Barbara

before that happens, Hazard will have surpassed Mata's, as it's only 60 pages behind now. Way more likely to happen. This thread will die soon and it'll only be revived every time he has an assist or a goal for United - just like Sturridge's thread. As we have quite a good attacking midfield now, that has been working just fine for the whole season without Mata (unlike our strike force without Dani) and I don't see Mata shining promptly (or ever, as long as Moyes is there) for United, even Dani's thread might get more posts than Mata's in a few weeks from now...

I don't like him as a CB... and neither does Mourinho. But the same Mourinho said he wouldn't play Luiz in the midfield (which is also my opinion) and he's played there a few matches. So maybe Mourinho would go back in his words, because I think if Luiz is sold (which he won't at least until the summer), Mourinho might be more willing to give Ivanovic a chance rather than deploying newly arrived Zouma or Kalas there. Maybe you're right about Zouma. I'd still prefer us to sign another proper and experienced CB if we part ways with Luiz. *********** btw, if I were to choose a future for Luiz based on how much I like him and forget about Chelsea, I'd say sell him asap. He's lost his joy of playing, it's been a very complicated months for him here, I think with time it may even affect his production in the NT (which is never of my concern, but I'm sure is his #1 priority). So he deserves to go somewhere he'll be appreciated and his style of defending is too. I think he's deflected right now and in a bad place, so if I had to support a decision based on his feelings and on my feelings for him, I'd say, get rid of him. But I still think it's better for Chelsea to keep him, even if he's deflected, sad, miserable as he looks lately.

Hazard is our best player, by a very fair lead. He should play where it's the best for the team, regardless of Oscar form or lack of form. If he proves he's the best option to do what Mourinho requires from a #10 now (which is a lot of work-rate to balance the midfield) we should go with it. I'm just not sure if we wouldn't be wasting him a bit there now. Oscar has a very important tactical role in the team right now, and I think giving that responsibility to Eden will harm the team and also Eden's progress. Right now Eden also have defensive responsibilities, but they're lighter on a winger than on a CAM - at least that's what Jose said when he explained why Mata was playing in the wing. I think the system will mature as well as our players. In the future our pivot will be stronger (when Matic is fully adapted) and probably we won't demand as much work-rate from our #10. If by then Hazard plays better in the CAM position than in the LW position, we should play him as the #10. And if Salah is better in the wing than Oscar and Willian (which with time or maybe even right now he might be) than one of the two might be benched. I just don't think we should sacrifice the system for Hazard now (and we'd be sacrificing by giving him a free role) or that we should sacrifice Hazard for the system now, moving him to a position where the system demands a lot more of work-rate and defensive responsibilities.

defensive? I was just giving my insight in said discussion, if anything you're the one who came defensive. I'm defending Hazard here, if you haven't noticed by the comment when I said it's natural in the future he earns the freedom to roam as he pleases. I'm just saying football isn't like math when you do exact calculations and things are like that. 2 years ago Hazard and current Hazard are completely different players. To know if he's better as a #10 we should test him now, not simply come to that conclusion because of what he's showed 2 years ago, especially in a position our current system doesn't afford (being responsibility free). In the future the system will afford it and he's the right man to receive the privilege - whether in the wing or in the middle. I don't know how saying that is me being defensive. edit: what does Oscar have to do with anything? I said Oscar and Willian can do decent in the wings for us to test Hazard in the middle, without deploying Salah.

and when have I ever said we shouldn't sell him? I'm just saying Mourinho won't release him as easily because his case isn't that similar to Mata (although there are some similarities). It's one thing to say we should sell him and it's another to say I don't think we will. All my posts in the subject here fit the latter. For a good amount of money I think we should sell him, but we should also sign another more experienced CB to replace him simply because of what I just said, Terry being prone to pick injuries and Cahill having a dig in form (just like Luiz had) would leave us short in the position and the current replacements would impact the team negatively.

