Politics & Stuff

[Fulham Broadway 16,853]

Just now, cosmicway said:

British press is the tori-est anywhere - with exceptions no doubt.
Everyone knows that.
What do you want now ?

Waiting for evidence of your 'Moggy owned' media. But you dont have any.

[Vesper 28,825]

9 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

Those who look like they have abstained are not Never Trumpers.
A Naver Trumper is a former rep voter who does n't like Trump.
The dems if embraced the never Trumpers it did n't work.

What are you talking about?

Let me clearly state what I have said.

1. Of course I know what a Never Trumper is (a Republican who refuses to support Trump.)

2. Many of the most prominent Never Trumpers are RW neocon warmongers. (like the Cheneys).

3. By so openly and deeply embracing them, campaigning with them, the Harris/Walz campaign alienated parts of the Democratic Party's voter base.

Edited November 11 by Vesper

[cosmicway 1,323]

10 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Enlighten us, oh wise one

I 'm not a wise one but genocide is to eliminate a nation, or attempt to eliminate a nation.
Known genocides are the Armenian genocide and the holocaust.
Other types of events such as My Lai are not genocides, they are called "massacres".
Gaza is not. It is parallel victims and Hamash is responsible for that when they did not declare the city undefended.

The anti-israeli Hamash propaganda is amoeba caliber.
The old propaganda from radio Moscow, radio Bucharest, radio Tirana, lord Haw Haw we used to hear sometimes was far more intellectual and convincing.

Edited November 11 by cosmicway

[cosmicway 1,323]

1 minute ago, Vesper said:

3. By so openly and deeply embracing them, campaigning with them, the Harris/Walz campaign alienated parts of the Democratic Party's voter base.

What I said was the whatever embrace did n't work.
Also that it is possible Palestine was a reason to abstain, depending on how many are the anti-Israelis. This I don't know for America.

[Fulham Broadway 16,853]

4 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

I 'm not a wise one but genocide is to eliminate a nation, or attempt to eliminate a nation.
Known genocides are the Armenian genocide and the holocaust.
Other types of events such as My Lai are not genocides, they are called "massacres".
Gaza is not. It is parallel victims and Hamash is responsible for that when they did not declare the city undefended.

The anti-israeli Hamash propaganda is amoeba caliber.
The old propaganda from radio Moscow, radio Bucharest, radio Tirana we used to hear sometimes was far more intellectual and convincing.

🙃 More made up rubbish. Well done

[cosmicway 1,323]

15 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

🙃 More made up rubbish. Well done

When did you start beating your wife kind of response.
 

[Fulham Broadway 16,853]

7 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

When did you start beating your wife kind of response.
 

Your typeface has gone back to normal size -eyesight OK now ?

[Fulham Broadway 16,853]

Gaza Genocide

Gaza genocide - Wikipedia

Gaza: Possible atrocity crimes unfold, new UN report warns | UN News

[cosmicway 1,323]

7 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Your typeface has gone back to normal size -eyesight OK now ?

They fixed my catarracts but gave me a little presbyopia !
The normal size you should fix to 20, not me.
Why is 16 normal ???

[Vesper 28,825]

Trump Wins Big, Germany’s Coalition Falls—A New Global Order?

As Trump reclaims the White House, Germany’s coalition collapses. Explore how these seismic events signal a shift in global power.

https://www.socialeurope.eu/trump-wins-big-germanys-coalition-falls-a-new-global-order

 

Donald Trump wins a landslide victory. On the same day, Berlin’s coalition government collapses. Both events are more connected than they seem: they echo a shift in the global order.

It is no coincidence that the German government coalition fell apart over disagreements regarding the debt brake—at its core, the conflict centres around how an ailing German economy can regain its vitality in a shifting geoeconomic environment. The proposed solutions could hardly be more different: former Finance Minister Christian Lindner advocates for neoliberal staples such as tax relief, deregulation, and fiscal discipline, while Chancellor Scholz pursues what economist Tom Krebs of Mannheim University terms “economic realism”—the acknowledgement that market-driven solutions may no longer work in a world disrupted by geo-economic competition.

Following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, Europe and Russia have economically decoupled. While a complete decoupling of Western economies from China remains impossible due to extensive interdependence, the Biden administration has turned to export controls, investment restrictions, and a subsidy-driven industrial policy. Even in the homeland of neoliberalism, the security state has reclaimed political primacy over the market. Meanwhile, China’s state-directed capitalism surges to the technological frontier through heavily subsidised industrial policies. The resulting overcapacities, which China exports at dumping prices, threaten industries worldwide.

