Eden Hazard

[The Skipper 20,593]

2 hours ago, 11Drogba said:

Neymar was phenomenal in 2014/2015, since then until PSG game last Wednesday he hasn't been very impressive imo. He has the ego of a star but he is definitely no alpha, he is actually a bit of a pussy as a man actually. Sometimes he turns into a black hole ending most of Barcelona attacks by always wanting the ball and diving after a little charge. Definitely not Premiere league material.

If Hazard worked with another manager instead of Mourinho for two and a half year, I think he would have been a bigger attacking thread right now. What I find funny is that some people who think Neymar is much better than Hazard have been the most ardent Mourinho supporters.

I definitely wasn't an ardent Mourinho supporter... doesn't suit your narrative unfortunately. 

If Neymar isn't an alpha what's Hazard then?

You're saying Neymar isn't PL material just because the truth hurts. Wow. Almost as bad as those that think Messi can't cut the PL. 

PL isn't superior to La Liga at all. Even German and Italians clubs have been consistently doing better in Europe for years now. 

[communicate 2,703]

1 hour ago, manpe said:

Hazard doesn't suit Real's aura at all imo. The club mostly consists of egomaniacs from top to bottom, he's far too chill and laid-back guy to fit in there. There's also immense pressure playing there, you must always perform, but who knows maybe it would benefit him. I just feel that we are a much better fit to Hazard as a club and a team.

If he does well in the next wc, they will come

[11Drogba 2,000]

41 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

I definitely wasn't an ardent Mourinho supporter...

Joke of the day, thanks. Now that it is possible to ignore also mods, I won't be reading your bs anymore.

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

13 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

I definitely wasn't an ardent Mourinho supporter... doesn't suit your narrative unfortunately. 

If Neymar isn't an alpha what's Hazard then?

You're saying Neymar isn't PL material just because the truth hurts. Wow. Almost as bad as those that think Messi can't cut the PL. 

PL isn't superior to La Liga at all. Even German and Italians clubs have been consistently doing better in Europe for years now. 

I don' think the PL is superior but i do feel it's a more difficult league to play in as a top team/player that plays for a topteam.

Teams in the PL are allowed to be a lot more physical then in la liga. Referees allow more in the PL then they do in la liga. That definitely favors the lesser teams. 

Even the lesser teams in la liga play out from the back and try and play possession football. In the PL there's a lot more teams playing a more direct, rigid, counterattacking football. Which makes la liga much more of an open league then the PL is. 

The difference between the top teams and the lesser teams, both financially and quality wise, is also a lot bigger in la liga then in the PL. 

A lot of that has to do with teams in la liga selling their tv rights individually rather then in the PL where it gets sold collectively and then divided in a more equal fashion. 

Just to illustrate how big of a gap there is between Real/Barca and the rest of la liga. In 2013/2014 Atletico madrid won la liga they made 42 million euros selling their tv rights. Barcelona and Real Madrid each made 140 million euros.

 

About Hazard-Neymar comparison. I understand what you're saying but i feel Neymar has had more opportunities to shine on the big stage and he's also played in more favorable conditions then Hazard has. 

So i just don't think the comparison is a fair one. 

 

[The Skipper 20,593]

56 minutes ago, 11Drogba said:

Joke of the day, thanks. Now that it is possible to ignore also mods, I won't be reading your bs anymore.

Are you having a laugh? Don't confuse me with someone else. Have a look through the Mourinho thread. I have argued with lots of people over Mourinho for a long time. Don't let the truth get in the way though. I know the truth hurts but it is what it is. Literally, quick search brought up this. Been criticising Jose since 2014, boy.

On 5/5/2014 at 5:02 AM, The Skipper said:

Saying anything remotely negative about Mourinho now equals to slating the club to some. Fan-fucking-tastic.