I'd be much more confident about him there than Kalas or a newly-signed Zouma, who will only be available next season. Terry isn't getting any younger and I'm very thankful he didn't pick an injury this season (and I hope it stays that way), but six months from now he'll be six months older and we don't know how long Cahill's form will last. Cahill is at his best form of his career at age 28. If he's peaked at age 28, then why can't Luiz too? That right there should invalidate your pragmatic theory that Luiz is too old to improve. Cahill did. Everyone with two eyes (and even without any football knowledge) can watch vids just from last season and this season and see Cahill improved a lot. We don't know how long that will last (again I also hope it stays that way for a long time), so what's wrong with having a strong contingency plan? And people should be convinced of something that Mourinho said many times: Luiz isn't for sale. I'm not saying Chelsea won't accept a bid for him. But since pre-season and in both transfer windows Mourinho has been emphatic on turning down bids for him, saying he isn't for sale and that he won't leave. That was never how Mourinho talked about Mata or de Bruyne - both of which he said he'd like to keep, but that could leave if they saw fitting. The only way I can see Luiz leaving now is if he puts a request to leave or if we receive 40m+ bid for him. And the reason why Mourinho won't release him as easily as he's released Mata and de Bruyne is simply because he knows that if something affects Terry's or Cahill's good form, or if Luiz regains his form again, he has the right man for the job... Luiz has made wonderful matches for us in the 3 years he's here, against Liverpool including, so if he's in form, I don't see why he shouldn't play. Regardless of his form though, to say Zouma or Kalas (!) should be higher in the picking order for such a match is nonsense.

Everyone knows Hazard is a better player now than he was last season, let alone two seasons ago at Lille, then how can people say he's better playing as a #10 if they haven't seen the current Hazard playing there for a bigger streak? He's had a few cameos there during some matches and I didn't see anything better than when he's in the wing, quite the opposite actually, he was better in the wing than when he was in the middle. I think Oscar has been playing much better in the wing than he did in the past. Willian can also play in the wing and Salah isn't here to displace either of them, so while we could keep the same three and have Eden in the middle, I don't see it improving us. I just don't think it's viable, but not because of the options we have for the wing, but simply because I'm not convinced Eden is going to have more impact there than he's having in the wing. Unless we make him Benitez's Mata 2.0... I didn't watch Lille (don't watch French footie), but I've read many of you saying in his last few months there he had a role similar to Mata here last year: #10 without any other responsibility other than attacking. If our system couldn't afford Mata, why can it afford Hazard (although I'm the first to say Hazard is the best footballer among the two)? For what I understand his stats improved a lot simply because he was exempted from any other responsibility... I don't feel like we should give him such freedom right now (in the future I think it's the natural course of things, but he's not ready yet). Also I'm not sure we can look at this in such a pragmatic way. Just because 2 years ago he was better in this position - having privileges he shouldn't be given now - it doesn't mean now it'll be the same. He's not the same player he was two years ago, what if all the progress he's made suits the wing more than the middle? He plays in the middle for Belgium (at least he did in the matches I've watched) and that Hazard fades in comparison to Chelsea's Hazard, even the Hazard before Mourinho... (although that may happen for a number of reasons - the system Wilmots have in place; Wilmots himself; Hazard being similar to Messi - great in the club, but not able to replicate it in the NT, etc...)

right because when Terry picks yet another injury that he's been so prone in the last couple of years, or when one between him or Cahill collects a 6th yellow card and any of those things happen to be before an important match we should just throw Zouma or Kallas there, let's say, against Liverpool. It seems like an amazing plan imo...

Hey, you're better than this, sweetie.

Well it would help if you actually addressed the concerns rather than deeming any criticism of Mourinho as a knee-jerk reaction to the loss. If you read the forums you'd see my concerns with Ramires and Ivanovic's technical ineptitude is shared by many and has been for a while. Except I just answered a post among a few saying how Mourinho blows things off, makes us defensive and doesn't provide enough goals for Chelsea fans... you may have a point I even agree with but this thread has a lot of bullshit about Mou as a manager which is different from making specific complaints as you did. I had a lot of problems with the lineup too. It means in my opinion he made a mistake not that he sucks bc he doesn't aim to win 6x0 like City do. Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4G using Tapatalk

The only negativity I see is your approach about it. We are not Liverpool or City. It's beyond me why people insist on the comparison. Winning 3x0 I'm a happy cookie and don't give a fuck about what would Liverpool or City do!!!! Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4G using Tapatalk

