Politics & Stuff

[Fernando 6,585]

1 hour ago, Vesper said:

never said this

not my problem you cannot follow complex system analysis

as for you trying to falsely label it 'conspiracy theory' that just betrays your inabilty to refute what I said

it is a weak fall-back attempt at using ad hominem to try and dismiss positings you do not like

It's just conspiracy theory. Your statement says this: 

Endless wars, endless debt (at all levels from personal up to commercial, from municipal, up to state/provincial levels, from national up to supranational) endless 'strategies of tensions' at all levels, from socio-cultural, socio-economic, up to military at massive trans continental levels. Also the use of systemic banking control to weaken all resistance and put the boot-heels to the so-called middle-class of the West and other parts of the world (think austerity regimes and IMF/World Bank crisis capitalism and state economic dis-empowerment.) who are the natural bulwarks against the entire systemic control.

That is just conspiracy theory. 

[Fernando 6,585]

1 hour ago, robsblubot said:

Yeah. Check Anne Applebaum on YouTube videos, or articles. There was one in particular where she lists Iran, Russia, and N. Korea as an "Axis of Evil" of sorts, but even then she says that the relationship is of convenience--no grand plan or scheme. 

This one (long)

 

In general you will have this with many countries. It's just convenience. 

But the idea that the jews are behind every wrong in the world is just dumb. No nation, ethnicity is enough to control the world. 

As bad as Iran is, they have their hand in the middle east, but not the entire world. 

As bas as Russia is, they have their hand in certain parts of the middle east and in Venezuela but not the whole world. 

No one group or nation can control the whole world. USA is a dominance but not to that extent where every little crime in the world is their causing. 

In Ecuador, USA nor Israel have any hand to all the crime that is happening there. Is just organize crime that stems from drug cartel, which in turn because of money and power. Not to mention the mass corruption that has happen in Ecuador and many other countries like in the middle east, Africa and all over the world. 

But a small group to control the whole world like Zionism, please. 

Edited October 23, 2024 by Fernando

[Vesper 30,195]

30 minutes ago, Fernando said:

It's just conspiracy theory. Your statement says this: 

Endless wars, endless debt (at all levels from personal up to commercial, from municipal, up to state/provincial levels, from national up to supranational) endless 'strategies of tensions' at all levels, from socio-cultural, socio-economic, up to military at massive trans continental levels. Also the use of systemic banking control to weaken all resistance and put the boot-heels to the so-called middle-class of the West and other parts of the world (think austerity regimes and IMF/World Bank crisis capitalism and state economic dis-empowerment.) who are the natural bulwarks against the entire systemic control.

That is just conspiracy theory. 

It is not conspirarcy theory in the slightest.

It is global systems analysis.

It is based entirely upon facts on the ground and actual outcomes.

Massive debts at all levels (from public to private), brutal austerity regimes, crisis/disaster capitalism, and the economic disempowerment of nation states' sovereignty via banking systemic interlocks are entirely real manifestations.

Ludicrous to try and claim otherwise.

Edited October 23, 2024 by Vesper

[Vesper 30,195]

AI Is Threatening More Than Just Creative Jobs—It’s Undermining Our Humanity

The debate on AI and job loss misses the deeper impact: by automating creativity, we risk devaluing the very essence of human expression.

https://www.socialeurope.eu/ai-is-threatening-more-than-just-creative-jobs-its-undermining-our-humanity

Something is missing in the debate about generative Artificial Intelligence (AI) and creative workers losing their jobs. The current conversation reduces creative activity to content production: marketable output. But creativity is so much more. It’s our attempt to articulate what we feel inside, both intellectually and emotionally. Being creative means grappling with the mess we encounter in our lives and on this planet—and somehow coming to terms with it, both collectively and individually. A debate that suggests only jobs are lost when generative AI takes over misses the essence of what creativity entails.

Let’s take a step back for a moment. AI has its hype cycles, and so do the doom scenarios it spawns. A decade ago, when neural networks took off, they were seen as dreadful harbingers of impending mass unemployment. Now, in 2024, many European companies struggle not with mass lay-offs but with filling vacancies. Company bosses with tech Fear Of Missing Out (FOMO) promise to “definitely look into” adopting AI in their firms. However, it rarely goes much further than that. For better or worse, economy-wide AI implementation lags behind expectations.

Was the job market doom just a false alarm? Not quite. In many sectors, AI is not a major concern so far. Most taxi drivers need not lose sleep yet over self-driving Waymo cars. In some sectors, though, AI does encroach on jobs, and creative roles are on the front line. Generative AI is already quite capable, and it’s improving daily.

Top-notch opera composers or painters with work in the Guggenheim may have nothing to fear. However, people who pay the rent by creating, say, illustrations for websites or jingles for radio ads are right to be nervous. Like many others who see their livelihoods under threat, it’s legitimate for them to protest and demand a debate about their future. And let’s not forget: today’s Grammy winners started out small, probably funding their first steps with run-of-the-mill creative work. Eliminate that, and you dry up the pipeline for tomorrow’s superstars as well.

