Barbara

time to develop an identity and gain chemistry. Manchester City has been a testament to that for years now. 9 out of 10 times a team needs time when there's a new manager and too many new players (or in our case start from scratch in terms of philosophy and tactic). The problem is patience is a virtue rarely found in the world of football fans, although many of us bitch a bit just after the match and then we cool down. There's also those who never cool down though and demand immediate changes. Immediate changes all the time pays off as well as it has had for City in the last 5 seasons... one EPL title that was United to lose and they lost it pathetically.

Well, so tell me all the key-passes, assists and goals he scored for us in the matches he played this season. Do that and I won't say he's been poor. I didn't say he is a poor player - that's nonsense, I said he's been poor in the matches he played and his numbers show that. He either produced nothing worth mentioning or he was his usual defensively - which means bad. People need to understand that there's nothing wrong saying a player is playing bad - even if he's Messi or Ronaldo - if they happen to play bad! Mata did nothing for us this season! I'm not saying we should sell him or that he won't ever be good for us. But when others are playing better and we are clearly struggling to win matches, play Mata for the sake of him needing minutes is starting to cost us matches! If you tell me it's more important to make him regain his form than win matches, I may agree with you, it's one way to view it as we are a team in transition winning isn't as important as defining a style, a philosophy. We need to create an identity as a team and if we need Mata to regain form for that, so be it. But denying he's been poor in the matches he played this season is a bit delusional imo. Anyway, I'm waiting for the stats. Passing the ball to the side is something even Mikel can do. So other than that and one good play for Eto'o last Sunday (that wasn't that exceptional, as Eto'o was marked) tell me what Mata did this season that contradicts my statement. I really want to read it from you or the people who liked your post.

you've missed my first post it seems. I said he destroyed the match because the formation killed our attack - in addition to him not being sharp and losing possession too many times - we stopped pressuring in the attack and that's because Oscar was moved to the wing where he's basically useless. It's not a criticism on him alone, it's more on Mourinho. Mata can't play in the wing and neither can Oscar. Mata isn't sharp and we completely lost control of the match once he was brought. It's not that he is this terrible player although he was poor. Has he been only poor and didn't compromise the formation (which isn't his fault) we probably wouldn't have offered so many chances to Basel because we would still be in control of the match as we were before Mata. It was a risk, one I wouldn't have taken because 1-0 was too dangerous as it proved to be. I said in his thread he needs the minutes, but his minutes are now costing us... Again I'm not saying he is the problem, I'm saying he creates a problem for us when he plays with Oscar, especially when we have so many good options to play as wingers - something we didn't have last year. I'm slamming the sub more than I'm slamming the player - although the player deserves criticism because his contribution in the match was mainly negative because of the many occasions he lost possession in 30 minutes... Summarizing. If Mourinho wanted to play Mata he should have taken Oscar off, but that didn't make sense because Oscar was the best player in the pitch. What did Oscar create after Mata joined? Who continued with Willian's contribution? While Willian wasn't lethal or even that dangerous, he was creating things, holding the ball, keeping us in the attack. Winning 1x0 that's enough especially because in one of those moments a good chance can actually be created (let's not take the credit away of Basel's excellent defensive work). I'm complaining more about the sub than the player - although the player didn't do anything to justify his presence either. Or did he?

I agree with someone else who complained about those complaining about overreaction ( ) because not all critics are overreaction... There are facts. We made mistakes today. If we state those mistakes and we say we're complicating our way in the easiest possible group it doesn't mean we're overreacting. we are stating facts. Or does a loss home help us in anyway? Or can we deny mistakes were done? I don't agree with people saying we won't qualify, José should be sacked, and whatnot. We need to be patient, but we also need to be fair with the mistakes we did. It's one thing to complain about one match and how it happened, it's another completely different thing to say we're fated to failure. It's too early to judge the team and Mourinho, both need time, but we can criticize the mistakes done. Nothing is lost, except the match - that is. But mistakes were made and they should be acknowledge. There is overreaction, I agree, but there is also a lot of fair assessment about our mistakes. We will improve and the results will come. Our attack continue to be a big liability as well. Eto'o was probably too battered from the match against Everton, but the alternatives are so hopeless... and I happen to disagree with whoever think that Lukaku would have made a difference... because it seems like we'll listen that record the whole season... along with the Sturridge and the Moses tracks.

