Politics & Stuff

[Vesper 30,233]

1 hour ago, robsblubot said:

As it should be. Our allies first… what’s so hard to grasp here?! 

Israel is only out for Israel.

They have spied on, manipulated, blackmailed, extensively used espionage on (at public and industrial/commercial levels), taken hundreds of billions of US dollars in foreign aid and then ignored the US's caveats on it, massively interferred in US elections and legislative actions, and even militarily and/or clandestinely attacked the US (USS Liberty, King David Hotel bombing, the Lavon Affair, etc), etc etc, since its founding in 1948 (and even before that).

They are an 'ally' like a pimp is an ally for a prozzie.

 

 

Edited November 29, 2024 by Vesper

[robsblubot 3,595]

6 hours ago, Vesper said:

Israel is only out for Israel.

They have spied on, manipulated, blackmailed, extensively used espionage on (at public and industrial/commercial levels), taken hundreds of billions of US dollars in foreign aid and then ignored the US's caveats on it, massively interferred in US elections and legislative actions, and even militarily and/or clandestinely attacked the US (USS Liberty, King David Hotel bombing, the Lavon Affair, etc), etc etc, since its founding in 1948 (and even before that).

They are an 'ally' like a pimp is an ally for a prozzie.

 

 

That’s a very trumpian way of looking at allies: how much do they cost?

Perhaps a more plausible explanation for the unwavering support from the USA that has gone on for decades and will likely go on for the foreseeable future is not listed above? 👆

Suspect that in terms of cost/benefit NATO wouldn’t fare too well.

The USA gets a lot from Israel’s presence in the region. Whether you agree with that is a different story.

[Vesper 30,233]

58 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

That’s a very trumpian way of looking at allies: how much do they cost?

It is not at all 'Trumpian'.

It is based on documented malign actions taken against the US by Israel.

Trump doesn't give a rat's red arse about the US or anything else, save for himself.

 

You claim the US gets a lot from Israel's presence in the Levant/Middle East.

What exactly does it get, other than having a regional cat's paw to constantly initiate instability in the region for plunder and profit by the MIC and the bankers?

It is very much a one-way street in favour of Israel.

I posted on this (Israel as a cat's paw) before:

 

The term 'cat's paw' comes from Le Singe et le Chat (The Monkey and the Cat) by Jean de La Fontaine, ca 1679.

http://www.la-fontaine-ch-thierry.net/singchat.htm

Bertrand with Raton, one a Monkey, and the other a Cat,
Commensals (1) of a house, had a common Master.
Of mischievous animals it was a very good dish (2);
They both feared none (3), whoever it might be.
Was anything found spoiled in the house?
No one attacked the people of the neighborhood.
Bertrand stole everything; Raton for his part
Was less attentive to mice than to cheese.
One day by the fireside our two rogue masters
          Watched chestnuts roasting;
Swindling them was a very good deal
Our gallants (4) saw double profit to be made,
Their good first, and then the harm of others.
Bertrand said to Raton: Brother, today 
          you must make a masterstroke.
Pull out these chestnuts; If God had made me born 
          Suitable for pulling chestnuts out of the fire,
          Certainly chestnuts would see fair play.
No sooner said than done: Raton with his paw,
          In a delicate manner,
Moves the ashes a little aside, and withdraws his fingers, 
          Then brings them back several times;
Pulls a chestnut, then two, and then three by swindling. 
          And yet (5) Bertrand crunches them.
A servant comes: farewell my people. Raton
         Was not happy, they say,
Nor (6) are most of these Princes 
          Who, flattered by such a job,
          Go to scald themselves (7) in the Provinces,
          For the profit of some King.