This intensified geopolitical competition pressures allies and partners to make investment decisions through a geopolitical lens. Companies face a choice between rival IT infrastructures, markets, and currency systems. Diversification, especially in high-tech sectors, is accelerating, potentially leading to competing economic blocs. The era of peak globalisation is behind us.

Together, these trends are reshaping the global economy. The paradigm is shifting from efficiency to resilience. Market interests no longer take precedence; national security considerations are back in charge. The state, once sidelined, is reclaiming control. The neoliberal model is officially dead.

In this environment, Donald Trump assumes the US Presidency once more. As during his first term, he will engage in fierce economic competition—not only with China but also with perceived “free riders” like Germany or Japan. The “Inflation Reduction Act,” a subsidy programme for US industries, offered American allies a preview of what’s to come. The export-heavy German economic model is facing the headwinds of protectionism and the geopolitically motivated reconfiguration of investments and supply chains. Segments of German industry, already struggling, will have to fight for survival against their strategically backed competitors from China and the United States.

From a security perspective, “America First” means Trump is likely to withdraw the US from costly “forever wars”, using agreements such as the 2019 deal with the Taliban or shifting the costs onto allies. For Europe, this implies bearing the primary burden of supporting Ukraine, ensuring the continent’s security, and stabilising its neighbourhood on its own.

Europe, particularly Germany, must rebuild its conventional deterrence capabilities and significantly boost defence spending—potentially beyond NATO’s 2 per cent of GDP target. Simultaneously, revitalising Germany’s industrial base will require substantial investments in infrastructure (mobility, digitalisation, education), energy supply, and climate protection. Over the next few years, the necessary investments and expenses could amount to 4 per cent of GDP annually. This cannot be achieved within the constraints of the debt brake foolishly enshrined in the constitution—it will have to be lifted. We are now witnessing politicians tying themselves in knots to justify this betrayal of their once dearly held beliefs.

The debate over the debt brake already signals upcoming distribution battles: who will bear the costs? Should it be the bottom third of social transfer recipients, which would spell the end of the welfare state as we know it? The middle third of white-collar workers through higher taxes? That would contradict the current social contract. Or the top third of capital owners through wealth and inheritance taxes? This would mark the end of neoliberalism in Germany. These pivotal decisions will upend the German party system, rendering it unrecognisable within a few years—much like in other European countries.

The “traffic light” coalition government was elected before the “Zeitenwende”, aka the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Since then, illusions regarding energy, fiscal, economic, defence, and migration policies have shattered. Germany must prepare itself for a dangerous world where the American security guarantee is no longer limitless, where global success factors for its economic model are fading, and where society is increasingly torn by distributional and cultural conflicts. As parties seek new answers, distributional battles over who bears the costs of necessary restructuring have already begun. The fractured coalition no longer possessed the strength to make essential strategic decisions. Thus, a new democratic mandate is needed to tackle these monumental tasks—new elections are the way forward.

German voters must decide how their country, which for the past 30 years has relied more than others on economic integration and political interdependence, will handle the disruptions of geopolitical competition and regain agency in a radically changed environment. The electorate faces a stark choice between fundamentally different economic models rooted not only in divergent ideologies but also in opposing interpretations of the geopolitical context.

If the SPD and the Greens, putting behind the trials and tribulations of the traffic light years, pivot towards a course of economic realism, they will face the neoliberal concepts of Lindner’s FDP and the ‘Mr. Blackrock’ Merz-led CDU in the next election. Left-wing populist Sahra Wagenknecht fundamentally denies the need for investments in defence capabilities and instead wants to increase social spending. The AfD, in a Trump-like fashion, views the world as a zero-sum game, where embattled nations fight for survival. For years, the democratic centre has been unable to find an effective remedy against this mixture of nativism, isolationism, and populism.

To counter the populist challenge, voters need a clear understanding of the upcoming challenges and their implications. The vast majority already realise that things cannot continue as they have and that their situation may worsen. They distrust politics and media, feeling that the true extent of the problems is concealed from them and fearing they will once again bear the brunt of the costs. This sentiment fuels populist mobilisation.

What is needed now is a speech of blood, sweat, and tears—one that candidly outlines the magnitude of the challenges ahead and proposes viable, albeit painful, solutions. It must awaken the German people to the reality that their cherished “island of bliss” amid crises and conflicts no longer exists, but also remind them of past triumphs over adversity and their capacity to fortify the nation against coming storms.

