Politics & Stuff

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,920]

Just now, cosmicway said:

Those were segrgationists who had changed their views.

Not At all. He sponsored a bill with them in 1975 that seeked to prohibit federal bussing.

On that they were in agreement. He is no fan of the liberal.

[robsblubot 3,595]

If being supportive of the existence of Israel, their right to live, is being a "Zionist" then count me in. The time to discuss their right to be there, to exist, is now irrelevant. So, I pretty much disagree with most opinions here around that. I also suspect the US president has little leeway here, regardless of political affiliation.

Regarding the immigration talking point from the GOP, as usual, they are lying via whatever the fuck Fox News is.
Jobs, esp low-paying, are (and have been for a while) being replaced left, right and center by automation, not immigrants. Cashiers here in my state are mostly gone in the big chain stores. Things will only accelerate with AI esp once that reaches drivers (truck drivers as well). I'm actually curious about what politicians will lie about then.

Don't get me wrong, rampant uncontrolled immigration creates a lot of different problems, homelessness being the most obvious one. Homelessness, I feel, is where the democrats are most vulnerable. Their policies do not work at all at the regional level. I've worked in San Francisco for years--not exactly in downtown, but close enough to see quite a bit.

Edited March 6, 2024 by robsblubot

[Vesper 30,088]

U.S. floods arms into Israel despite mounting alarm over war’s conduct

Washington has approved more than 100 separate military sales to Israel since its invasion of Gaza, even as officials complain Israeli leaders have not done enough to protect civilians

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/03/06/us-weapons-israel-gaza/

The United States has quietly approved and delivered more than 100 separate foreign military sales to Israel since the Gaza war began Oct. 7, amounting to thousands of precision-guided munitions, small-diameter bombs, bunker busters, small arms and other lethal aid, U.S. officials told members of Congress in a recent classified briefing.

The triple-digit figure, which has not been previously reported, is the latest indication of Washington’s extensive involvement in the polarizing five-month conflict even as top U.S. officials and lawmakers increasingly express deep reservations about Israel’s military tactics in a campaign that has killed more than 30,000 people, according to Gaza’s health authorities.

Only two approved foreign military sales to Israel have been made public since the start of conflict: $106 million worth of tank ammunition and $147.5 million of components needed to make 155 mm shells. Those sales invited public scrutiny because the Biden administration bypassed Congress to approve the packages by invoking an emergency authority.

But in the case of the 100 other transactions, known in government-speak as Foreign Military Sales or FMS, the weapons transfers were processed without any public debate because each fell under a specific dollar amount that requires the executive branch to individually notify Congress, according to U.S. officials and lawmakers who, like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive military matter.

Taken together, the weapons packages amount to a massive transfer of firepower at a time when senior U.S. officials have complained that Israeli officials have fallen short on their appeals to limit civilian casualties, allow more aid into Gaza and refrain from rhetoric calling for the permanent displacement of Palestinians.

“That’s an extraordinary number of sales over the course of a pretty short amount of time, which really strongly suggests that the Israeli campaign would not be sustainable without this level of U.S. support,” said Jeremy Konyndyk, a former senior Biden administration official and current president of Refugees International.

The Israeli government did not immediately offer comment.

State Department spokesman Matt Miller said the Biden administration has “followed the procedures Congress itself has specified to keep members well-informed and regularly briefs members even when formal notification is not a legal requirement.”

He added that U.S. officials have “engaged Congress” on arms transfers to Israel “more than 200 times” since Hamas launched a cross-border attack into Israel that killed 1,200 people and took more than 240 hostage.

When asked about surge of weapons into Israel, some U.S. lawmakers who sit on committees with oversight of national security said the Biden administration must exercise its leverage over the government of Israel.

“You ask a lot of Americans about arm transfers to Israel right now, and they look at you like you’re crazy, like, ‘why in the world would we be sending more bombs over there?’” Rep. Joaquin Castro (D-Tex.), a member of the House Intelligence and Foreign Affairs committees, said in an interview.

