Mikel vs Blackburn: Vertical Passes from the "Horizontal Man"

[blue out west 27]

It's not bashing. Relax yourself.

Nothing to do with the fact he's from Barcelona. He could come from Nottingham Forest for all I care, but from what he's done when he's called upon, he deserves his place. I'm sick and tired of explaining Mikel & Romeu's differences. I'm not saying Mikel is shit ffs. I'm saying there's a different situation where Romeu is effective & where Mikel is.

Romeu isn't better in any way though, thats the thing. He has about the same amount of pace but is smaller and not as strong. Also a good passer of the ball and quite composed but those are Mikel's best qualities. I see Romeu as being a bit more of a natural defender than the converted attacking mid Mikel and for his age is the better tackler (and defender overall). The point is I don't see a situation where Romeu should be played instead of Mikel.

Andre's been playing Mikel more like a playmaker than like an anchor man, and I'm glad about that because Mikel is one of the two best passers we have along with Mata.

Mikel is playing in the wrong position, though. With Andre insisting a high line, we need a midfield sweeper with decent pace like Romeu in the DM position. Mikel should move to the CM position where we can influence the game better.

I think the reason why AVB plays the formation he does with defense and midfield is because we have such a good box to box in Ramires and a versatile centre/left mid in Lamps. WIth Mikel playing the centre space between and behind those 2, they can move freely and link with the fullbacks in attack. AVB is also having Mikel circulate the ball around to start attacking moves and retain possession if a more advanced player gets too much pressure. In possession it looks like he's playing a Pique type role with the 2 CBs behind and to the side w/ both fullbacks advancing, so it ends up with like a 2-1-4-3. I like that the way we're playing provides a lot of width and every game it seems are spacing is getting much better.

[Kojo 4,676]

Stuff like this completely mystifies me. Mikel is an attacking mid/centre mid who was converted to DM. Also, when he plays DM people should expect him to play the position, its not the DM role to make forward runs off the ball and be aggressive with movement. A DM is supposed to move into space left behind and cover for players going forward. Mikel is always the only mid that doesn't have the license to pretty much pass and move as he pleases or make runs into the box. Romeu would've gotten out of position vs Valencia as he doesn't have as good ability to read moves and wouldn't done as well under pressure. I like Romeu but he has a lot to grow, and Essien is more like Ramires than Mikel (box to box not DM).

If he passed forward more he wouldn't be a DM, he'd be a totally unnecessary deep lying playmaker. If Mikel wasn't primarily played in a holding position then it would put undue workload and make a waste of players like Lamps and Mata.

I think he's clearly the best DM we have and for good reason, maybe there's Xabi Alonso ahead of him in the world but he is pretty damn good at the position. Not to say that he couldn't be quality played further up the pitch, but we need him more back at DM.

You seriously think he's one of the best in his position?, well sorry but that mystifies me, Mikel rarely tracks players and hasnt got the pace to break up play, Romeu has, and how do you know that?, how do you know Romeu would of looked lost?, put your crystal ball away for a second. Obviously no one is invincible, somethings happen which cannot be controlled, it's basically just really good football, but Valencia were taking a dump in our half and Mikel couldn't do anything, Romeu could of at least done something and had the pace too, it would of at least kept some control in the team and confidence. Mikel in my opinion is too slow. I'm not talking about he should stick in DM, i think he's wasted there and could of been a better central midfield player, rather than being a defensive midfielder. His passing is something we are missing out on, but it's my opinion and fair enough if you think Mikel can do a better job than Romeu.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Logic 101:

Just because someone says that a player is better than another player, does not mean that he is implying that the latter is shit/no-good. It's like saying: "Getting a PHD is better than just graduating college." ; That does not, by any means, insinuate that college graduates are stupid.

My point is, no one is bashing Mikel. This thread is made to praise Mikel. However, I believe that the point that was being made is that Romeu has put in great performances every time he set foot on the pitch, and has showed he has the ability to play at a higher tempo (I don't mean he has more pace) than Mikel. So maybe he has a earned the right to a chance to prove himself at a higher level in the form of a couple of PL matches starting position.

[Blue Armour 4,439]

If there's one thing Romeu does have over Mikel- its pace. This allows him to track back easily when the whole team goes out on the attack, and suddenly there's a counter. Also helps in bringing the ball out of defense a lot quicker.

Mikel pretty much covers everything else.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Logic 101:

Just because someone says that a player is better than another player, does not mean that he is implying that the latter is shit/no-good. It's like saying: "Getting a PHD is better than just graduating college." ; That does not, by any means, insinuate that college graduates are stupid.