That is the state of play in the “AI and creative work” debate in a very small nutshell. However, something has always felt wrong to me about it, and I think it is its narrowness. Framing the issue as one of job loss views creativity through the economistic lens of the company boss or consultant: content in exchange for money. If there’s a cheaper way to produce something that sells just as well, what’s not to like? Job types have always come and gone. Is it a bane that, at least in wealthy countries, no one ploughs fields by hand anymore? And from that perspective, is automated text writing any different from using a machine, rather than hands, to sort through rubbish in a recycling plant?

I think it is. Creativity is communication. People start playing music to connect with others, not to earn money. They craft lyrics to touch others, to soothe them, to express their anger, whatever. Just as people wield a paintbrush to project something onto the canvas that is still nestled somewhere between their heart and brain, they show others what they could not possibly articulate in words.

Creativity is also self-reflection. People used to write diaries to order their thoughts, to delve into their feelings, and to express them. It can be a cathartic experience, or simply a calming one. If you’ve tracked your life in a diary—as a teenager, perhaps?—you’re familiar with this moment: once you listen inwardly to write down what’s truly going on, things emerge that we would otherwise never articulate. Secret longings, frustrations at work, relationship troubles, fears. Diary writing is not about chronicling your life but about reflecting on it.

Self-expression, communication, and reflection help us navigate days, months, and years. If you walk around with open eyes, there is enough beauty, violence, existential questions, and agony out there to bewilder us. Whether you prefer Beethoven’s 9th Symphony or UK Grime, here are real people making music to translate their experiences into something that resonates with fellow human beings. Others use TikTok videos or novels as their medium of choice.

Long story short, creativity is a virtue that deserves nourishment (I borrow the virtue aspect from Shannon Vallor’s fantastic books on philosophy and technology). Creativity, even in small doses, can help us grow into better people, happier people, for ourselves and for each other. That’s why we should allow children to doodle and engage in handicrafts at school, and why a liberal arts education might encourage students to keep a diary. Even if you’re not a professional painter or writer of any kind, being creative is beneficial. It fosters empathy and forges connections with others, often on a visceral level—like sampling food that just tastes great, no explanation required. Creative expression can link people in the same way.

But this creativity is like a fragile plant. To blossom, it needs care, nutrients, and regular watering. Enter GenAI. Yes, algorithms are impressive at making hip-hop beats or wallpaper designs. However, the more we outsource creative work to algorithms, the more we allow creativity, as a faculty in our society, to shrivel. In theory, GenAI could be a tool to boost your creativity, producing even funkier creations (you’ll find quite a bit of that in contemporary art galleries these days).

But I bet that in practice, GenAI is mostly a quick fix to produce more content more cheaply and quickly, not a means to elevate artistic expression to a whole new level. It would be a shame if people stopped making pencil drawings because, by now, DALL-E is so much better. It would also be a shame if people stopped penning poems because now Meta’s Llama outperforms them.

I realise that even now, hobby poets are rare. But if anything, we should want more of them, not fewer. Cultural traditions and religions around the world prize self-reflection and artistic expression. Secular thinkers like Karl Marx and John Maynard Keynes hoped that technological progress would eventually free us to devote more time to play and create.

There is no news here, but that’s not the world we live in in 2024, despite the abundance of new technology. We do find people in our societies who earn money through creative work—even if it is rarely substantial. They combine commercial work, such as magazine illustrations, with their non-commercial projects, like pictures they give to friends as gifts. Most musicians never break through on Spotify, getting by instead on guitar or clarinet lessons for children. There is a creative stratum in society, in short, that isn’t about artsy superstars but consists of people who keep alive the creative dimension of our human existence.

If these people were to lose their livelihoods, not only would their jobs disappear. The musical education for our children would also vanish, along with the creative classes at community schools, the art classes at colleges, and the entire notion that investing time in honing creative faculties is worthwhile. Algorithmic “content production” would, de facto, if not intentionally, devalue creativity in its entirety.

And that would be a loss for all of us. Open a newspaper or your social media feed, and you find discord all around—frequently in the form of deadly violence on small and large scales. This world could use all the healing it can get. And creative faculties could help. So, automating our creative side away would come with collateral damage far beyond some lost employment down the line.

Compare that to the message of the recent Draghi Report. The ex-ECB boss’s message to the EU was: invest and compete, or die. Digital technologies, with AI central among them, are key domains that Draghi believes need boosting. Put on narrow economistic glasses, and you can see his point. People do need jobs and cash to buy food and pay the rent. But a thriving society is not just a web of economic nodes that shuffle money and products around. So when we debate GenAI and creative activity, it is at our own peril that we sever the economic side from the rest of our existence. It is not just jobs that are at risk.