 

On 9/20/2015 at 0:39 AM, The Skipper said:

This is tiresome tbh. You sound more like a Mourinho fan than a Chelsea fan to me tbh. There is no way in hell that Jose didn't justifiably get criticised over the last few weeks. He wasn't the only person that got criticised either, the players got lots of criticism too, so it really wasn't just Jose who got flack for our performances.

 

On 12/14/2015 at 10:14 PM, The Skipper said:

Yeah, I think that's it for me. Finally, fully fledged member of Mourinho out now. You know what, if we were hovering around 10th/9th, I'd still give a vote of confidence but this is unprecedented and very atrocious.

Just not good enough. We have a lot of good players under performing. It points to one man.

[The Skipper 20,593]

10 minutes ago, Belgiannutt said:

I don' think the PL is superior but i do feel it's a more difficult league to play in as a top team/player that plays for a topteam.

Teams in the PL are allowed to be a lot more physical then in la liga. Referees allow more in the PL then they do in la liga. That definitely favors the lesser teams. 

Even the lesser teams in la liga play out from the back and try and play possession football. In the PL there's a lot more teams playing a more direct, rigid, counterattacking football. Which makes la liga much more of an open league then the PL is. 

The difference between the top teams and the lesser teams, both financially and quality wise, is also a lot bigger in la liga then in the PL. 

A lot of that has to do with teams in la liga selling their tv rights individually rather then in the PL where it gets sold collectively and then divided in a more equal fashion. 

Just to illustrate how big of a gap there is between Real/Barca and the rest of la liga. In 2013/2014 Atletico madrid won la liga they made 42 million euros selling their tv rights. Barcelona and Real Madrid each made 140 million euros.

 

About Hazard-Neymar comparison. I understand what you're saying but i feel Neymar has had more opportunities to shine on the big stage and he's also played in more favorable conditions then Hazard has. 

So i just don't think the comparison is a fair one. 

 

I agree with all of this and know that, wasn't disputing otherwise tbh. My main point was more about the quality in the top teams of each division I mentioned. They're ahead of the top teams in the PL. 

Also agree with the fact that Neymar has had better conditions which I did state. It's unfortunate but it's one of the reasons why Hazard is behind. 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

11 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

I agree with all of this and know that, wasn't disputing otherwise tbh. My main point was more about the quality in the top teams of each division I mentioned. They're ahead of the top teams in the PL. 

Also agree with the fact that Neymar has had better conditions which I did state. It's unfortunate but it's one of the reasons why Hazard is behind. 

Indeed. La liga is better in many terms, but when it comes to individuals, its certainly easier to players. First the schedule is not as difficult, then the refs dont allow harsh challanges and finaly the opponents are not as physical. 

During the course of season(s), it gets to the player and usualy it takes few seasons to adapt. 

Clear example should be Suarez who scored 40 goals in laliga, something that would be impossible to do in Prem

Not to mention that there are only barca and real on another level in laliga and Neymar plays for one. On technical side, sure laliga teams are better, but that doesnt mean they are harder to play against. Lot of players will say its more difficult to play stoke than Arsenal because of the opponents physicality. 

Bottom line is the CL where Neymar been far superior to Hazard. But IMO playing in laliga gives you alot better prep to play in CL than PL does. Heck even Ligue 1 is better starting point to play season and have CL matches between. 

PL is very physical and thats why we are winning the league with the likes of Alonso, Kante and Moses. Because they can play stokes week in week out without fatigue and injuries. Then in CL they lack that technical skill neccessary to win it. But we cant play technical players because league demands Moses and alonso type of guys. Modern english teams want to evolve, but nature of league doesnt allow it.  

[The Skipper 20,593]

44 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Indeed. La liga is better in many terms, but when it comes to individuals, its certainly easier to players. First the schedule is not as difficult, then the refs dont allow harsh challanges and finaly the opponents are not as physical. 

During the course of season(s), it gets to the player and usualy it takes few seasons to adapt. 