[Fulham Broadway 16,853]

13 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

They fixed my catarracts but gave me a little presbyopia !
The normal size you should fix to 20, not me.
Why is 16 normal ???

Default size

[cosmicway 1,323]

2 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Default size

That's 16. It should be made 20.

[Vesper 28,825]

'Bewildering': Foreigners in Sweden explain impact of work permit salary hike

https://www.thelocal.se/20241111/bewildering-and-unfair-how-foreigners-in-sweden-are-affected-by-the-work-permit-salary-hike/

Some have already left Sweden. Some soon will. Some have had their salaries raised, others had requests denied. The doubling of the minimum salary for a work permit has had a major impact on many of the readers who answered our survey.

On November 1st last year, Sweden's higher subsistence requirement for work permits came into force, meaning those applying for or renewing work permits needed to have a salary of 27,360 kronor a month, with the salary rising to 28,480 kronor for new applications from June 2024. 

An analysis carried out by the Swedish Migration Agency into the first year of the higher threshold found that cleaners and hospitality workers had been the most heavily affected, with a sharp fall in both the number of applications and the rate of rejections.  

For one Nigerian family the doubling of the salary requirement spelled the end of three and a half happy years in the country. 

"My family and I were asked to leave Sweden last year because of the new, stricter immigration rules. It was an incredibly painful experience," the 42-year-old father, who had worked as a cleaner in the south of Stockholm, wrote in answer to our survey. "Our application had been delayed—seemingly on purpose—until the new law passed, only for us to find out that while my wife would receive a permit, I, along with our two very young children, would not."

The decision, he said, had felt "both bewildering and unfair". 

"Telling our children broke our hearts; they cried for days, struggling to understand why they had to leave their home. On their last day at school, as they said goodbye, their teachers, friends, and even the parents who had gathered were in tears. Everyone felt the sadness of the moment. To this day, my children hold onto the hope that we’ll return to Sweden because, despite everything, we loved our life there deeply."

Helena, from Russia, had just finished training as a teacher in Sweden when the law came into force, and quickly realised that this meant that all her efforts would come to nothing. 

"All the effort was in vain and my plans on being a teacher in Sweden were broken as teachers, unfortunately, start with a lower salary. The thing is Sweden has a great shortage in teachers, which means it is shooting itself in the foot." 

Others have not yet had to renew their work permits but are in little doubt that when the time comes, they will have to leave. One Ethiopian man, who works as a machine operator in a warehouse despite having a master's in engineering, said that he had little hope of managing to raise his salary. 

"I can no longer apply for work permit because my employer is not even willing to raise my salary by 1,000 kronor," he complained.

A Gambian man was in a similar situation. "The salary requirement has affected me since my salary is not up to the new threshold. This has affected me psychologically, and I always feel stress about my ongoing application, which I've been waiting for a decision on for more than two years." 

An Indian working in Växjö said that he felt that he was being treated more harshly as a labour migrant who had been "diligently contributing to the economy and paying taxes" than asylum seekers, with the new salary threshold "particularly challenging". 

"This change necessitates seeking higher-paying jobs, which is difficult due to the language barrier that many of us face in various fields," he said. "This situation feels unfair to those of us who have legally migrated, worked hard, and adapted to the local culture."

Not everyone saw the change as negative, however. Of the 49 respondents, 17 said they had not been affected by the new rules at all, as their salaries were above the threshold, and some even predicted that they might end up benefiting from the change. 

"I feel more prestigious and secure knowing that I am employed in a country which values high-skilled immigration," wrote another man from India. Nicholas, a 28-year-old Singaporean who works in the medical devices industry, said he hoped that his work permit renewal would now be faster due to a lower number of applications. 

Some foreigners also reported that they had successfully managed to get their employers to increase their salaries, sometimes substantially, to keep them in the country, while others had found new jobs which met the criteria.  

"Thank you to the Swedish government for helping me raise my salary by 120 percent," wrote one Chinese worker living in southern Sweden. 

A man from Pakistan, who works at a McDonald's restaurant near Gothenburg, said that the franchise he worked for had been willing to increase his salary when the new rules came in last November. 

"I requested to my manager and they help me and they raised my salary," he said. "But now it's raised again so they can't help me again. Now I am worried about my future as I have spent almost five years here in Sweden."

One cleaner from Nigeria said that she had had to change jobs four times until she found one that met the salary threshold.  

Another Pakistani man said he had managed in the end to get a job which paid 80 percent of the median salary, but would struggle if the threshold was raised to 100 percent.