[IMissEden 21]

Lived a lot of life. Varied. Genuinely, never heard, experienced, someone as stupid. I think you guys know she’s a brainless puppet pushing others plans - and don’t mind that, since it infers being taken care of by a big group who want to handle things. 
 

Doesn’t change facts. 
 

Hard to find someone as lacking in ability to form thoughts. Is genuinely incredible. 

Note the scrambled brain, dishonesty, dodging, swaying, oozing of anxiety. Disgusting puppetry, and disgusting to condone it. Wrong side of history, but just lambs lead by a well dressed shepherd. No idea. Really. Seriously.   
 

Always mock-laughs, forcing it, when talking Trump, to try belittle, as cannot win on ideas or merit whatsoever even an iota. Definition of a popularity contest. Again, one side is largely honest, one side is not. 

 

Edited October 24, 2024 by IMissEden

[cosmicway 1,333]

12 hours ago, Vesper said:

You are showing your fidelity to the vile framings of the ultra RW racist tribal-supremacist zionists by adopting the verbal posturing used by so many of the worst of that lot.

You are trying to dehumanise and erase an entire group of people.

Amazingly similar to how the Nazis used framings to do the same thing to the jews back in the day.

 

The region was called Palestine under the British mandate.
Palestine it was named by the Romans.
The Arab tribes living there were not calling themselves Palestinians.
A few years after the six day war Yassir Arafat invented the Palestinians.

[Fulham Broadway 17,319]

 

• U.S.
• Donald Trump

Donald Trump’s Long Love for McDonald’s, Explained

5 minute read

Republican presidential nominee former U.S. President Donald Trump works behind the counter during a visit to McDonald’s restaurant in Feasterville-Trevose, Pa., on Oct. 20, 2024.Doug Mills—Pool/Getty Images

 

Republican presidential nominee former President Donald Trump’s campaign stop at a McDonald’s in suburban Philadelphia on Sunday has sparked bemusement and bewilderment from onlookers. 

 

Could be related ?  

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has issued a warning about an active E. coli outbreak, with cases linked to McDonald’s popular Quarter Pounder sandwich.

This outbreak is currently affecting 12 states and has already led to 49 reported illnesses, 10 hospitalizations, and one death.

[cosmicway 1,333]

---
 

 

Edited October 24, 2024 by cosmicway

[Vesper 30,195]

3 hours ago, cosmicway said:

The region was called Palestine under the British mandate.
Palestine it was named by the Romans.
The Arab tribes living there were not calling themselves Palestinians.
A few years after the six day war Yassir Arafat invented the Palestinians.

No.

Genetic studies indicate a genetic affinity between Palestinians and other Levantine populations, as well as other Arab and Semitic groups in the Middle East and North Africa.

Historical records and later genetic studies indicate that the modern Palestinian people descend mostly from from ancient Levantines, extending back at least to the Neolithic inhabitants of the Levant, over twelve thousand years ago (when the Neolithic age began there), and likely far longer. 

They represent a highly homogeneous community who share one cultural and ethnic identity, speak Palestinian Arabic and share close religious, linguistic, and cultural practices and heritage with other Levantines (ie Syrians, Lebanese, and Jordanians).

The Neolithic age began around 12,150 years (that date is being constantly revised and narrowed to a more exact date as futher archaeological evidence is found) ago, when farming appeared in the late Epipalaeolithic Near East (including the Levant) and Mesopotamia, and later in other parts of the world. 

The Early Epipalaeolithic, also known as Kebaran (approximately 20,000 to 12,150 BP, subject to revision as futher archaeological evidence is found) followed the Upper Paleolithic Levantine Aurignacian (formerly called Antelian) period throughout the Levant.

The Levantine Aurignacian (approximately 40,000-20,000 BP, subject to revision as futher archaeological evidence is found) is an Upper Paleolithic culture of the Near-Eastern Levant that evolved from the Emiran culture.

Emiran culture (approximately 60,000–40,000 BP, subject to revision as futher archaeological evidence is found) was a culture that existed in the Levant (Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, Israel, Jordan and Arabia) between the Middle Paleolithic and the Upper Paleolithic periods. It is the oldest known of the Upper Paleolithic cultures. It transitionally has no clear African progenitor. 

[Vesper 30,195]

17 minutes ago, Vesper said:

No.

Genetic studies indicate a genetic affinity between Palestinians and other Levantine populations, as well as other Arab and Semitic groups in the Middle East and North Africa.

Historical records and later genetic studies indicate that the modern Palestinian people descend mostly from from ancient Levantines, extending back at least to the Neolithic inhabitants of the Levant, over twelve thousand years ago (when the Neolithic age began there), and likely far longer. 

They represent a highly homogeneous community who share one cultural and ethnic identity, speak Palestinian Arabic and share close religious, linguistic, and cultural practices and heritage with other Levantines (ie Syrians, Lebanese, and Jordanians).