My point is, no one is bashing Mikel. This thread is made to praise Mikel. However, I believe that the point that was being made is that Romeu has put in great performances every time he set foot on the pitch, and has showed he has the ability to play at a higher tempo (I don't mean he has more pace) than Mikel. So maybe he has a earned the right to a chance to prove himself at a higher level in the form of a couple of PL matches starting position.

Bravo, brilliant post

[blue out west 27]

You seriously think he's one of the best in his position?, well sorry but that mystifies me, Mikel rarely tracks players and hasnt got the pace to break up play, Romeu has, and how do you know that?, how do you know Romeu would of looked lost?, put your crystal ball away for a second. Obviously no one is invincible, somethings happen which cannot be controlled, it's basically just really good football, but Valencia were taking a dump in our half and Mikel couldn't do anything, Romeu could of at least done something and had the pace too, it would of at least kept some control in the team and confidence. Mikel in my opinion is too slow. I'm not talking about he should stick in DM, i think he's wasted there and could of been a better central midfield player, rather than being a defensive midfielder. His passing is something we are missing out on, but it's my opinion and fair enough if you think Mikel can do a better job than Romeu.

Well Mikel does do a better job than Romeu, its not really my opinion. Valencia was one game where he could've been better but he didn't exactly get a lot of help either. He still probably made less mistakes in that first half then Romeu did in stoppage time vs Blackburn. Where is his pace anyway? If Romeu is faster than Mikel the difference is quite small.

How many better players than Mikel @ DM?

@ CHOULO19

...and I'm not saying Romeu is shit because Mikel is a better player. I wonder what "great performances" you're referring too... I thought he had a mature and very effective game vs a weak visiting Genk side... Romeu is and will continue to get time in PL games but when you come on @ 90' in a 1-0 game and immediately concede a dangerous FK its not the greatest way to make your case. Concerning the whole tempo issue people have with Mikel, they'd be well served to rewatch his games this season and compare that to the role he played for CA and JM. Also, I'm sure AVB is asking the same of Romeu and Mikel tactically and he's simply playing who's best for the role. If there's chalkboards to compare their passing I'm sure they look pretty similar in terms of horizontal vs vertical.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Well Mikel does do a better job than Romeu, its not really my opinion. Valencia was one game where he could've been better but he didn't exactly get a lot of help either. He still probably made less mistakes in that first half then Romeu did in stoppage time vs Blackburn. Where is his pace anyway? If Romeu is faster than Mikel the difference is quite small.

How many better players than Mikel @ DM?

@ CHOULO19

...and I'm not saying Romeu is shit because Mikel is a better player. I wonder what "great performances" you're referring too... I thought he had a mature and very effective game vs a weak visiting Genk side... Romeu is and will continue to get time in PL games but when you come on @ 90' in a 1-0 game and immediately concede a dangerous FK its not the greatest way to make your case. Concerning the whole tempo issue people have with Mikel, they'd be well served to rewatch his games this season and compare that to the role he played for CA and JM. Also, I'm sure AVB is asking the same of Romeu and Mikel tactically and he's simply playing who's best for the role. If there's chalkboards to compare their passing I'm sure they look pretty similar in terms of horizontal vs vertical.

Actually I meant his great performances in the carling cup (each a 120 mins), during which he showed tactical awareness and passing abilities way beyond his age. I can get why you think he's not ready to start PL matches if you haven't watched these two performances. I felt the same way before them as well.

Now if you look at the stats here: (which by the way only include PL matches). You can actually see clearly that Romeu has a much higher successful forward passing percentage than Mikel, but more importantly you can see that he has the highest interception per 90min ratio in the entire Chelsea squad, which in my opinion would make him a great success with our high-line defending.

Again, I'm not saying that Romeu is better than Mikel, he has no where near as much experience as him. I just think that with the performances he's put in, it is worth a risk to start him in a few PL matches instead of Mikel.

Same goes for Rayan Bertrand imo as well.

[The Big Drog 1,110]

I'm not a fan of Mikel in the DM role. Too many times midfielders find their way into our box without Mikel tracking them, too many times he looks slow and lumbering in midfield, too many times he slows down our play when he is on the ball, too many times games just pass him by ala Michael Carrick. imo he is a poor replacement for the man who used to play in holding midfield for us, Claude Makelele, and I also think Essien is far better in that position than Mikel also. Id much rather see Romeu given starts in the Premier League than Mikel.

[madalista 30]

Actually I meant his great performances in the carling cup (each a 120 mins), during which he showed tactical awareness and passing abilities way beyond his age. I can get why you think he's not ready to start PL matches if you haven't watched these two performances. I felt the same way before them as well.

Now if you look at the stats here: http://forum.talkche...s-october-2011/ (which by the way only include PL matches). You can actually see clearly that Romeu has a much higher successful forward passing percentage than Mikel, but more importantly you can see that he has the highest interception per 90min ratio in the entire Chelsea squad, which in my opinion would make him a great success with our high-line defending.