"I applied to several jobs but did not find any fulfilling the new salary requirements. Then I took a taxi license and got a job as a taxi driver. But if the salary requirement is raised again, then I'm afraid I won't be able to get another job," he said. 

Maria, a research assistant in biophysics from Russia, said she would not have been able to renew her work permit on the salary she received as a research assistant, but had managed to get offered a PhD position, which had allowed her to stay working.   

A substantial number of respondents were students who were worried that they would not be able to get a sufficiently well-paying job on graduation. 

One Syrian refugee, who had managed to get a place on a masters programme at the prestigious KTH Royal Institute of Technology, said that after nine years in the country, he was afraid he would have to leave as he would be unable to meet the salary requirement.  

"I never got a chance to get a permanent residency, because I have been studying full time and working only part time," he said. "Now that I am soon done with my studies, my first job has to pay so much for me to get a permanent residency, which is simply not realistic for a new graduate." 

One student from Bangladesh pointed out that the sort of internship positions typically available for recent graduates rarely, if ever, paid above the new threshold. 

"After graduation, I could start an internship with a company in my relevant field, but internship positions don't come with such high salary," she said. "Even if I find an internship which could eventually lead to my future career and job, I cannot accept it. I cannot apply for my work permit for an internship position. I must find a permanent job with that much minimum salary requirement just after graduating, which is very hard. As an international student, I am suffering a lot because of this high salary requirement." 

One worker from India said that they had been unable to secure a highly paid job after graduating. "Everyone has to start with a lower salary to gain experience. No company will provide a direct salary of 33,000 kronor or 34,000 kronor, which the migration office was recently planning to implement. Why would someone come to Sweden to study or for a better future when the migration policies are not stable and change every year?"

Several highly-skilled workers, who themselves were paid well enough to meet the threshold, said they were affected indirectly through their spouses. 

"The chances for my wife, who is currently looking for a job, has significantly gone down because of higher salary threshold and she can’t apply for work permit directly any more," said one 28-year-old Indian. 

Another Indian engineer based in Gothenburg, said that the increase had compounded the challenges her husband had in getting a job.

"I am confused by the opposition’s statement – ‘why bring people from outside when there are unemployed people here’. My husband is here, and unemployed, which affects his eligibility for permanent residency. Why apply the rule on extensions for people who are already here?" 

Shahan, a startup founder from Stockholm, said that while he wasn't affected, the new rule had altered his hiring practices. 

"As a co-founder of a startup in Sweden, the work permit salary threshold has just made us outsource the work outside of Sweden instead of finding recruits in Sweden," he said. "I am aware of many organisations, from small to large ones, who have started to move forward with this approach. Not really sure how is this helping Sweden, as it is now going to lose more on taxes, or on how this is reducing joblessness in Sweden." 

While many respondents were unaffected, readers' responses indicate that the change is already affecting people's lives and all the indications are that the impact will deepen.  

In an interview with The Local last week, Hanna Guertsen, the deputy head of the Migration Agency's special focus area for work permits, said that her agency expected that the effects of the salary threshold had yet to be fully felt, as many of those who received work permits in 2023 will only have to renew them next year. 

The government may also push ahead with plans to further hike the requirement for a work permit to Sweden's median salary, which at current levels would take the threshold to 35,600 kronor. (my add --this is around 37,000 euros per year at current FOREX rates, which will have a devastating impact on our workforce and cost of living/consumer prices here, which have already exploded post-Covid)

[cosmicway 1,323]

7 minutes ago, Vesper said:

'Bewildering': Foreigners in Sweden explain impact of work permit salary hike

https://www.thelocal.se/20241111/bewildering-and-unfair-how-foreigners-in-sweden-are-affected-by-the-work-permit-salary-hike/

Some have already left Sweden. Some soon will. Some have had their salaries raised, others had requests denied. The doubling of the minimum salary for a work permit has had a major impact on many of the readers who answered our survey.

On November 1st last year, Sweden's higher subsistence requirement for work permits came into force, meaning those applying for or renewing work permits needed to have a salary of 27,360 kronor a month, with the salary rising to 28,480 kronor for new applications from June 2024. 

An analysis carried out by the Swedish Migration Agency into the first year of the higher threshold found that cleaners and hospitality workers had been the most heavily affected, with a sharp fall in both the number of applications and the rate of rejections.  

For one Nigerian family the doubling of the salary requirement spelled the end of three and a half happy years in the country. 