The Neolithic age began around 12,150 years (that date is being constantly revised and narrowed to a more exact date as futher archaeological evidence is found) ago, when farming appeared in the late Epipalaeolithic Near East (including the Levant) and Mesopotamia, and later in other parts of the world. 

The Early Epipalaeolithic, also known as Kebaran (approximately 20,000 to 12,150 BP, subject to revision as futher archaeological evidence is found) followed the Upper Paleolithic Levantine Aurignacian (formerly called Antelian) period throughout the Levant.

The Levantine Aurignacian (approximately 40,000-20,000 BP, subject to revision as futher archaeological evidence is found) is an Upper Paleolithic culture of the Near-Eastern Levant that evolved from the Emiran culture.

Emiran culture (approximately 60,000–40,000 BP, subject to revision as futher archaeological evidence is found) was a culture that existed in the Levant (Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, Israel, Jordan and Arabia) between the Middle Paleolithic and the Upper Paleolithic periods. It is the oldest known of the Upper Paleolithic cultures. It transitionally has no clear African progenitor. 

compare that to

Abraham (c. 1813 BCE - c. 1638 BCE) (the person that Jews, Christians, and Muslims all trace their eventual founding paths to, ie the 3 'Abrahamic religions')

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/abraham

According to Jewish tradition, Abraham was born under the name Abram in the city of your in Babylonia in the year 1948 from Creation (circa 1800 BCE). He was the son of Terach, an idol merchant, but from his early childhood, he questioned the faith of his father and sought the truth. He came to believe that the entire universe was the work of a single Creator, and he began to teach this belief to others.

Abram tried to convince his father, Terach, of the folly of idol worship. One day, when Abram was left alone to mind the store, he took a hammer and smashed all of the idols except the largest one. He placed the hammer in the hand of the largest idol. When his father returned and asked what happened, Abram said, "The idols got into a fight, and the big one smashed all the other ones." His father said, "Don't be ridiculous. These idols have no life or power. They can't do anything." Abram replied, "Then why do you worship them?"

Eventually, the one true Creator that Abram had worshipped called to him, and made him an offer: if Abram would leave his home and his family, then G-d would make him a great nation and bless him. Abram accepted this offer, and the b'rit (covenant) between G-d and the Jewish people was established. (Gen. 12).

The idea of b'rit is fundamental to traditional Judaism: we have a covenant, a contract, with G-d, which involves rights and obligations on both sides. We have certain obligations to G-d, and G-d has certain obligations to us. The terms of this b'rit became more explicit over time, until the time of the Giving of the Torah. Abram was subjected to ten tests of faith to prove his worthiness for this covenant. Leaving his home is one of these trials.

Abram, raised as a city-dweller, adopted a nomadic lifestyle, traveling through what is now the land of Israel for many years. G-d promised this land to Abram's descendants. Abram is referred to as a Hebrew (Ivri), possibly because he was descended from Eber or possibly because he came from the "other side" (eber) of the Euphrates River.

But Abram was concerned, because he had no children and he was growing old. Abram's beloved wife, Sarai, knew that she was past child-bearing years, so she offered her maidservant, Hagar, as a wife to Abram. This was a common practice in the region at the time. According to tradition, Hagar was a daughter of Pharaoh, given to Abram during his travels in Egypt. She bore Abram a son, Ishmael, who, according to both Muslim and Jewish tradition, is the ancestor of the Arabs. (Gen 16)

When Abram was 100 and Sarai 90, G-d promised Abram a son by Sarai. G-d changed Abram's name to Abraham (father of many), and Sarai's to Sarah (from "my princess" to "princess"). Sarah bore Abraham a son, Isaac (in Hebrew, Yitzchak), a name derived from the word "laughter," expressing Abraham's joy at having a son in his old age. (Gen 17-18). Isaac was the ancestor of the Jewish people.

Abraham died at the age of 175.

Edited October 24, 2024 by Vesper

[cosmicway 1,333]

10 minutes ago, Vesper said:

No.

Genetic studies indicate a genetic affinity between Palestinians and other Levantine populations, as well as other Arab and Semitic groups in the Middle East and North Africa.

Historical records and later genetic studies indicate that the modern Palestinian people descend mostly from from ancient Levantines, extending back at least to the Neolithic inhabitants of the Levant, over twelve thousand years ago (when the Neolithic age began there), and likely far longer. 

They represent a highly homogeneous community who share one cultural and ethnic identity, speak Palestinian Arabic and share close religious, linguistic, and cultural practices and heritage with other Levantines (ie Syrians, Lebanese, and Jordanians).

The Neolithic age began around 12,150 years (that date is being constantly revised and narrowed to a more exact date as futher archaeological evidence is found) ago, when farming appeared in the late Epipalaeolithic Near East (including the Levant) and Mesopotamia, and later in other parts of the world. 