Again, I'm not saying that Romeu is better than Mikel, he has no where near as much experience as him. I just think that with the performances he's put in, it is worth a risk to start him in a few PL matches instead of Mikel.

Same goes for Rayan Bertrand imo as well.

looking at the table in detail you find out that romeu has not attempted a single long foward pass to date....it mostly short passes that romeu attemps. in my opinion when we hit our stride itll be good to give romeu time aganst the leagues weaker teams...but at the moment we are finding it hard to beat the weaker teams. its not the right time to play him ahead of mikel.

[GodZola 630]

Romeu, the guy who coming on in just for stoppage time made more mistakes than Mikel did through 90. So sick and tired of the Mikel bashing. There is nothing Romeu does better, people are just on his nuts because he's from La Masia.

I suggest you take a look back at Mikel's cameo against Utd this season before you judge Romeu for a brief introduction - its never easy to come off the bench.

[blue out west 27]

Actually I meant his great performances in the carling cup (each a 120 mins), during which he showed tactical awareness and passing abilities way beyond his age. I can get why you think he's not ready to start PL matches if you haven't watched these two performances. I felt the same way before them as well.

Now if you look at the stats here: http://forum.talkche...s-october-2011/ (which by the way only include PL matches). You can actually see clearly that Romeu has a much higher successful forward passing percentage than Mikel, but more importantly you can see that he has the highest interception per 90min ratio in the entire Chelsea squad, which in my opinion would make him a great success with our high-line defending.

Again, I'm not saying that Romeu is better than Mikel, he has no where near as much experience as him. I just think that with the performances he's put in, it is worth a risk to start him in a few PL matches instead of Mikel.

Same goes for Rayan Bertrand imo as well.

I don't think he's not at all ready for the PL but I wouldn't say he would be a top DM in the PL on the back of 2 good CC outings (where he had almost zero pressure) and 1 good home game vs Genk who is even weaker than the CC squads used by Everton and Fulham.

As for those stats Romeu has a really small sample size against poor opposition in some of the least consequential games that we've been involved in. In those those games he hasn't really been under consistent pressure at any time, whereas Mikel was the motor that kept us in control vs QPR with 9 men. On the subject of forward passes you should look at the chalkboards and also remember how those games were. Forward passing success rate from a DM is highly affected by the kind of pressure and formation being played by the defense.

You really want to see Bertrand play over Ashley? Are you mad? I can understand playing Bertrand and Romeu over Ashley and Mikel for squad rotation purposes against weaker opposition but seriously... that's crazy.

I suggest you take a look back at Mikel's cameo against Utd this season before you judge Romeu for a brief introduction - its never easy to come off the bench.

Comparing Utd to Blackburn... Kean > Fergie? Heh. Seriously thats a pretty funny post.

[robdog 2,084]

You really want to see Bertrand play over Ashley? Are you mad? I can understand playing Bertrand and Romeu over Ashley and Mikel for squad rotation purposes against weaker opposition but seriously... that's crazy.

LMAO. Hell I even seen some people post they would rather have Josh start over Supa Frank Some of the things our own fans say

[blue out west 27]

LMAO. Hell I even seen some people post they would rather have Josh start over Supa Frank Some of the things our own fans say

Too true, and look at what the youngsters have done for Arsenal. I'm happy we have smart managers who make selections based on the real world and not back pages. Back on topic I've been waiting for years to see Mikel's passing and other attacking traits utilized. He's so strong you naturally want to see that strength deployed in the best part of the pitch but AVB has found a good system to make use of both his athleticism and technique.

[robdog 2,084]

Too true, and look at what the youngsters have done for Arsenal. I'm happy we have smart managers who make selections based on the real world and not back pages. Back on topic I've been waiting for years to see Mikel's passing and other attacking traits utilized. He's so strong you naturally want to see that strength deployed in the best part of the pitch but AVB has found a good system to make use of both his athleticism and technique.

I don't if you read this article from The Chels a few of months back, but it talks about the some same topics you hit on. I like this vid to showcase some of Obi Wan Mikel's talents. Talents that we are so used in seeing, we think it's easy:

[The Big Drog 1,110]

I don't want to sound like Im making Mikel some kind of devil figure, he isn't. He has a good attitude, he does his best and he has made improvements in his game the last few years, however all of the tribute videos in the world wont change what we already know. We see Mikel play week in, week out, we know what kind of player he is and we know what standard of player he is. He is a decent squad option, handy if we ever have an injury crisis in midfield but he should not be the first choice holding midfield player for the reasons I've previously outlined in the thread and no amount of tribute videos will convince me otherwise.