 

 

Sources: It seems difficult to choose between Les jours caniculaires by S. Maioli, translated into French by F. de Rosset in 1609, where the scene is in Rome at the home of Pope Julius II, and J. Régnier Apologi Phaedrii , 1643. In these authors, the monkey uses the strength of the cat's paw to remove the chestnuts from the fire. In La Fontaine, the monkey uses persuasion: the moralist knows well that by appealing to vanity one makes people act as well as by constraint (G. Couton, Garnier classics, fables, p.507). 
The deception is all the more successful since the intervention of the servant (who here plays the role of the ironic Fortune ) prevents the cat from even realizing that he has been duped: the duper and the duped communicate in the same discontent. This piquant undertow of the story is again the invention of La Fontaine ( M. Fumaroli, Fables, La Pochothèque, p. 932)

(1) officers of the king who were fed at court
(2) at the time it was said of 2 or 3 people of the same "genius", who were not worth much: that's a good dish.
(3) in the idea of doing wrong, they feared no one
(4) to be taken in the sense: skillful, adroit, who succeeds well in his affairs
(5) during this time
(6) similarly
(7) reference to Raton who burned his paw

[IMissEden 21]

39 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Trump doesn't give a rat's red arse about the US or anything else, save for himself.

 

A lot of us sincerely hate, the bad people, who have mislead people like yourselves to think such things. You have been absolutely attacked over time with a horrendous amount of false flags. It wears down ability to see things clearly. 

[Vesper 30,233]

12 minutes ago, IMissEden said:

A lot of us sincerely hate, the bad people, who have mislead people like yourselves to think such things. You have been absolutely attacked over time with a horrendous amount of false flags. It wears down ability to see things clearly. 

I have discernment, autonomy, and agency, and use those things in a rational manner.

I think for myself and decide what I will keep and/or support, and what I will discard and/or oppose.

I also strive to post documentation and evidence to back up my positings.

You should do the same and list off the 'horrendous amount of false flags' you claim are wearing down the ability to see thing clearly.

 

[Vesper 30,233]

Western Media Covers Up Israeli Finance Minister Call For Genocide

 

 

[Vesper 30,233]

Israel’s Defenders Are Getting Desperate

 

 

[Vesper 30,233]

The Abundance Agenda: Neoliberalism’s Rebrand

The new centrist push to regain control of the Democratic Party, with corporate money

https://prospect.org/economy/2024-11-26-abundance-agenda-neoliberalisms-rebrand/

The past few years have seen a widespread move away from free-market dogma, as policymakers search for new economic perspectives. The election of Joe Biden in 2020 proved to be a crossroads for economic orthodoxy. For the first time in more than a quarter-century, a Democratic administration did not entrust its economic policy exclusively to adherents of Robert Rubin’s philosophy, for whom the solution to any economic issue was usually “Be less of a Democrat.”

Instead, the Biden-Harris administration trusted progressives as a coalition partner, rather than an electoral faction that had to be dealt with, not worked with. The Biden administration attempted true industrial policy for the first time in over a generation, rekindled enforcement of the Sherman Antitrust Act, and didn’t shy away from stimulating the economy when it was foundering. And while Biden’s term has been a rousing success on most macroeconomic measures—the electoral loss turned in part on global inflation and the rollback of the temporary pandemic safety net—progressives’ increasing power within Democratic politics has caused some moderates to become enraged that they’re now expected to settle for the position of senior partner, and denied near-total control.

Enter the “abundance agenda,” an attempt to generate new messaging for a new political era in which neoliberalism has fallen rapidly out of favor. The term has been floating around for years, but has more recently become a rallying cry for a whole array of deregulatory causes. The abundance agenda has also offered shelter to effective altruists, who have been searching for a flag to rally around that isn’t associated with one of the largest frauds in world history. The Biden administration has started to usher in a post-neoliberalism, with more heterodox ideas competing for acceptance. Abundance is neoliberalism repackaged for a post-neoliberal world.

What exactly abundance adherents believe varies, of course, but there are a number of broad precepts: building more housing, producing more energy, and fostering more technological innovation. None of these are objectionable goals; the differences with progressives arise, largely, in how to get there. Abundance starts from a “growth above all” mindset. The agenda’s advocates hate residential zoning laws—which, contrary to what they frequently imply, is something they have in common with us and most progressives—but also detest the National Environmental Policy Act, support fracking, oppose tenant protections, and are often deferential to the policy preferences of Big Tech.