Clear example should be Suarez who scored 40 goals in laliga, something that would be impossible to do in Prem

Not to mention that there are only barca and real on another level in laliga and Neymar plays for one. On technical side, sure laliga teams are better, but that doesnt mean they are harder to play against. Lot of players will say its more difficult to play stoke than Arsenal because of the opponents physicality. 

Bottom line is the CL where Neymar been far superior to Hazard. But IMO playing in laliga gives you alot better prep to play in CL than PL does. Heck even Ligue 1 is better starting point to play season and have CL matches between. 

PL is very physical and thats why we are winning the league with the likes of Alonso, Kante and Moses. Because they can play stokes week in week out without fatigue and injuries. Then in CL they lack that technical skill neccessary to win it. But we cant play technical players because league demands Moses and alonso type of guys. Modern english teams want to evolve, but nature of league doesnt allow it.  

Guys like Pep, Conte, Klopp, even Pochettino will do their upmost to improve their teams and bring it in line with Europe's elite. They're all too good as managers for the top teams in the league to stay behind Europe's elite for too much longer. United will continue to spend heavily too. Next season we'll see the quality of the PL evolve as it's a big big transfer window for a lot of clubs.

Honestly, if Eden went to a club with top class quality forwards and midfielders and the right manager, he'd probably still have kept up. It's up to us next transfer window to bring in these sort of players.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

4 hours ago, The Skipper said:

Guys like Pep, Conte, Klopp, even Pochettino will do their upmost to improve their teams and bring it in line with Europe's elite. They're all too good as managers for the top teams in the league to stay behind Europe's elite for too much longer. United will continue to spend heavily too. Next season we'll see the quality of the PL evolve as it's a big big transfer window for a lot of clubs.

Honestly, if Eden went to a club with top class quality forwards and midfielders and the right manager, he'd probably still have kept up. It's up to us next transfer window to bring in these sort of players.

We will forever be pragmatic team, as long Conte is here. We could attack alot more like we did earlier in season, but you can see we now have a very safe and strict way of playing to WIN games. For such style there is no point of having several Edens.

Therefore even if Griezmann, Dybala, Verratti etc become available, I doubt we would try to create superstar squad. Improvements yes, but as long it doesnt unbalance team. We saw psg and their attacking stars try to play bunker (for whatever reason) and how they failed. 

IMO like it or not, we wont dominate games for a while. At best we can outpower the opponent and kill them with high efficiency. Conte will not risk defensive stability in order to bring one or two superstars. Thats why I doubt we would replace Matic with Verratti and Pedro with Dybala even if those two could arrive, mostly because they cant defend in same fashion. Same for wingbacks. 

I would say this team under Conte will get maximum of one more star player and even he will need to be quite a worker. Conte will always prefer Vidal type of players to give that stability. 

Not that Im against this. If we get back to efficient killer machine we were in 2005-2010, I dont mind. But those who think we will sign another "Eden" or two in summer and play fancy football next year are IMO wrong. 

[The Skipper 20,593]

7 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

We will forever be pragmatic team, as long Conte is here. We could attack alot more like we did earlier in season, but you can see we now have a very safe and strict way of playing to WIN games. For such style there is no point of having several Edens.

Therefore even if Griezmann, Dybala, Verratti etc become available, I doubt we would try to create superstar squad. Improvements yes, but as long it doesnt unbalance team. We saw psg and their attacking stars try to play bunker (for whatever reason) and how they failed. 

IMO like it or not, we wont dominate games for a while. At best we can outpower the opponent and kill them with high efficiency. Conte will not risk defensive stability in order to bring one or two superstars. Thats why I doubt we would replace Matic with Verratti and Pedro with Dybala even if those two could arrive, mostly because they cant defend in same fashion. Same for wingbacks. 

I would say this team under Conte will get maximum of one more star player and even he will need to be quite a worker. Conte will always prefer Vidal type of players to give that stability. 

Not that Im against this. If we get back to efficient killer machine we were in 2005-2010, I dont mind. But those who think we will sign another "Eden" or two in summer and play fancy football next year are IMO wrong. 

