single Lebanese person knows more about Israel/Palestine than any single westerner Not even that but more than single Israeli? That's just moronic. And even as for living through events, do you really think for a second that Chulou is 100 years old and has seen all aspects of the conflict? And living in Lebanon is removed from the Palestinian//Israeli conflict. I have actually lived in Israel and the West Bank. I have Israeli and Palestinian friends.I guarantee I know more about the conflict both from historical perspective and from personal stories there than either you or him. Why not ask one of the Israelis that post here if they are the lying scum that Chulou says they are or that you say they are but you already believe they are or you wouldn't be backing what Choulu said.The quality of education in a country have a tremendous amount to do with the education and knowledge of a people in a country. Conspiracy theories abound in countries that are closed off from knowledge and are less rampant in countries with free presses. And you know that comparing Canada and AUstrali's education systems to that of Lebanon is ridiculous. People in Lebanon has extremely limited access to real news or real history when it comes to the Middle East.

The fact that you are supporting a man who claims that Jews control the media and politics says enough about where your opinion lies. Your outrage is not directed at the obvious (not even hidden in the least) virulent anti-Semitism but rather some ignorant rant about how living in an area automatically makes you an expert on everything that happens within thousands of miles. Unfortunately, this goes to show how prevalent and accepted anti-Semitism is.

[KonohasOrangeFlash 2,607]

Life is good when you're an Atheist

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

He is from the Middle East. The Lebanese sided with the Arabs in the conflict. He knows more about it than you do, by default. He is a primary source of information, he doesn't have to look up scholarly articles or seek out information at all, he can gather it by himself. Westerners who don't live in Asia will never understand Asia so its best for all of you to butt out and leave our own business to us.

I am a historian, we study this for a living. A person who has experienced an event, even the most uneducated, illiterate person, his opinion and information on the subject is far, far more valuable than any expert who has not lived through and seen that event first hand. Choluo has a degree from University, he is educated, that, combined with the fact that he has lived through the conflict makes his opinion automatically worth more than yours.

In fact, I want to go further on this because this has become about the Palestinian/Israel conflict but that's not what bothered me about the original post. Choulou's original offensive post was about Jewish control over governments, finance, and media. If you believe that only people living in the area under discussion can know about certain topics, what the hell can a Lebanese person know about Jews? There are literally no Jews in Lebanon. There is no Jewish control over anything in Lebanon. By your own logic, Choulo knows nothing about this and has no right to write about it.

Also, about the absurdity of needing to live in a place and time to understand it. The Independent newspaper in England did a feature on their 10 best history books. You know how many were written by people who lived in the period and country of which they were writing? None. Not one. The best book on the American Civil War is generally thought to be "The Battle Cry of Freedom" written over 100 years after the war ended. The most important book of Roman history "The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" was written by Edward Gibbon in the18th century in England. Darwin's Origin of the Species is a scientific history of the world, but since he wasn't alive thousands of years ago in the primordial ooze, his work should be dismissed. Etc...There are history books written by people living through period and some of them amazing (Churchill's Second World War books being prime examples but then again Churchill was privy to rather a great deal of inside information) but history is generally retrospective.

Also, I don't understand how you can go on and on about Jewish/Zionist conspiracies and also support a team owned by a Jewish Zionist.

Life is good when you're an Atheist

I am an atheist. Not sure how anybody could really be anything else but I think it's due to my atheism that bigotry drives me so crazy. Religion causes people to think they are special and different and it's only through understanding that we're all the same that we can overcome such bullshit.