"My family and I were asked to leave Sweden last year because of the new, stricter immigration rules. It was an incredibly painful experience," the 42-year-old father, who had worked as a cleaner in the south of Stockholm, wrote in answer to our survey. "Our application had been delayed—seemingly on purpose—until the new law passed, only for us to find out that while my wife would receive a permit, I, along with our two very young children, would not."

The decision, he said, had felt "both bewildering and unfair". 

"Telling our children broke our hearts; they cried for days, struggling to understand why they had to leave their home. On their last day at school, as they said goodbye, their teachers, friends, and even the parents who had gathered were in tears. Everyone felt the sadness of the moment. To this day, my children hold onto the hope that we’ll return to Sweden because, despite everything, we loved our life there deeply."

Helena, from Russia, had just finished training as a teacher in Sweden when the law came into force, and quickly realised that this meant that all her efforts would come to nothing. 

"All the effort was in vain and my plans on being a teacher in Sweden were broken as teachers, unfortunately, start with a lower salary. The thing is Sweden has a great shortage in teachers, which means it is shooting itself in the foot." 

Others have not yet had to renew their work permits but are in little doubt that when the time comes, they will have to leave. One Ethiopian man, who works as a machine operator in a warehouse despite having a master's in engineering, said that he had little hope of managing to raise his salary. 

"I can no longer apply for work permit because my employer is not even willing to raise my salary by 1,000 kronor," he complained.

A Gambian man was in a similar situation. "The salary requirement has affected me since my salary is not up to the new threshold. This has affected me psychologically, and I always feel stress about my ongoing application, which I've been waiting for a decision on for more than two years." 

An Indian working in Växjö said that he felt that he was being treated more harshly as a labour migrant who had been "diligently contributing to the economy and paying taxes" than asylum seekers, with the new salary threshold "particularly challenging". 

"This change necessitates seeking higher-paying jobs, which is difficult due to the language barrier that many of us face in various fields," he said. "This situation feels unfair to those of us who have legally migrated, worked hard, and adapted to the local culture."

Not everyone saw the change as negative, however. Of the 49 respondents, 17 said they had not been affected by the new rules at all, as their salaries were above the threshold, and some even predicted that they might end up benefiting from the change. 

"I feel more prestigious and secure knowing that I am employed in a country which values high-skilled immigration," wrote another man from India. Nicholas, a 28-year-old Singaporean who works in the medical devices industry, said he hoped that his work permit renewal would now be faster due to a lower number of applications. 

Some foreigners also reported that they had successfully managed to get their employers to increase their salaries, sometimes substantially, to keep them in the country, while others had found new jobs which met the criteria.  

"Thank you to the Swedish government for helping me raise my salary by 120 percent," wrote one Chinese worker living in southern Sweden. 

A man from Pakistan, who works at a McDonald's restaurant near Gothenburg, said that the franchise he worked for had been willing to increase his salary when the new rules came in last November. 

"I requested to my manager and they help me and they raised my salary," he said. "But now it's raised again so they can't help me again. Now I am worried about my future as I have spent almost five years here in Sweden."

One cleaner from Nigeria said that she had had to change jobs four times until she found one that met the salary threshold.  

Another Pakistani man said he had managed in the end to get a job which paid 80 percent of the median salary, but would struggle if the threshold was raised to 100 percent.

"I applied to several jobs but did not find any fulfilling the new salary requirements. Then I took a taxi license and got a job as a taxi driver. But if the salary requirement is raised again, then I'm afraid I won't be able to get another job," he said. 

Maria, a research assistant in biophysics from Russia, said she would not have been able to renew her work permit on the salary she received as a research assistant, but had managed to get offered a PhD position, which had allowed her to stay working.   

A substantial number of respondents were students who were worried that they would not be able to get a sufficiently well-paying job on graduation. 

One Syrian refugee, who had managed to get a place on a masters programme at the prestigious KTH Royal Institute of Technology, said that after nine years in the country, he was afraid he would have to leave as he would be unable to meet the salary requirement.  

"I never got a chance to get a permanent residency, because I have been studying full time and working only part time," he said. "Now that I am soon done with my studies, my first job has to pay so much for me to get a permanent residency, which is simply not realistic for a new graduate." 

One student from Bangladesh pointed out that the sort of internship positions typically available for recent graduates rarely, if ever, paid above the new threshold. 

"After graduation, I could start an internship with a company in my relevant field, but internship positions don't come with such high salary," she said. "Even if I find an internship which could eventually lead to my future career and job, I cannot accept it. I cannot apply for my work permit for an internship position. I must find a permanent job with that much minimum salary requirement just after graduating, which is very hard. As an international student, I am suffering a lot because of this high salary requirement." 