Didn't like the line up, but disliked even more how the changes took so long. Why on earth did Mikel start and why took Mourinho so long to sub him? Hammers didn't attack at all and while I'd have gone with a Ramires Matic pivot, I would definitely bring Lampard on 46' seeing how they've parked the bus. Mourinho didn't make sense imo. I wouldn't have brought Ba either. We couldn't break their two lines of five ahead of box, and then you bring another box player that didn't saw the ball in the 15 minutes he's played. The match wasn't bad, but Mourinho made bad decisions that I can't say cost us the match, as we had again shots in the post and keepers doing mini-miracles. Still bad team selection, even worse subs and his complaints after the match are nonsense. He played for a draw against Spurs, United, Arsenal. He has no rights to complain when someone does the same to his team. I just disagree with whoever says Mourinho can't complain about teams parking the bus because some of his teams parked it in the past. Mourinho's teams were very solid defensively and had a defensive approach of the game, but Mourinho didn't use to park the bus - like di Matteo did for example. There's a difference of a defensive team or a team built from defense and a team parking the bus. Still he shouldn't complain about it. Huge disappointment about the result, but well, sometimes life sucks

oh yeah, because that's all he did this season with his two astonishing 2 assists for us in 15 matches. You're absolutely right.

this is the kind of match we need Hazard to solve for us... otherwise we won't be able to score. I'm not demanding it from him, I'm just saying we depend on our most talented player to solve those matches

Eto'o is so annoyingly selfish. Why try to dribble a thousand players instead of passing?

one of those strikes have to get in because they have way too many people inside the box and around it for us to linkup and get inside it. Ramires, Oscar, Willian, Hazard need to get one in

I love Ramires, but God he can be so frustrating with his passing. It drives me nuts

we miss Matic already.... don't get why he didn't start in all honesty

Willian hair is pretty awesome. Nothing changes it That's black power Cech is awesome too, and so is Oscar. Yeah, I'm catching up in my commentary

I want a Matic-Ramires pivot. Same as usual in the AM and Eto'o (I still think he's better than Ba) As for the defense, I don't know if José will play Cole. If he plays as good as he did against Stoke, I'm all for it, otherwise bring Azpili in the LB. I'm pro Terry-Cahill partnership and Iva in the right. Good to know Arsenal only drew. They have a few away complicated matches such as us, Everton, Liverpool and Spurs. Even ManCity at Emirates might be too much for them to handle. In comparison we have away Pool and City and we'll host Le Arse and Everton from the top 6. I think Le Arse is screwed and I'll enjoy watching their fall. As usual.

^^ so happy about this one.

he left Schurrle in front of the goal and Andre hit the post just last match. He had another great pass then I don't remember to who - probably Eto'o. Nobody is defending Oscar's every ability. You just spoke some BS when you called him useless offensively bar his goals. Oscar is no genius offensively, but he offers more than being our second top scorer and tackles in the season. And even those tackles should be counted as offensive when they're made in the attacking third and because of him we have a chance to try a shot. He creates space, he gives good passes, he links up with our other attacking players. Just because he isn't as brilliant as Mata creating chances it doesn't mean he's useless as you said he is. I don't feel like we are the ones acting like fanboys here in all honesty.

Found this in another forum (well, after I checked that one I checked the other three I'm a member, but haven't been on in months) According to the posters, the source is The Sunday Times on Jan 19th. In all honesty... how can one not love Oscar? His so smart and he's mature and down to earth on his declarations (in portuguese where it doesn't feel like he'll have a combustion, lol). The way he talks about Hazard, his role and how he expects to evolve is amazing. I love the kid

