Politics & Stuff

[Vesper 30,090]

16 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

there is no such thing as evil.

Whichever definition of evil one may have, it would've been entirely differently decades and centuries ago - by the same religion too!

Don't even have to go that far back in history: burning "witches" at the stake took place pretty recently in our history.

good read "Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind" by Yuval Noah Harari (and it's free too as you can download the PDF from edu sites).

not even back that far

google burning witches in today's Africa

disturbing as FUCK

and all done in baby jeebus' name

it is barbarous shit

and do not let the western fundie Christians trick you when they say 'oh that is just confused people' or whatever dross they use to muddy the waters

the end result of the western, so-called advanced fundie Christians' desires is the SAME thing, just probably not burning alive, but hanging 'em high or some more 'civilised' means of killing us off (us being anyone who strays afoul of their insane and arbitrary rules) 

they love saying

the wages of sin is death (and THEY determine what is 'sin')

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Romans 6:23 

 

lol at a 'loving god'

believe in me OR DIE and suffer FOREVER

it is fucking murderous lunacy

[Vesper 30,090]

1 hour ago, kolovrat said:

We don't know if we have a free choice.  There is no experiment to prove it.

I guarantee one way to ensure we do NOT have free choice

allow the religious fundies (of any and all stripes, but especially the 3 Abrahamic religions) to get the whip hand over our societies and governments

[Vesper 30,090]

[Fernando 6,585]

44 minutes ago, Vesper said:

 

you are delusional m8

literally

you are talking about fairy tales (battles with Satan, lolol, what the fuckery!)

and not only think they are real

but that you and your ilk can make their so-called rules (coming from your delusional beliefs) manifest and put into motion processes that end up with my death (literally, as religious fanaticism unchecked ALWAYS ends up at extreme outcomes)

what's next, a re-birth of the flat-earth concept?

how about modern modern medicine? god's love not good enough to heal?

this is all rat-in-a-tin-shithouse level madness

 

pro tip

the Dark Ages are not coming back unless your side wins

and there are more of us (who will violently, if need be, resist theocracy) in the Western world than there are of you

you want theocracy, go somewhere else and stop trying to shove your god delusions down our throats and up and about our privy parts

and by somewhere else, by which I mean get the fuck out of our western, democratic, pluralistic, tolerant nations, as you clearly have ill-intent for the populations who dwell here

seriously, GTFO

if you do not want to leave, then by all means continue on in private with your faith, BUT leave it fucking PRIVATE, it has no place in the public political sphere when it endeavours to force others to submit to your arbitrary and anti-humanist ways, we are past that point here and t is not coming back, bar a cataclysmic collapse of most all of society as it is presently ordered

 

religious-based hate and power dominance has no place in the modern world

 

 

Well I will pray for you. 

And no I don't believe in killing people or forcing you to change. It should never be about that because then it wouldn't be love, but a violation. 

Take care and have a good day. 

[kolovrat 20]

2 hours ago, Atomiswave said:

Of course you have a choice. You can choose to be good or bad, choose this and that.

In order to prove you have a choice you need to have a point in the future that has a concrete outcome, and then change it with your free choice.

Since you don't know the future, you cannot change it.

[Vesper 30,090]

31 minutes ago, Fernando said:

And no I don't believe in killing people or forcing you to change.

you may not, but the power seekers in your religion do

and you are a forced-birther

so not entirely without some very problematic stances

what kicked thsi all off (I think was with you, maybe not) long ago

was that you (or someone) said you supported the monster Trump for one reason

abortion

it is crazy to wish death (of democracy, of the rule of law, of truth itself, and literally of people, as evidenced by his death cult handling of COVID-19 and other things) upon the most powerful nation on the planet (and perhaps the world if he allowed WWIII to start) all over one issue, and an issue that is FAR from cut and dried as a basic question

stand back and look at the raw HATE that comes from the MAGAt end of things, the utter shitbaggery of it all

Biden is a neoliberal hack, he is about as 'socialist' as Nick 'on my knees for Cameron' Clegg

ZERO American elected (at federal level) Democrats are socialists, that is insane RW gaslighting, even the furthest left of them would be mildly centre left in any EU nation

actual European socialist and communist parties would laugh in your face if you called the US Democratic Party socialist

Trump is far more of a socialist

oligarchic socialism

most losses at the top of the power pyramid all socialised, but most all profits at the top kept private

 

 

Trump supporter complains shutdown is 'not hurting the people he needs to be hurting'

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/424263-trump-supporter-complains-shutdown-is-not-hurting-the-people-he

A prison employee in Florida who voted for President Trump argued that Trump is to blame for the current government shutdown. 