One worker from India said that they had been unable to secure a highly paid job after graduating. "Everyone has to start with a lower salary to gain experience. No company will provide a direct salary of 33,000 kronor or 34,000 kronor, which the migration office was recently planning to implement. Why would someone come to Sweden to study or for a better future when the migration policies are not stable and change every year?"

Several highly-skilled workers, who themselves were paid well enough to meet the threshold, said they were affected indirectly through their spouses. 

"The chances for my wife, who is currently looking for a job, has significantly gone down because of higher salary threshold and she can’t apply for work permit directly any more," said one 28-year-old Indian. 

Another Indian engineer based in Gothenburg, said that the increase had compounded the challenges her husband had in getting a job.

"I am confused by the opposition’s statement – ‘why bring people from outside when there are unemployed people here’. My husband is here, and unemployed, which affects his eligibility for permanent residency. Why apply the rule on extensions for people who are already here?" 

Shahan, a startup founder from Stockholm, said that while he wasn't affected, the new rule had altered his hiring practices. 

"As a co-founder of a startup in Sweden, the work permit salary threshold has just made us outsource the work outside of Sweden instead of finding recruits in Sweden," he said. "I am aware of many organisations, from small to large ones, who have started to move forward with this approach. Not really sure how is this helping Sweden, as it is now going to lose more on taxes, or on how this is reducing joblessness in Sweden." 

While many respondents were unaffected, readers' responses indicate that the change is already affecting people's lives and all the indications are that the impact will deepen.  

In an interview with The Local last week, Hanna Guertsen, the deputy head of the Migration Agency's special focus area for work permits, said that her agency expected that the effects of the salary threshold had yet to be fully felt, as many of those who received work permits in 2023 will only have to renew them next year. 

The government may also push ahead with plans to further hike the requirement for a work permit to Sweden's median salary, which at current levels would take the threshold to 35,600 kronor. (my add --this is around 37,000 euros per year at current FOREX rates, which will have a devastating impact on our workforce and cost of living/consumer prices here, which have already exploded post-Covid)

Rocambolesque !
All this because of Bin Laden, ultimately.

[Vesper 28,825]

If posters here on TC want to see how fucked up and in denial vast swathes of the US Democratic Party are in, I suggest you go do a deep dive into the biggest (by far) Democratic chatboard in the US:

Democratic Underground (it has been around since early 2001).

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1002

Warning: IF you join and post, they have a 'jury system' whereby any poster can alert on a post, and it is 'luck of the draw' as to who is seated on the jury. Odds are high that your post could be hidden, and if you get 5 hides in 90 days, you are basically banned.

Also, new accounts are under huge scrutiny (from the posters themselves there, plus a team the board (called MIRT ie Malicious Intruder Removal Team) has that can instantly ban new accounts that they consider trolls).

There is a small but incredibly organised group of 'NO criticism of Democrats of any typre should be tolerated, unless it is a 'rip progressives' type of criticism, as that group is centrist to centre right and hates people like Bernie Sanders and AOC, etc etc etc)

 

[Vesper 28,825]

A billboard congratulating Donald Trump in Tel Aviv last week. Thomas Peter/Reuters

[robsblubot 3,504]

1 hour ago, Vesper said:

I disagree, and I had already posted an article discussing that very thing (Dems embracing the Never Trumpers) days before. It absolutely had some effect.

Also, there are multiple reasons why turnout was down and also why she lost.

Choosing one or two  to focus on does not exclude the others.

They all worked synergistically against her.

I live in a blue state that remained as blue as ever. Even CA moved red a bit, but not here.

yes, it’s anecdotal, but I haven’t heard from a single person here of any complaints regarding that.

While I agree there are multiple different things at play, I’m just skeptical that embracing the never Trumpers was one of them, so agree to disagree on this one.

personally, I actually am very much in favor of reaching across and establish conversation. More polarization helps no one.

Edited November 11 by robsblubot

[Vesper 28,825]

5 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

I live in a blue state that remained as blue as ever. Even CA moved red a bit, but not here.

yes, it’s anecdotal, but I haven’t heard from a single person here of any complaints regarding that.

While I agree there are multiple different things at play, I’m just skeptical that embracing the never Trumpers was one of them, so agree to disagree on this one.

personally, I actually am very much in favor of reaching across and establish conversation. More polarization helps no one.