The Early Epipalaeolithic, also known as Kebaran (approximately 20,000 to 12,150 BP, subject to revision as futher archaeological evidence is found) followed the Upper Paleolithic Levantine Aurignacian (formerly called Antelian) period throughout the Levant.

The Levantine Aurignacian (approximately 40,000-20,000 BP, subject to revision as futher archaeological evidence is found) is an Upper Paleolithic culture of the Near-Eastern Levant that evolved from the Emiran culture.

Emiran culture (approximately 60,000–40,000 BP, subject to revision as futher archaeological evidence is found) was a culture that existed in the Levant (Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, Israel, Jordan and Arabia) between the Middle Paleolithic and the Upper Paleolithic periods. It is the oldest known of the Upper Paleolithic cultures. It transitionally has no clear African progenitor. 

They were not called Palestinians though.
They were called various tribes.
It is possible Nasser did n't want them to be called anything to keep them out of Egypt.
These people were living together with the Jews but were never at peace.
Some relative peace existed under Ottoman rule.
In 1941 Hitler planned to send his fallschirmjagger there but the fallschirmjagger were decimated in Crete (Crete fall but the fallschirmjagger were destroyed).
Would have been a most daring operation since Hitler did not have naval forces, so he abandoned the idea - expected to reach there through the Egypt route.
After the war Jews and Arabs could have lived together there but the Arabs declared war. In Egypt it was still Farouk, the king, who went to war and then Nasser continued the hostilities.

[Vesper 30,195]

1 minute ago, cosmicway said:

They were not called Palestinians though.
They were called various tribes.
It is possible Nasser did n't want them to be called anything to keep them out of Egypt.
These people were living together with the Jews but were never at peace.
Some relative peace existed under Ottoman rule.
In 1941 Hitler planned to send his fallschirmjagger there but the fallschirmjagger were decimated in Crete (Crete fall but the fallschirmjagger were destroyed).
Would have been a most daring operation since Hitler did not have naval forces, so he abandoned the idea - expected to reach there through the Egypt route.
After the war Jews and Arabs could have lived together there but the Arabs declared war. In Egypt it was still Farouk, the king, who went to war and then Nasser continued the hostilities.

they are the same people

you cannot erase them

nor their incredibly long history in the region

tens of thousands of years before there was any such thing as 'Jews'

Abraham was not even born until around 1800 BC.

The Jews had not controlled the area that is Israel for over 2,000 years when they created the modern nation state of Israel in 1948.

I already have posted (multiple times, and from a Jewish source) the hsitorical Jewish population in area now called Israel. 200 years ago it was less than 10,000, 500 years ago it was 5,000 or so. 

In 1882 it was around 24,000.

At the end of WWI, it was 60,000 (versus 600,000 non jews).

The zionists truly started flooding in (in ever-larger numbers) in the 20th century and took over, to disastrous effect on the non jewish population there.

They used a Bronze age religious claim to usurp land they had not controlled for over 2000 years.

 

 

 

 

 

[cosmicway 1,333]

23 minutes ago, Vesper said:

they are the same people

you cannot erase them

nor their incredibly long history in the region

tens of thousands of years before there was any such thing as 'Jews'

Abraham was not even born until around 1800 BC.

The Jews had not controlled the area that is Israel for over 2,000 years when they created the modern nation state of Israel in 1948.

I already have posted (multiple times, and from a Jewish source) the hsitorical Jewish population in area now called Israel. 200 years ago it was less than 10,000, 500 years ago it was 5,000 or so. 

In 1882 it was around 24,000.

At the end of WWI, it was 60,000 (versus 600,000 non jews).

The zionists truly started flooding in (in ever-larger numbers) in the 20th century and took over, to disastrous effect on the non jewish population there.

They used a Bronze age religious claim to usurp land they had not controlled for over 2000 years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This census info obviously includes parts of Jordan and the West Bank which they were going to have but they 're not because they are going to use it as a rocket base against wafer thin Israel to the west,

Edited October 24, 2024 by cosmicway

[Vesper 30,195]

3 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

includes parts of Jordan and the West Bank

which the hyper zionists (Bibi, Likud, and the other, even more radical parties who make up his coalition) claim is all Israel's as well (Eretz Yisrael), and have claimed it all for ages, again as has been documented here by some of us for years.

Those same hyper zionists helped nurture and fund the brutal, murderous, terrorist Hamas organisation in order to divide and conquer (Gaza played off against the West Bank, with the hyper RW zionist project's goal of taking it ALL).

You take a dog, simultaneously beat it and feed it, make it vicious AF, but still keep it fighting fit, you cannot be surprised when that dog turns on you.

[Fernando 6,585]

5 minutes ago, Vesper said:

which the hyper zionists (Bibi, Likud, and the other, even more radical parties who make up his coalition) claim is all Israel's as well (Eretz Yisrael), and have claimed it all for ages, again as has been documented here by some of us for years.