“These people already fled from the north to the south, and now they’re all huddled in a small piece of Gaza, and you’re going to continue to bombard them?” Castro said, referring to Israel’s planned offensive in Rafah, where more than 1 million displaced Palestinians have sought shelter.

U.S. officials have warned the Israeli government against waging an offensive in Rafah without a plan to evacuate civilians. But some Democrats worry that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will disregard Washington’s pleas as he has other U.S. demands to allow more food, water and medicine into the enclosed enclave, and to dial back the intensity of a military campaign that has leveled entire city blocks and destroyed huge numbers of homes across the strip.

Rep. Jason Crow (D-Colo.) said in an interview that the Biden administration should apply “existing standards” stipulating that the United States “shouldn’t transfer arms or equipment to places where it’s reasonably likely that those will be used to inflict civilian casualties, or to harm civilian infrastructure.”

Crow, also a member of the House Intelligence and Foreign Affairs committees, recently petitioned Avril Haines, the director of national intelligence, seeking information on “any restrictions” that the administration had put in place to ensure Israel was not using U.S. intelligence to harm civilians or civilian infrastructure.

“I am concerned that the widespread use of artillery and air power in Gaza — and the resulting level of civilian casualties — is both a strategic and moral error,” wrote Crow, a former Army Ranger who served in Iraq and Afghanistan.

A senior State Department official declined to provide the total number or cost of all U.S. arms transferred to Israel since Oct. 7 but described them as a mix of new sales and “active FMS cases.”

“These are items that are typical for any modern military, including one that is as sophisticated as Israel’s,” said the official.

The dearth of publicly available information about U.S. arms sales to Israel leaves unclear how many of the most recent transfers amount to the routine supply of U.S. security assistance to Israel as opposed to the rapid replenishing of munitions as a result of its bombardment of Gaza.

Israel, like most militaries, does not routinely disclose data about its weapons expenditures, but in the first week of the war, it said it had already dropped 6,000 bombs on Gaza.

The lack of public information about arms deliveries has prompted some arms experts to push for changes. “The arms transfer process lacks transparency by design,” said Josh Paul, a former State Department official who resigned in protest over the Biden administration’s Gaza policy.

The vast number of transfers since Oct. 7, largely financed by the more than $3.3 billion in U.S. taxpayer funds Washington provides to Israel every year, “is something we deserve to know as citizens of a democracy,” he said.

Republicans have largely opposed efforts to rein in U.S. arms provisions to Israel and earlier this year introduced legislation to provide an additional $17.6 billion to Israel on top of the $3.3 billion the U.S. provides annually. The Biden administration also supports additional military aid to Israel, but a package has been held up due to infighting in Congress over border security and aid to Ukraine.

What is clear is Washington’s deep involvement in the conflict, even if it isn’t the entity dropping the munitions or pulling the trigger, said Konyndyk, the former administration official.

“The U.S. cannot maintain that, on the one hand, Israel is a sovereign state that’s making its own decisions and we’re not going to second-guess them, and, on the other hand, transfer this level of armament in such a short time and somehow act as if we are not directly involved,” he said.

Edited March 7, 2024 by Vesper

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,920]

12 hours ago, robsblubot said:

If being supportive of the existence of Israel, their right to live, is being a "Zionist" then count me in. The time to discuss their right to be there, to exist, is now irrelevant. So, I pretty much disagree with most opinions here around that. I also suspect the US president has little leeway here, regardless of political affiliation.

Regarding the immigration talking point from the GOP, as usual, they are lying via whatever the fuck Fox News is.
Jobs, esp low-paying, are (and have been for a while) being replaced left, right and center by automation, not immigrants. Cashiers here in my state are mostly gone in the big chain stores. Things will only accelerate with AI esp once that reaches drivers (truck drivers as well). I'm actually curious about what politicians will lie about then.

Don't get me wrong, rampant uncontrolled immigration creates a lot of different problems, homelessness being the most obvious one. Homelessness, I feel, is where the democrats are most vulnerable. Their policies do not work at all at the regional level. I've worked in San Francisco for years--not exactly in downtown, but close enough to see quite a bit.