While there are efforts to create abundance-oriented factions within both parties—in effect recreating the Republican and Democratic establishments that dominated politics throughout the 1990s and 2000s—the near-term focus is the Democratic Party. And, in their move to stake out partisan influence, abundance is explicitly seeking to weaken progressives. With that in mind, it’s worth understanding who exactly makes up the abundance movement.

The coalition includes many prominent centrist organizations, but also corporate interests and conservatives that MAGA pushed out of power within the Republican Party. Many components of this faction have financial ties to crypto, AI, Big Tech, and oil.

In October 2024, a number of organizations held the Abundance 2024 conference. The event was sponsored by Arnold Ventures, Open Philanthropy, Renaissance Philanthropy, and Stand Together.

• While at times heterodox, Arnold Ventures funds a sizable network of neoliberal think tanks, including $3 million to the libertarian Reason Foundation and at least $1 million to the pro–pension privatization Retirement Security Initiative, which has led to founder John Arnold (a former Enron executive) comparing himself to the Kochs. Arnold serves on the board of Meta. The Arnold Foundation has also spent hundreds of millions of dollars pushing for school privatization.

• Open Philanthropy was co-created by Facebook co-founder Dustin Moskovitz. It has close ties to AI firm Anthropic, which was founded by Daniela Amodei, the wife of Open Philanthropy co-founder Holden Karnofsky. Open Philanthropy is also closely associated with effective altruism, donating millions to Sam Bankman-Fried’s favorite philosopher Will MacAskill.

• Renaissance Philanthropy was founded by Tom Kalil with money from former Google CEO Eric Schmidt. It was started with an explicit focus on AI, and Kalil himself is on the board of Sherpa.ai. Schmidt is also on the board of multiple AI companies and has invested in crypto. He believes that, rather than try to mitigate the damage of climate change, policy should double down on AI in the hopes that it will come up with a solution. Renaissance is extremely close with Schmidt Futures, Eric and Wendy Schmidt’s own foundation. Many Renaissance staff come from Schmidt Futures, including Kalil and their Economic Mobility Fund program director, partnerships manager, chief of staff, operations manager, and head of strategy and partnerships.

• Stand Together is one of the primary institutions within the Koch network, and was created by Charles Koch. Like Arnold Ventures, Stand Together funds the Reason Foundation. It funds a wide range of conservative nonprofits, including the anti-LGBTQ Alliance Defending Freedom, which the Southern Poverty Law Center classifies as a hate group. Its current CEO, Brian Hooks, is concurrently the president of the Charles Koch Foundation and previously was the executive director of the libertarian Mercatus Center.

Arnold, Moskovitz, Schmidt, and Koch have other ties to the broader abundance movement. For instance, the Utah-based Abundance Institute, whose chief economist spoke at the Abundance 2024 conference, is closely related to Utah State University’s Center for Growth and Opportunity (almost their whole staff comes from the Center), which was established by a joint donation from the Charles Koch Foundation and the Huntsman Foundation (i.e., the Utah Republican family). It’s also part of the State Policy Network—a network of facially distinct, but actually deeply connected and coordinated, conservative think tanks bankrolled by billionaires like the DeVos family, the Walton Family, and, of course, Charles Koch. (The crown jewel of the SPN, the Texas Public Policy Foundation, was run for 15 years by Brooke Rollins, Donald Trump’s nominee for agriculture secretary.)

There are too many organizations pushing for the abundance agenda to break down comprehensively, but here are several that have connections to corporate interests:

• The Foundation for American Innovation (FAI), which co-hosted Abundance 2024 and is listed as a key institutional partner by the Inclusive Abundance Initiative, was seeded by Charles Koch and is part of the State Policy Network. It has a track record of attacking unions. Politico reported on its work around a Silicon Valley conference as part of a “Venture Capital-Fueled Ideology.”