Those same hyper zionists helped nurture and fund the brutal, murderous, terrorist Hamas organisation in order to divide and conquer (Gaza played off against the West Bank, with the hyper RW zionist project's goal of taking it ALL).

You take a dog, simultaneously beat it and feed it, make it vicious AF, but still keep it fighting fit, you cannot be surprised when that dog turns on you.

Israel funded Hamas? So your saying that the rockets they threw on October last year was all funded by Israel? Because as far as I'm aware is by Qatar. 

And another thing if Gaza at this moment is dying of food and all that stuff, how come Hamas has not died of this? Where they getting their food? Unless they are stealing the Palestinian aid. 

One year and Hamas still alive and fighting. Insane help they are getting if you ask me. 

[Fernando 6,585]

15 hours ago, Vesper said:

It is not conspirarcy theory in the slightest.

It is global systems analysis.

It is based entirely upon facts on the ground and actual outcomes.

Massive debts at all levels (from public to private), brutal austerity regimes, crisis/disaster capitalism, and the economic disempowerment of nation states' sovereignty via banking systemic interlocks are entirely real manifestations.

Ludicrous to try and claim otherwise.

Analysis by who? A conspiracy theory that hates USA and Israel. 

That analysis does not hold water in El Salvador. I don't see the baking systemic interlocks there?

Or say Ecuador, I don't see baking systemic interlock there. 

What about Haiti? 

[Vesper 30,195]

4 minutes ago, Fernando said:

Israel funded Hamas? So your saying that the rockets they threw on October last year was all funded by Israel? Because as far as I'm aware is by Qatar. 

And another thing if Gaza at this moment is dying of food and all that stuff, how come Hamas has not died of this? Where they getting their food? Unless they are stealing the Palestinian aid. 

One year and Hamas still alive and fighting. Insane help they are getting if you ask me. 

Number one, before all else, I am NOT, have never been, and never will be pro Hamas.

I am NOT accusing you of saying I am, I just want to make that clear for all here (yet again).

I also am NOT anti Jewish, hell, I myself am of partial Portuguese Sepahrdic Jewish descent in my make-up, on my mum's side (along with a lot of other backgrounds, black sub-Saharan African, English, Scottish, Swedish (half, my father is all Swedish), Chinese (Han), East Indian, and Lebanese Arab). My siblings and I are like WWII in a genetic admixture, lol, all we are missing (in terms of major antagonstic elements) are Russian and Persian (that I know of).

 

now..............

 

The Netanyahu government aided in the facilitation of their funding.

(not the first time this has been posted, but it never hurts to remember)

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces

The premier’s policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

By Tal Schneider 
8 October 2023, 3:58 pm

For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group.

The idea was to prevent Abbas — or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government — from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state.

Thus, amid this bid to impair Abbas, Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad.

Hamas was also included in discussions about increasing the number of work permits Israel granted to Gazan laborers, which kept money flowing into Gaza, meaning food for families and the ability to purchase basic products.

Israeli officials said these permits, which allow Gazan laborers to earn higher salaries than they would in the enclave, were a powerful tool to help preserve calm.

Toward the end of Netanyahu’s fifth government in 2021, approximately 2,000-3,000 work permits were issued to Gazans. This number climbed to 5,000 and, during the Bennett-Lapid government, rose sharply to 10,000.

 

Since Netanyahu returned to power in January 2023, the number of work permits has soared to nearly 20,000.

Additionally, since 2014, Netanyahu-led governments have practically turned a blind eye to the incendiary balloons and rocket fire from Gaza.

Meanwhile, Israel has allowed suitcases holding millions in Qatari cash to enter Gaza through its crossings since 2018, in order to maintain its fragile ceasefire with the Hamas rulers of the Strip.

Most of the time, Israeli policy was to treat the Palestinian Authority as a burden and Hamas as an asset. Far-right MK Bezalel Smotrich, now the finance minister in the hardline government and leader of the Religious Zionism party, said so himself in 2015.

According to various reports, Netanyahu made a similar point at a Likud faction meeting in early 2019, when he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.

While Netanyahu does not make these kind of statements publicly or officially, his words are in line with the policy that he implemented.

The same messaging was repeated by right-wing commentators, who may have received briefings on the matter or talked to Likud higher-ups and understood the message.

Bolstered by this policy, Hamas grew stronger and stronger until Saturday, Israel’s “Pearl Harbor,” the bloodiest day in its history — when terrorists crossed the border, slaughtered hundreds of Israelis and kidnapped an unknown number under the cover of thousands of rockets fired at towns throughout the country’s south and center.

The country has known attacks and wars, but never on such a scale in a single morning.

One thing is clear: The concept of indirectly strengthening Hamas — while tolerating sporadic attacks and minor military operations every few years — went up in smoke Saturday.