I thought it was a joke, but I still can't understand it (but I want to, hahahaha). ************************************************* There aren't classier acts than Juan Mata in the world of football. I think for his frustration taking over when he was subbed off against Southampton is because things were already in a level that was unsustainable. We should keep in mind that's a human being with feelings just like us. He felt hurt, he felt he wasn't good enough (for the system, which is true, but also painful). I think he was taken by surprise by how things went. There's the part where we coldly analyze the facts, but we should also remember how difficult it must have been for him to be in such a position and he's acted like the gentleman he is through all this - except in the Southampton gate, that everyone here knows how I feel and even then I understand it was just too much for him to handle. So while I think he misbehaved, I think it was because he's reached his limit. The press will be pushing for the reaction they've got from some of us simply because Mata's good boy reputation doesn't sell as much as mercenary, traitor, weak Mata sells. It's very simple and it's a shame some people bait it. I've seen few players show as much respect for their former club as Mata did through all of this. When I say I'm inclined to think he's left because he realized the battle was bigger than he's first assessed I don't blame him because although I said in this thread many times I wanted to give him more time to adapt, I'm also inclined to think no matter how hard he's tried, he wouldn't outplay the competition for the position in the aspects Mourinho considers important. Yes, he may have given up, but we need to put things in context. How much of a chance he's had to start with? Very little imo and that's why I'm not offended, hurt (can't even find a word that would describe what I was entitled to feel, as I think any professional player should make the decisions that work better for their career without being criticized and scrutinized for it, that I in reality ain't entitled to have a say at all, just feelings). He did what was best for him and let's not pretend any of us wouldn't do the same. I'm positive the last thing he took into account was the money because it was very clear for me through all his time here he didn't mind being paid much less than many other players we had. I think it was just a big deception for him to become a squad player and when he's realized he had enough and when Mourinho realized he was hurting as much, they both agreed easily to let him go. I really believe it when he says he was surprised the club let him go easily. In all seriously, I got teared up when I read it because I think he must have felt unappreciated by 'the power to be'. I think he understands why Mourinho wouldn't be a bump, but I think he was deeply hurt the board seemed so willing to let him go without even requesting more money. Again, that's a human being with feelings, and from afar I'd say he's a very sensitive person, so it must be even worse for him. Another thing I suppose must have hurt him is that the fans aren't that vocal about his departure in general. Yes, there's a lot of buzz from internet fans, I'm sure he's read some comments around on his blog, and probably other places, but I felt the fans that went to the Bridge were dismissive or to say the least unattached with very few manifestations of discontentment. Sadness yeah - even though I saw only one sign - but it seemed like most part of the fans are behind Mourinho (and that's the wise thing to do imo because we're proving to be better now than we were in those past two years). It must hurt him a bit too. I'm always harsh on Mata - but that is looking in a team POV. I think he's a fantastic player, that would be competing for Balon d'Or a decade ago, but not now because of the way the sport's changed in the last five years. But more than a fantastic player, that's one of the most beautiful human beings I've see in the world of football and he let it show. So when I say Oscar works better, when I say Mata exposes(d) us, when I say he can only compete and give stats such as last season if the whole system is built around him, that's me analyzing coldly what's best for the team and I tend to be cold a lot of times. But he has my respect, my love and my admiration for his skills as a player, but even more as a person. I really think he deserved more than a United in shambles managed by a guy that is completely clueless. It has nothing to do with them being our rivals. Actually in a cold perspective it's better to sell him to a manager like Moyes who doesn't know what to do with him, rather than a manager - even from another league - that could use him as a lethal weapon against us. Not sure if I could express it, but I think he's going to have less impact at United - because the team is currently still weak and because they have a dinosaur managing it - than he would have in other teams around Europe that have better structure to make him shine. That's why I think he deserved better. Does it leave a bitter taste in my mouth to know he's going to a club I absolutely hate? Yes, it does and if I was more attached to him in a personal level, I would be disgusted as many of you are. But business wise and being very cold about it, we sold him to the one team I think won't make us regret this decision and I won't be surprised if when both Rooney and Robin are back if he won't be deployed in the wing again. I'm not sure Moyes will be stupid enough to move the one player that assured they're where they are right now and not even worse. Rooney's been saving United ass from the beginning and even if Moyes wants to move him around, I think the powerful people inside the club - including Fergie - will stop him from doing it. The first name to play behind the striker in United right should be Rooney (if he isn't the striker himself) and that may detract Mata's chances even more. Another reason for me to think he deserved better.

don't know what you meant with the PS part, but the talent part, I agree with you. When I said it's all one thing and the other, I was trying to tell them apart. Messi also works hard - not just as hard as Cris and Cris is also talent, just not as much as Messi imo. There's no way a player without any talent can work hard, thousand hours after training and become as good as Cris. Talent is definitely required, the same way I'm sure Messi works hard, just not as much extra time as Cris does.