It's not the same pragmatism as Jose's. It's different. I wouldn't necessarily call Conte pragmatic per se. Fancy football isn't just possession football. Conte implements Juego De Posicion very well at CFC, and with more quality players we'll be able to play better football, it's simple. 

You look at Napoli or Dortmund this season for example. Not possession based or fancy sides at all but they have one of the best transition football in Europe. And it's mostly based on Juego de Posicion. Their attacks can be stunning. This is what Conte is trying to implement. You can certainly have superstars that play in this way. 

You're seriously under rating the likes of Verratti and Dybala if you think they can't play well in Conte's system. Also, seriously demeaning Conte's philosophy. That Juve team Conte created was amazing and he wanted to push it even further with more superstars, but couldn't, hence resigned. Even Griezmann. You're totally ignoring that he plays for the most pragmatic top team in Europe. Of course they'd thrive under Conte. 

[Socur Toxanarosa 145]

16 hours ago, 11Drogba said:

Neymar was phenomenal in 2014/2015, since then until PSG game last Wednesday he hasn't been very impressive imo. He has the ego of a star but he is definitely no alpha, he is actually a bit of a pussy as a man actually. Sometimes he turns into a black hole ending most of Barcelona attacks by always wanting the ball and diving after a little charge. Definitely not Premiere league material.

What a load of nonsense.

[Socur Toxanarosa 145]

8 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

We will forever be pragmatic team, as long Conte is here.

Don't think we're pragmatic because of Conte, we are Pragmatic FC and he was chosen because of that and if he was not the chosen one, would be someone of a similar profile. And there's nothing wrong about it, it's the reason of why we don't lose 5-1 to Bayern, instead we beat them with a much inferior team in their backyard, no one wants to face Chelsea even when we're in bad form.

edit: sorry for double post.

[Gilvorak 3,734]

Really can't see him staying beyond this summer especially if we win the double this season. He'll have won everything there is to win in English Football.

 

From Hazard's POV, now's the absolute best time to make the move to Madrid.

[11Drogba 2,000]

On 2/23/2017 at 4:24 AM, Socur Toxanarosa said:

Matic is at least a Top 5 DM.

 

1 hour ago, Socur Toxanarosa said:

What a load of nonsense.

I have to agree.

 

 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

On 12/03/2017 at 0:06 AM, The Skipper said:

It's not the same pragmatism as Jose's. It's different. I wouldn't necessarily call Conte pragmatic per se. Fancy football isn't just possession football. Conte implements Juego De Posicion very well at CFC, and with more quality players we'll be able to play better football, it's simple. 

You look at Napoli or Dortmund this season for example. Not possession based or fancy sides at all but they have one of the best transition football in Europe. And it's mostly based on Juego de Posicion. Their attacks can be stunning. This is what Conte is trying to implement. You can certainly have superstars that play in this way. 

You're seriously under rating the likes of Verratti and Dybala if you think they can't play well in Conte's system. Also, seriously demeaning Conte's philosophy. That Juve team Conte created was amazing and he wanted to push it even further with more superstars, but couldn't, hence resigned. Even Griezmann. You're totally ignoring that he plays for the most pragmatic top team in Europe. Of course they'd thrive under Conte. 

I didnt say Verratti or Dybala wouldnt be good at chelsea per se. But i think for example in current formation, Conte would prefer another worker ala Vidal next to Kante, not Verratti (if we talk about big difficult games). Same for winger. IMO one thing is to have Eden with rather free role, the other is having two. I know Griezmann and Dybala can track back and could be a part of this team, same as Eden. But if you look at Pedro or Willian, those two chase the ball all the way down their flank. Pedro is like a duracell rabbit when it comes to that and helps Moses alot at limiting opponents space. While Dybala and Griezmann arent lazy, they will not go so deep, mainly because they have huge quality and its better for them to wait upfront for counter attack, but by that we essentialy lose a body at pressing. Sure having Dybala would give you entirely new options in attack and could even control the game, I seriously doubt thats in Chelsea dnk. Even if we had five Edens, we would still play pragmatic in key games without any nonsense. 