Just a few days ago, Assaf Pozilov, a reporter for the Kan public broadcaster, tweeted the following: “The Islamic Jihad organization has started a noisy exercise very close to the border, in which they practiced launching missiles, breaking into Israel and kidnapping soldiers.”

The difference between Islamic Jihad and Hamas doesn’t matter much at this point. As far as the State of Israel is concerned, the territory is under the control of Hamas, and it is responsible for all the training and activities there.

Hamas became stronger and used the auspices of peace that Israelis so longed for as cover for its training, and hundreds of Israelis have paid with their lives for this massive omission.

The terror inflicted on the civilian population in Israel is so enormous that the wounds from it will not heal for years, a challenge compounded by the dozens abducted into Gaza.

Judging by the way Netanyahu has managed Gaza in the last 13 years, it is not certain that there will be a clear policy going forward.

[Fernando 6,585]

21 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Number one, before all else, I am NOT, have never been, and never will be pro Hamas.

I am NOT accusing you of saying I am, I just want to make that clear for all here (yet again).

I also am NOT anti Jewish, hell, I myself am of partial Portuguese Sepahrdic Jewish descent in my make-up, on my mum's side (along with a lot of other backgrounds, black sub-Saharan African, English, Scottish, Swedish (half, my father is all Swedish), Chinese (Han), East Indian, and Lebanese Arab). My siblings and I are like WWII in a genetic admixture, lol, all we are missing (in terms of major antagonstic elements) are Russian and Persian (that I know of).

Thanks for this, not needed but good to know. 

21 minutes ago, Vesper said:

The idea was to prevent Abbas — or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government — from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state.

 

Based on this article it appears that Netanyahu and his team does not want a two state solution. So if that is true a two state solution will never happen under him, but he is human. One day he will die and someone else will take his place. The two state solution will happen in the future. 

 

21 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Thus, amid this bid to impair Abbas, Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad.

 

This sounds a lot of like Obama doing the deal with Iran and them getting money.....Besides the interest they hope peace will happen. 

 

21 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Hamas was also included in discussions about increasing the number of work permits Israel granted to Gazan laborers, which kept money flowing into Gaza, meaning food for families and the ability to purchase basic products.

 

This is good and bad. Good that lets economy flow into Gaza, but the problem is what happen last year. If they are not for peace they will eventually turn their back against you. 

We can try our best to help people, improve their economy, but if hatred is deep in them a long lasting peace will never happen. 

 

21 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Toward the end of Netanyahu’s fifth government in 2021, approximately 2,000-3,000 work permits were issued to Gazans. This number climbed to 5,000 and, during the Bennett-Lapid government, rose sharply to 10,000.

 

A new government increase these work permit in hope to "help" the Gaza people. 

 

21 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Meanwhile, Israel has allowed suitcases holding millions in Qatari cash to enter Gaza through its crossings since 2018, in order to maintain its fragile ceasefire with the Hamas rulers of the Strip.

 

A sort of convenience because from this it seems they want to maintain some sort of peace. But yeah Qatari giving money......

 

21 minutes ago, Vesper said:

One thing is clear: The concept of indirectly strengthening Hamas — while tolerating sporadic attacks and minor military operations every few years — went up in smoke Saturday.

 

Again this is the same strategy USA is doing with Iran. One day it will backfire against us as well. And why? for USA is because we want peace, but the other side hatred is there and they will wait for the right moment to attack, as happen here. With Israel I see two things based on this article, 1 the desire not to let a two state solution happen and 2 to try to have some sort of peace. Which backfire on them. 

I feel like after Israel finish with their wars Netanyahu will eventually be question by their own government. He will have to face the consequences.  

Edited October 24, 2024 by Fernando

[Vesper 30,195]

Here is a RW historian's hot take on the election (MAGA bro Larry Schweikart, who has pushed disinfo in the past, but of course that did not stop Trump from appointing him to the Board of Directors of the National Board for Education Sciences, which advises leaders of the Department of Education's research division.) 

(I believe, atm, it is massively overly-optimistic for Trump):

 

https://open.substack.com/pub/theliberalpatriot/p/how-harris-wins?r=21qpx&utm_campaign=comment-list-share-cta&utm_medium=web&comments=true&commentId=73622798

First, the early vote/ballot request has just destroyed traditional Democrat "firewalls" in NC, NV, PA, and AZ.

In some ways, these elections are already locked up. The only question is that of margin.

In NV for example, in 2020 Ds had an early vote advantage of 40,000 to win by 33,000 in an election rife with fraud. Now? They are basically tied, plus or minus 1400. Once the Trump "underpoll" factors in, and the advantage Trump has in pulling Ds (over Harris's inability to pull any Rs at all except Liz Cheney), Trump will win NV by about 40-60,000 votes. (When John Ralston has give up in NV, you know it's over) Pretty sure Rs took Clark Co early vote yesterday.