I'd imagine you are on the older end too though. The TikTok generation isnt being counted in supporting an apartheid state same way in the 80's it was mostly the younger people who figured it wasnt acceptable in South Africa any longer.

Biden pretty much loses young excitement by being, what even a man in his 30's like me can see, on the wrong side of history. In 2004 we didnt have social media to see war crimes live in action the way we can see civilians being killed today. It changes things.

Agreed on the San Francisco point, although they have tried to adopt some tougher on crime stances recently. That should help a bit.

[Fulham Broadway 17,299]

Israel has 'donated' 4 million and 10 million respectively to Labour and Tory parties. Replicate that to other European countries and all the lobbying and 'Friends of Israel' cross party groups with their all expenses holidays, and you begin to see why the silence over slaughter, children with heads blown off, legs and arms amputated with no anaesthetic or even water, children dying of starvation yesterday.

In the US the lobbying is even more intense and although Jews make up less than 2% of the population they comprise of every senior position in the Biden administration except Secretary of Defense. Blinken, Wendy Sherman, Victoria Nuland, Eric Lander, CIA director, Ron Klain, Avri Haines, Alejandro Mayorkas, Merrick Garland, Janet Yellen. 

US taxpayers whether they like it or not,  have given $270 billion to Israel for weapons

[lucio 5,418]

46 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Israel has 'donated' 4 million and 10 million respectively to Labour and Tory parties. Replicate that to other European countries and all the lobbying and 'Friends of Israel' cross party groups with their all expenses holidays, and you begin to see why the silence over slaughter, children with heads blown off, legs and arms amputated with no anaesthetic or even water, children dying of starvation yesterday.

In the US the lobbying is even more intense and although Jews make up less than 2% of the population they comprise of every senior position in the Biden administration except Secretary of Defense. Blinken, Wendy Sherman, Victoria Nuland, Eric Lander, CIA director, Ron Klain, Avri Haines, Alejandro Mayorkas, Merrick Garland, Janet Yellen. 

US taxpayers whether they like it or not,  have given $270 billion to Israel for weapons

You can’t point out facts , that’s anti Semitic 

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,920]

47 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Israel has 'donated' 4 million and 10 million respectively to Labour and Tory parties. Replicate that to other European countries and all the lobbying and 'Friends of Israel' cross party groups with their all expenses holidays, and you begin to see why the silence over slaughter, children with heads blown off, legs and arms amputated with no anaesthetic or even water, children dying of starvation yesterday.

In the US the lobbying is even more intense and although Jews make up less than 2% of the population they comprise of every senior position in the Biden administration except Secretary of Defense. Blinken, Wendy Sherman, Victoria Nuland, Eric Lander, CIA director, Ron Klain, Avri Haines, Alejandro Mayorkas, Merrick Garland, Janet Yellen. 

US taxpayers whether they like it or not,  have given $270 billion to Israel for weapons

I have no doubt that all the Jewish people in his administration are competent and have earned their roles. They usually have to be to get in those roles in America, but we also dont need to be funding another countries genocide.

 

[robsblubot 3,595]

8 hours ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

I'd imagine you are on the older end too though. The TikTok generation isnt being counted in supporting an apartheid state same way in the 80's it was mostly the younger people who figured it wasnt acceptable in South Africa any longer.

Biden pretty much loses young excitement by being, what even a man in his 30's like me can see, on the wrong side of history. In 2004 we didnt have social media to see war crimes live in action the way we can see civilians being killed today. It changes things.

Agreed on the San Francisco point, although they have tried to adopt some tougher on crime stances recently. That should help a bit.

Not only older, but actually have been to Israel for work a couple of times. I've experienced how people leave, what their fears are. I also consider history: like the number of times they've been attacked since the state has been established. I admit bias, but not complete ignorance.
I think it's pretty obvious that without support Israel would cease to exist. If that's the solution you agree with, I think it's the time to agree to disagree and move on.