Bringing out Mata was the mistake. Sort of. He had three options 1) Kevin for Willian (the best of them) or Hazard; 2) Mata for Oscar - but that didn't make any sense as Oscar was by far our best player in the pitch; 3) Mata for Willian or Hazard. There are two problems with the Mata sub 1) Mata has been poor this season. We were winning only 1-0 and we were doing well when he was brought in, so there was no need for that 2) If he wants to play Mata he has to take Oscar off. The two of them together is counter-productive as neither of them produce well in the wings. Last season we didn't have better options for the wing, this year we have tons of them. I hope Mourinho learned this lesson. For Mata to play he has to play where Oscar has been playing - no where else. Oscar can't perform at the wing at all, he should never be played there. As for Hazard... well, he's playing bad, frustrating, but Mourinho won't touch him and as I said in the live match thread it's not like our other wings are playing much better than him. André has been doing more, but I don't know if he's much better than him. Anyway, he won't see the bench - although he deserves.

I have no idea which match you've watched, I'm positive it wasn't the one the rest of the world did. Mata destroyed the team and was good for nothing. Not ONE good play from him, but I can remember many times losing possession and looking useless. Absolutely useless. Composure? Sorry, no way in hell. He showed a lot of lack of it if anything.

two people responsible for this loss: Mata for playing and Mourinho for thinking it would help. He killed the match with that sub and after Mata came in we never pressured again in the attack, he lost possession too many times and created bloody nothing for us.

Yeah, I'm 100% behind him, but bringing Mata was a mistake... which I wonder what people that was saying he's shitty because he doesn't use Mata enough will say. For some is lose-lose when it comes to him, but he made a mistake that cost us the match imo. Mata may not be directly responsible for the goals (indirectly he was responsible for one), but he killed our creativity (writing this sounds so absurd, but it's so true) in the attack and stopped pressuring because not only he added absolutely nothing to the attack, he also lost possession 5 times - that I've counted - could have been more.

Eden dived/fell more than normal today...

Lukaku could have done nothing in this match... the ball was barely passed to Ba or Eto'o in the whole match, I don't know where people is getting that notion from... but whatever

yeah, all creativity Oscar was delivering disappeared once Mata got in. I've said it too many times, he has to play CAM, there's no way we can play with both Oscar and Mata if one of them is in the wing. None work well there...

Mata has been nothing but a liability ever since he was brought to the match... I've counted four times he missed possession... one of them started their goal...

well, Mata was sort of snoozing when he missed possession that gave them the counter... but our defense is nowhere solid

oh how we needed that shot by Oscar to have got in...

4-1-3-2?

Oscar is killing it right now! I guess the thing with Eden - I'm frustrated, but I think he's focusing so much on improving his work-rate - which he did amazingly - and the fact that he's always over-marked and he's struggling. While I see a difference between how both him and Mata are being handled, we have to take into account that Oscar is playing really well, while André or Kevin are playing the same level or at most slightly better than Eden. I was annoyed by it, but I realized that we have the Oscar factor against Mata while I don't see someone playing much better than Eden. Eden needs the minutes, he'll find his foot. He's too young and I guess maybe Mou is a bit intimidating (regarding how much he demands work-rate from his players). But he's been a bit frustrating - I agree.

Oscar... you're special, love. That's why I bought your shirt. #special

I worry a bit about Marco getting another yellow... I mean he's a bit nervous still - imo - and he's so physical that maybe in one of those he shows a bit too much strength or else and get sent off for a second yellow

I'm not sure he doesn't like Mata, but the thing is Oscar picked from where he finished last season while Mata is struggling to find his best form - sharpness wise. So it's a combination of things. As for Hazard, I agree. No matter how well Kevin, André or Willian play (not saying they're performing necessarily better than Eden) deliver, Mourinho won't take Eden away from the team. So while I see a different treatment between Eden and Mata, but that's Mourinho. He has his untouchables. He's the first one to tell you that and he already used this term during this spell and he used it a lot in his first. Those are the players he trusts. In addition to Eden and Oscar, I feel Ivan, Ramires and Lamps (shape allowing) are pretty much untouchable as well.

Oscar is the only "untouchable" under Mourinho that actually earned the status this season (from the midfield up). He's the only one that keeps delivering and why Mata is being benched. And that's not because of two goals, but the options he provides, the work-rate, the way he makes up space for us. Keep that up, kid and hopefully the other "untouchables" will earn it on result, not potential. To be fair, Lamps has been playing well in some matches and the ones he doesn't it's just because I still think playing 2x a week it's too much for him.

FUCK YEAH OSCAR!!!!

frustrating doesn't even start to cover it *sighs*

Cole is barely useful in the attack... can he just stay a bit deeper as he's been outran time after time?

and here I thought math was an exact science where for example 3 is more than 1...