• Institute for Progress (IFP), which co-hosted Abundance 2024 and is listed as a key institutional partner by the Inclusive Abundance Initiative, has a bevy of corporate ties. In 2022, IFP received $110,000 from FAI and has FAI’s executive director on its board. One of the founding funders of IFP was Emergent Ventures, which is a project of the Koch-backed Mercatus Institute at George Mason University. Emergent itself was launched by a grant from Peter Thiel. (Thiel is a right-wing billionaire with a vast influence network at the intersection of techno-futurism and anti-democratic thought who has called technology an alternative to democratic politics to “unilaterally change the world.” Vice President-elect JD Vance is a known scion of Thiel.)

• Both co-founders of IFP also formerly worked at Mercatus. Another of IFP’s board members is a program associate at Mercatus. Other funders include Open Philanthropy, Stripe’s Patrick Collison, and Schmidt Futures—and used to include Sam Bankman-Fried. IFP is extremely pro-crypto; one of its founders suggested distributing unemployment benefits via crypto wallets, and the other has peddled Bitcoin as a solution to people being underbanked in the developing world.

• Niskanen co-hosted Abundance 2024 and is listed as a key institutional partner by the Inclusive Abundance Initiative. In 2023, Niskanen received money from Google, Stand Together, and Arnold Ventures. Two Niskanen fellows also published the manifesto urging for the creation of an abundance faction within the Democratic Party.

• Chamber of Progress, which self-identified its work as a part of “a growing ‘abundance’ policy movement,” is a trade group started with Google seed money by Google alum Adam Kovacevich. Kovacevich proudly touts his college activism of leading an effort to cross the United Farm Workers picket line. Chamber of Progress’s partners (read: funders) include a16z, Circle, Coinbase, Google, Kraken, Ripple, and Waymo. (Andreessen Horowitz, or a16z, is a venture capital firm heavily invested in AI and crypto. Co-founder Marc Andreessen believes that technology is the solution to every problem. He is also on Meta’s board.)

The abundance agenda is championed by figures like Ezra Klein (who, with Derek Thompson, will be releasing the book Abundance in the spring of 2025) and Matt Yglesias (a Niskanen senior fellow). It’s the “liberalism that builds” that Klein called for in The New York Times to replace what he derided as “everything bagel liberalism.” As the Prospect’s David Dayen noted at the time, though, growth and building require buy-in from key constituencies to amount to a durable movement. And the abundance faction is eager to sacrifice elements of the Democratic coalition. A key part of the Klein-Dayen argument was about not including pro-union conditions in things like semiconductor build-out.

Klein and Thompson’s forthcoming book will argue that “one generation’s solutions have become the next generation’s problems. Rules and regulations designed to solve the environmental problems of the 1970s often prevent urban density and green energy projects that would help solve the environmental problems of the 2020s.” In other words, the abundance faction argues that overregulation is the biggest issue standing in the way of progress.

That’s certainly true in some instances—again, we’re anti–restrictive zoning. But it’s not true across the board. Moreover, it fails to recognize the role of powerful incumbents who seek to limit abundance for their own purposes.

Skipping regulatory approvals is certain to speed up building timelines, but it will do nothing to ensure we aren’t falling for the same trap Klein focuses on: creating the next generation’s problems. Cities can and should be a lot denser, and that can be done without doing away with, for example, the Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA). That’s not to say that abundance advocates would oppose the ADA or fire code, although libertarians have long been troubled by the ADA. But it is to say that there are important trade-offs whenever you look to deregulate. And a big part of why neoliberalism needs to be repackaged is because of how deregulation made people’s lives worse and failed to deliver promised gains from its focus on growth. That’s especially true for people lower on the socioeconomic ladder who cannot literally or figuratively self-insure themselves away from the downsides of deregulation.

We’re living in a time where the bipartisan enactment of agencies like the EPA seems unimaginable. So we should take a careful approach to eliminating regulations, since we might never be able to restore them. Democrats may want to be wary before doing neoliberalism redux, especially if this time it includes crypto and AI.

[Fulham Broadway 17,335]

4 hours ago, Vesper said:

t is based on documented malign actions taken against the US by Israel.

Loads of false flag operations by Israel against the US and UK -USS Liberty, the Lavon Affair, King David Hotel to draw the UK and US into wars. 