Conte is different to Mou no doubt, but honestly when we will play Barca, Real, Bayern, you realy believe we will try to control the game or attack more if we had bigger stars? IMO we would score that goal and then defend while try to counter them. And players like Vidal and Pedro are more useful in such tactic than Verratti and Dybala. Juve and Atletico are similar to us in certain aspects, but they like us have that one star with rather free role like us (dybala, Griz and Eden). IMO Eden and Dybala/Griezmann could disturb the balance. Perhaps someone like Sanchez, Lemar would suit us more because of their big workrate.

[The Skipper 20,593]

4 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

I didnt say Verratti or Dybala wouldnt be good at chelsea per se. But i think for example in current formation, Conte would prefer another worker ala Vidal next to Kante, not Verratti (if we talk about big difficult games). Same for winger. IMO one thing is to have Eden with rather free role, the other is having two. I know Griezmann and Dybala can track back and could be a part of this team, same as Eden. But if you look at Pedro or Willian, those two chase the ball all the way down their flank. Pedro is like a duracell rabbit when it comes to that and helps Moses alot at limiting opponents space. While Dybala and Griezmann arent lazy, they will not go so deep, mainly because they have huge quality and its better for them to wait upfront for counter attack, but by that we essentialy lose a body at pressing. Sure having Dybala would give you entirely new options in attack and could even control the game, I seriously doubt thats in Chelsea dnk. Even if we had five Edens, we would still play pragmatic in key games without any nonsense. 

Conte is different to Mou no doubt, but honestly when we will play Barca, Real, Bayern, you realy believe we will try to control the game or attack more if we had bigger stars? IMO we would score that goal and then defend while try to counter them. And players like Vidal and Pedro are more useful in such tactic than Verratti and Dybala. Juve and Atletico are similar to us in certain aspects, but they like us have that one star with rather free role like us (dybala, Griz and Eden). IMO Eden and Dybala/Griezmann could disturb the balance. Perhaps someone like Sanchez, Lemar would suit us more because of their big workrate.

I don't know. I think you're severely underrating Verratti and Griezmann/Dybala's work rate. You have to think about how the dynamic of the team changes with these sort of players in your side. More quality means more control, more time on the ball. Verratti can do Matic's job no? We have Matic for these big difficult games and he does okay, but you honestly don't think someone like Verratti who usually plays well in the very big games can perform his role in Conte's system? Why? You say we need a worker but someone like Verratti has a very high work rate anyway but also adds real quality to the midfield.

We haven't been that defensive in big games this season. Not in every game any way. I think you're over exaggerating how defensive we are or how defensive Conte sets us up and you're over exaggerating how much Conte wants work horses first.

To me it sounds like you think we can't fit in more top players in the side. Just because we sign a top player doesn't necessarily mean they're all getting free roles either. Griezmann doesn't really have a free role at Atletico. He has set instructions and does very well defensively for Atletico, who are more defensive than us, but you still don't think he'd fit into Conte'a system. 

Regardless, these players are quite unattainable anyway. In the Conte thread I came up with some alternatives who might be more satisfying, check it out. 

[Namika 922]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/03/12/eden-hazard-antonio-conte-fantastic-privilege-play/

For now Hazard is only “thinking in the present”. “In 10 years if I don’t win the World Cup or the Euros or the Champions League and I make a great career then, for me, that’s no problem,” he says.

Disappointing. He should have higher standards.

[-Kaplan- 410]

5 hours ago, Namika said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/03/12/eden-hazard-antonio-conte-fantastic-privilege-play/

For now Hazard is only “thinking in the present”. “In 10 years if I don’t win the World Cup or the Euros or the Champions League and I make a great career then, for me, that’s no problem,” he says.

Disappointing. He should have higher standards.

How many WCs, Euros and Champions Leagues does Zlatan have?