“I voted for him, and he’s the one who’s doing this,” Crystal Minton told The New York Times in an article published Monday. “I thought he was going to do good things. He’s not hurting the people he needs to be hurting.”

[kolovrat 20]

1 hour ago, Vesper said:

I guarantee one way to ensure we do NOT have free choice

allow the religious fundies (of any and all stripes, but especially the 3 Abrahamic religions) to get the whip hand over our societies and governments

How do you guarantee this?

[Vesper 30,090]

3 minutes ago, kolovrat said:

How do you guarantee this?

lol

look at their agendas, what they want to do, what they say they will do, and the laws they pass

also look at their past actions,, back when they were in charge

and also, look at the nations where they ARE in charge now

but you knew that

[kolovrat 20]

3 minutes ago, Vesper said:

lol

look at their agendas, what they want to do, what they say they will do, and the laws they pass

also look at their past actions,, back when they were in charge

and also, look at the nations where they ARE in charge now

but you knew that

This isn't an answer to my question.  Determination Vs. Fee Will (Choice) isn't a subject of political realm.

[Vesper 30,090]

Just now, kolovrat said:

This isn't an answer to my question.  Determination Vs. Fee Will (Choice) isn't a subject of political realm.

I was ONLY speaking about freedom of choice in terms of what RWers would try and take away

you now, a sarcastic joke, smdh

I was not getting into a complex philosophical argument about free will versus determinism 

and I am going to pass on that one tonight

maybe tomorrow or some other day

 

[kolovrat 20]

2 hours ago, Fernando said:

What is the opposite of free choice? Is it pre determined? 

Now let me ask you, are you free to answer that question? Are you making a truth claim? 

Yes, there are two options:

1. Is our life on rails, and everything is predetermined

2. free choice. 

I don't know if I am free or not to answer this question.  How would I know?  May be I was forced?

Truth claim about what?

[Fernando 6,585]

14 minutes ago, kolovrat said:

Yes, there are two options:

1. Is our life on rails, and everything is predetermined

2. free choice. 

I don't know if I am free or not to answer this question.  How would I know?  May be I was forced?

Truth claim about what?

Truth claim = your rising above the bondage of total subjectivity. 

If your totally determined, your pre wire to think the way you do. So you can't make a truth statement. 

The moment you make a truth claim your violating determinism. 

 

[kolovrat 20]

1 minute ago, Fernando said:

Truth claim = your rising above the bondage of total subjectivity. 

If your total determined, your pre wire to think the way you do. So you can't make a truth statement. 

The moment you make a truth claim your violating determinism. 

 

Sorry, but I am not sure what all this means.

Also, how can you make a 'truth claim' about the future?  You can only guess.

[robsblubot 3,595]

19 minutes ago, kolovrat said:

Yes, there are two options:

1. Is our life on rails, and everything is predetermined

2. free choice. 

I don't know if I am free or not to answer this question.  How would I know?  May be I was forced?

Truth claim about what?

Simplest explanation wins? The chaotic universe we observe? Why wouldn't the sample principles apply to the animals on earth, some of which just happen to have big brains instead of claws?

I think that the "life on rails" argument is the one that needs hard proof, being farther from the simplest explanation.

[Fernando 6,585]

7 minutes ago, kolovrat said:

Sorry, but I am not sure what all this means.

Also, how can you make a 'truth claim' about the future?  You can only guess.

You can ask a question about free will freely in the first place. 

If free will did not exist then your question has no essential meaning because it's just pre determined biological processes causing sound to come out of your vocal cords.