In GA, the black vote has completely tanked. "Souls to the Polls" was a disaster. You are looking at about a 5-point drop from 2020 in black vote, BUT about a 5-point increase in the white vote. Trump will win GA by 4.5 to 5.

NC is not close at all. Despite the claims the hurricane would hit the western party, they are turning out en masse. NC is looking to be Trump +4, again especially given the huge gap in increased white vote/decreased black vote.

AZ has been long gone for Harris. Rs have a fluctuating 25,000-35,000 early vote lead but again in AZ many Ds will vote Trump, and very few Rs will be voting Harris. FL is going to come in as I predicted, Trump +10.

And there were actually people saying FL and TX would be close. The most interesting is PA, where early on Ds were saying that a "firewall" of 200,000 net early vote advantage would do it.

That was quickly moved to 400,000, then 600,000. Yesterday pollster Rich Baris put the number at 800,000. Hard to do when Rs keep gaining in every single new data drop.

Trump is on target to carry PA by 150,000 votes even after shenanigans or the "Margin of Fraud."

VA is now turning competitive. Harris had to move more $ there. Right now it's about a 5- point race, but as in PA, every single new vote drop has Rs slightly gaining. If this is within 2 on election day, Trump will narrowlly eke this one out too.

Both MI and WI are polling Trump +1, MI with the last three state pollsters. (Baris too, as with Trafalgar). WI is about the same, most pollsters having this Trump +1. WI is much more likely to turn out a rural red wave than MI, so it's not unlikely Trump wins the state by 1.5.

Significantly, Harris withdrew all advertising from Milwaukee after early ballot requests from the red rurals came in extremely high.

This election today is Trump 312 EVs and a 1 point pop vote victory. But it easily can do a Jimmy Carter and spiral into a 340 EV victory and 1.5 popular vote, because even NY and CA are showing 5-10 point rightward movement in voter registrations.

There is not one chance in a million Harris wins this.

end

 

I think he is full of shit (I am NOT making a call yet as to who wins, but when this bloke, for instance, starts claiming VA goes to Trump, he is just spewing bollocks).

IF this asshat is actually correct, the Republicans will also easily win the House and the Senate and then it's 'hold onto your collective arse' time for the planet.

 

 

[Vesper 30,195]

8 minutes ago, Fernando said:

This sounds a lot of like Obama doing the deal with Iran and them getting money

AP FACT CHECK: Trump’s mistold tale of Obama and Iran

https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-ap-top-news-tehran-barack-obama-john-kerry-f53aeebcb0f64b76a2e2a54b2b002dad

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump on Monday assailed the Obama administration for being hoodwinked by Iran, making his case with a frequently told and false story about the U.S. giving billions of dollars to Tehran.

In an extended news conference with French President Emmanuel Macron and other remarks at the G-7 summit, Trump also asserted inaccurately that the U.S. has the cleanest air, as well as energy riches that only he brought to life. Many countries outperform the U.S. on measures of air quality. Energy production surged under President Barack Obama.

Here’s a look at some of Trump’s statements and how they compare with the facts:

IRAN

TRUMP on Iran: “We gave them $150 billion and $1.8 billion and we got nothing. ... Look at what they did to John Kerry and to President Obama. Look what happened, where they’re bringing planeloads of cash, planeloads, big planes, 757s, Boeing 757s coming in loaded up with cash. What kind of a deal is that?” — news conference with Macron.

THE FACTS: It’s the kind of deal that did not actually take place.

When Iran signed the multinational deal to restrain its nuclear development in return for being freed from sanctions, it regained access to its own assets, which had been frozen abroad. There was no $150 billion gift from the U.S. treasury or other countries. Iran was allowed to get its money back.

The $1.8 billion refers to a separate matter, also misstated by the president going back to before the 2016 election.

A payout of roughly that amount did come from the U.S. treasury. It was to pay an old IOU.

In the 1970s, Iran paid the U.S. $400 million for military equipment that was never delivered because the government was overthrown and diplomatic relations ruptured. After the nuclear deal, the U.S. and Iran announced they had settled the matter, with the U.S. agreeing to pay the $400 million principal along with about $1.3 billion in interest.

The $400 million was paid in cash and flown to Tehran on a cargo plane. The arrangement provided for the interest to be paid later.

In Trump’s telling, one cargo plane with $400 million that was owed to Iran has become “big planes, 757s, Boeing 757s,” loaded with a $1.8 billion giveaway.

snip

 

I will add:

Trump withdrew from the Iran nuclear agreement in May 2018. Following the death of General Qassem Soleimani, an Iranian military commander, in a U.S. drone strike in January 2020 that was authorized by Trump, Iran said that it would no longer abide by the terms of the agreement, which they were adhering to up until that point in time. Trump's own actions have caused Iran to re-start their nuclear programme.