Netanyahu speaking to congress saying how''Iraq had weapons of mass destruction''  etc. All BS  

[Vesper 30,233]

19 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Loads of false flag operations by Israel against the US and UK -USS Liberty, the Lavon Affair, King David Hotel to draw the UK and US into wars. 

Netanyahu speaking to congress saying how''Iraq had weapons of mass destruction''  etc. All BS  

[Vesper 30,233]

This is the danger of the confluence of outright lying, gaslighting RW tech bro billionaires and massive audience (but with thoroughly incurious and/or ignorant hosts/shills) podcasts spewing RW bollocks, pure disnfo.
You have Rogan's huge audience being exposed daily/weekly to highly inaccurate slantings and/or (like in this case) outright lies.

 

Joe Rogan Sucks Up Rich Guy’s BS Like It’s Dumb Juice

 

Billionaire Scumbag LIES To Rogan’s Face | The Kyle Kulinski Show

 

 

Edited November 29, 2024 by Vesper

[Fulham Broadway 17,335]

33 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Sorry - would help if I actually read posts 😅

[robsblubot 3,595]

5 hours ago, Vesper said:

It is not at all 'Trumpian'.

It is based on documented malign actions taken against the US by Israel.

Trump doesn't give a rat's red arse about the US or anything else, save for himself.

 

You claim the US gets a lot from Israel's presence in the Levant/Middle East.

What exactly does it get, other than having a regional cat's paw to constantly initiate instability in the region for plunder and profit by the MIC and the bankers?

It is very much a one-way street in favour of Israel.

I posted on this (Israel as a cat's paw) before:

 

The term 'cat's paw' comes from Le Singe et le Chat (The Monkey and the Cat) by Jean de La Fontaine, ca 1679.

http://www.la-fontaine-ch-thierry.net/singchat.htm

Bertrand with Raton, one a Monkey, and the other a Cat,
Commensals (1) of a house, had a common Master.
Of mischievous animals it was a very good dish (2);
They both feared none (3), whoever it might be.
Was anything found spoiled in the house?
No one attacked the people of the neighborhood.
Bertrand stole everything; Raton for his part
Was less attentive to mice than to cheese.
One day by the fireside our two rogue masters
          Watched chestnuts roasting;
Swindling them was a very good deal
Our gallants (4) saw double profit to be made,
Their good first, and then the harm of others.
Bertrand said to Raton: Brother, today 
          you must make a masterstroke.
Pull out these chestnuts; If God had made me born 
          Suitable for pulling chestnuts out of the fire,
          Certainly chestnuts would see fair play.
No sooner said than done: Raton with his paw,
          In a delicate manner,
Moves the ashes a little aside, and withdraws his fingers, 
          Then brings them back several times;
Pulls a chestnut, then two, and then three by swindling. 
          And yet (5) Bertrand crunches them.
A servant comes: farewell my people. Raton
         Was not happy, they say,
Nor (6) are most of these Princes 
          Who, flattered by such a job,
          Go to scald themselves (7) in the Provinces,
          For the profit of some King.

 

 

Sources: It seems difficult to choose between Les jours caniculaires by S. Maioli, translated into French by F. de Rosset in 1609, where the scene is in Rome at the home of Pope Julius II, and J. Régnier Apologi Phaedrii , 1643. In these authors, the monkey uses the strength of the cat's paw to remove the chestnuts from the fire. In La Fontaine, the monkey uses persuasion: the moralist knows well that by appealing to vanity one makes people act as well as by constraint (G. Couton, Garnier classics, fables, p.507). 
The deception is all the more successful since the intervention of the servant (who here plays the role of the ironic Fortune ) prevents the cat from even realizing that he has been duped: the duper and the duped communicate in the same discontent. This piquant undertow of the story is again the invention of La Fontaine ( M. Fumaroli, Fables, La Pochothèque, p. 932)

(1) officers of the king who were fed at court
(2) at the time it was said of 2 or 3 people of the same "genius", who were not worth much: that's a good dish.
(3) in the idea of doing wrong, they feared no one
(4) to be taken in the sense: skillful, adroit, who succeeds well in his affairs
(5) during this time
(6) similarly
(7) reference to Raton who burned his paw

You can do your own research as to what the USA gets back from Israel presence in the region. It’s not my place to convince you of the merits of it.