7 hours ago, lucio said:

You can’t point out facts , that’s anti Semitic 

This thread is very one-sided. "facts" show up for one side only, and then when, and if debunked, this thread goes quiet. There is plenty of blame to go around esp when you actually consider Israel is hardly the only oppressor in the region.
BTW, being an atheist (was at 15yo) makes any religious reasoning from either side moot in my view, which makes the whole conflict really stupid to my eyes.

This is what's missing IMO:
“there is no contradiction between staunchly opposing the Israeli subjugation and occupation of Palestinians and unequivocally condemning brutal acts of violence against innocent civilians. In fact, every consistent leftist must hold both positions simultaneously.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/24/yuval-noah-harari-backs-critique-of-leftist-indifference-to-hamas-atrocities 

Edited March 7, 2024 by robsblubot

[KEVINAA 129]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/07/sweden-joins-nato-after-ratification-hungary-drops-opposition

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/07/sweden-formally-joins-nato-military-alliance-ending-decades-of-neutrality.html

These are articles posted in the last 60 minutes. I haven't read them. Just looked for the last 1 hour articles.

@Vesper they have publicly announced now your country Sweden has joined NATO

 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2024 by KEVINAA

[YorkshireBlue 3,264]

On 05/03/2024 at 19:16, cosmicway said:

Immigration ...
Again.
What is an immigrant ?
An immigrant is a person with two arms, two legs, two heads.
An immigrant can be a nuclear scientist (Oppenheimer) or someone who sells sunglasses and lighters in the high street.
He is just a person.
But if you were an immigrant what would annoy you most ?

a) the extreme racists, fascists and apartheidists
b) the so called "defense" on your behalf by the reds, felllowtravelers, glass breaking anarchist groups.

For me it's the (b).
In the long game It's what makes you an endangered species and not the nutcase rightwinger.

Simple question, would you let an unvetted male migrant into your house with your wife and kids so they had some where to stay? I have no problem with immigration, aslong as your legal and we know who you are and what you can offer, easy to let people in, but where do you put them once they are here.

[cosmicway 1,333]

7 minutes ago, YorkshireBlue said:

Simple question, would you let an unvetted male migrant into your house with your wife and kids so they had some where to stay? I have no problem with immigration, aslong as your legal and we know who you are and what you can offer, easy to let people in, but where do you put them once they are here.

You are making dramatics out of it influenced by William Rees-Mogg stuff you read - or Mussolini-Hirohito, I don't know.
Anyway put your shoes in the other man's feet, that's what I 'm doing.

Edited March 7, 2024 by cosmicway

[lucio 5,418]

54 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

You are making dramatics out of it influenced by William Rees-Mogg stuff you read - or Mussolini-Hirohito, I don't know.
Anyway put your shoes in the other man's feet, that's what I 'm doing.

They are supposed to be running a country not a charity. Exposing women and children to random 3rd world men is unacceptable. There have already been countless deaths because of this , western people are not collateral damage. 

[cosmicway 1,333]

1 minute ago, lucio said:

They are supposed to be running a country not a charity. Exposing women and children to random 3rd world men is unacceptable. There have already been countless deaths because of this , western people are not collateral damage. 

He also supports Hamas in Israel. Mighty strange.
But let's play this game the other way.
Suppose I am a giant economist and I have been invited by none other than Rishi Sunak, to fix brexit.
This he fancies and he says it's ok.
Evidently I won't be associating with the mill and throng but suppose something happens. A Breivik type individual spots me in the street and shoots me dead, just because my accent is not to his liking.
So he does n't think of the other people, only garbles Daily Mail stuff.

[lucio 5,418]

8 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

He also supports Hamas in Israel. Mighty strange.
But let's play this game the other way.
Suppose I am a giant economist and I have been invited by none other than Rishi Sunak, to fix brexit.
This he fancies and he says it's ok.
Evidently I won't be associating with the mill and throng but suppose something happens. A Breivik type individual spots me in the street and shoots me dead, just because my accent is not to his liking.
So he does n't think of the other people, only garbles Daily Mail stuff.

Who supports Hamas ? I’m not following 

[cosmicway 1,333]

2 minutes ago, lucio said:

 I’m not following 

Καλά, στρίβειν διά του αρραβώνος.