I also disagree with the “initiate” bit; that’s not historically how it played out. If its mere existence in that region causes that, then perhaps thats also part of it.

[cosmicway 1,333]

14 hours ago, Vesper said:

Oh really?

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/solecism

It is solicism.
If the Anglosaxon litterati made a mistake it's not my fault.
Also you have earned the title of the biggest bedsheeet maker after IKEA.
What is contained in the bedsheets is not writen by you.

Edited November 29, 2024 by cosmicway

[Vesper 30,233]

10 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

You can do your own research as to what the USA gets back from Israel presence in the region. It’s not my place to convince you of the merits of it.

You made the claim...

back it up.

I am not your internet  go-fer.

I can damn well assure you that in terms of net financial aid (military and economic) flows, Israel has taken FAR more from ther US than the US has taken from Israel.

You also have to take into account the internal military expenditure that the US incurs when it has to shift its own troops, ships, planes, subs, supplies, etc when it has to project force to prop up and backstop Israel.

Also, in terms of regular trade, in 2022 the US ran a trade deficit with Israel of over 10 billion USD.

https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/europe-middle-east/middle-eastnorth-africa/israel

 

In debate/discussion it literally is your place to convince other people of the claims or stances you make or take.

[robsblubot 3,595]

Just now, Vesper said:

You made the claim...

back it up.

I am not your internet  go-fer.

I can damn well assure you that in terms of net financial aid (military and economic) flows, Israel has taken FAR more from ther US than the US has taken from Israel.

You also have to take into account the internal military expenditure that the US incurs when it has to shift its own troops, ships, planes, subs, supplies, etc when it has to project force to prop up and backstop Israel.

Also, in terms of regular trade, in 2022 the US ran a trade deficit with Israel of over 10 billion USD.

https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/europe-middle-east/middle-eastnorth-africa/israel

 

In debate/discussion it literally is your place to convince other people of the claims or stances you make or take.

That’s not the way it see it: you made the absurd claim that the USA dumps a lot of money into Israel and gets nothing back.

I merely suggested your cost spreadsheet there wasn’t showing the full picture.

[Vesper 30,233]

3 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

It is solicism.
If the Anglosaxon litterati made a mistake it's not my fault.
Also you have earned the title of the biggest bedsheeet maker after IKEA.
What is contained in the bedsheets is not writen by you.

It is not 'solicism', you are simply making up a falsehood.

You are literally claiming that you are right and all the major English language dictionaries are wrong.

Pure trolling.

[cosmicway 1,333]

7 minutes ago, Vesper said:

It is not 'solicism', you are simply making up a falsehood.

You are literally claiming that you are right and all the major English language dictionaries are wrong.

Pure trolling.

But they are since it is a Grk word.

[Vesper 30,233]

Just now, robsblubot said:

That’s not the way it see it: you made the absurd claim that the USA dumps a lot of money into Israel and gets nothing back.

I merely suggested your cost spreadsheet there wasn’t showing the full picture.

I never said 'gets nothing back'.

I said it is very much a one-way street (meaning to a high degree of one-way traffic, which it is).

I did not say a completely one-way street.

On balance, the US has spent hundreds of billions more on Israel than Israel has spent on the US.

Israel is a taker state, and the US a giver state, on multiple levels and types of quantifiable measurement.

[Vesper 30,233]

4 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

But they are since it is a Grk word.

Anglophones do NOT use the Greek alphabet when writing in English only.

The transliteration (transliterated from the Greek alphabet into the standard English alphabet) of the word into standard English is solecism.

You do not get to claim a faulty spelling of the English form is (in violation of all major English dictionaries' spelling) the correct form just because you are Greek.

Pro-tip:

Transliteration is the process of representing or intending to represent a word, phrase, or text in a different script or writing system.