The only place to be

It's balanced out by the amount of love for players like Hazard, Azpi, JT, Cahill, Matic, Willian, Oscar (earlier in the season), Schurrle recently.... It's just the way our supporters are. If you're performing then you get love and if you're not then you get stick. Ramires will never get the type of stick that Mikel does because he always puts in a shift. His criticisms are based on his intelligence and his skill with the ball. Luiz and Mikel frustrate more than any other players because they have all the technical and physical skills you need but lack the mental side, whatever you want to call it. Character? Now Torres....here is a tragic figure. Whatever he had that made him one of the best strikers this league has ever seen, disappeared. Maybe he was robbed through injury, maybe it's just the worst psychological blow that I can remember a sportsman suffering except for maybe Tiger Woods post-affairs. But I will simply never understand the level of hate directed at him by certain members on here, and that's why he'll get defended more than most would (going off on a tangent here but I feel it needs to be said). Maybe we're giving him a longer leash because of how much he cost and who we signed him from, maybe it's just denial. But I simply can't look at Torres decline as a footballer without thinking it's one of the great tragedies of recent sporting times. I've lost patience with the situation before, but I honestly don't think it's his fault to the extent that I wish to continually pummel the guy. The same goes for Eto'o. I don't hate the guy because he's not the pacy, powerful striker he once was. He's older now (we'll stick to him being 32) so of course he's slower. I dislike the fact he went to Russia for a paycheque and the fact we signed him, but he seems to put everything into his performances and that's all you can ask for. Like I said it's not a response to you Choulo but at some point certain people need to lay off Torres. We all know he isn't a top striker anymore, and he probably knows it better than anyone so why keep giving him the dogs' abuse?

He's about the same age as Jon Flanaghan. And Phil Jones. And Chris Smalling. And John Stones. And Micah Richards and Nastasic. He's just been unlucky that he couldn't get a chance earlier in the season and that Jose puts such an emphasis on defensive stability that even Luiz and Cole can't get a look in. Honestly I think this season was all about building a stable foundation and once that's done you can start to blood younger players.

I kinda feel sorry for the guy because he was injured when the team was in flux and players who weren't in Mourinho's initial plans like Cahill and Azpi got a chance to establish themselves, but in reality it was always going to be a stretch for him. He'll be 21 before the season is out and he needs to start making those moves to kickstart his career....Maybe it is right for him to go, hopefully on loan to an English side but if not out permanently. He won't be homegrown like Ake and he isn't English (it counts) like Chalobah. If Ivanovic does leave, which is unlikely, then maybe he's got a shot as that right-back/centre-back hybrid. Sounds pissed though.

Urgh.....in theory, he should definitely be in the conversation but I still have the same reservations over him that I have over Luiz when it comes to the mental side of the game. But if Jose thinks he can mentor/father him then I'd be behind such a move. He's older, he's engaged and he's just recently acknowledged paternity of a young daughter (maybe not as quickly as he should have but it's a start). At some point the penny has to drop that he's got these tremendous gifts and with a little maturity he could be one of the best players in the world. I just want to see him smile a bit and lose that chip off his shoulder. Look at someone like Eden who actually seems to enjoy playing football. He'll be 24 at the start of next season and if he were to join us we would be his fourth top European club...not many players get to bounce around these big teams for an entire career. Off the top of my head I can think of only Ibrahimovich and Anelka and the latter is now plying his trade in West Brom. If he wants to play for us then he has to give everything to Mourinho....but Jose and the club can give him a place to belong for the next 7 years. As a player it probably goes without saying that he'd be perfect for us IF he applied himself. Strong, skilful, good with his back to goal, can break with speed, can link up with wide players and can even play wide himself. But there's a reason he'd be available for what would in all likelihood be a fair price.

Turning it into a race/nationality thing again are we? Well I think Ramires is technically poor and David Luiz is weak mentally (nothing else explains how such a fine physical and technically specimen simply can't put all those tools together and be one of the best in the world), but I've said on numerous occasions that Oscar has been one of our best players. That must hurt the old brain-box when you can't just make derisory implications about other posters. It's amazing that you place such stock in Barcelona's view of defenders (they've gotten by with playing Javier Mascherano, one of the better DMs around, in defence for the last couple of years and even played Yaya Toure there for a time...some teams don't need quality defenders) but don't seem to have much time for Jose Mourinho's view....he's the Chelsea manager FYI. And the amount of burying of heads in the sand done by Luiz's little fanclub is absolutely baffling....but look at you using pejoratives again like the poster every decent member of this forum knows you to be. If you swear hand on heart that you don't have a worry in your head when Luiz is named on the team sheet then that's fine.....but you're in the minority if my experiences of supporting Chelsea are anything to go by. In theory (which is where I think fans like you only assess David Luiz....and maybe FIFA 14 because he's tremendous on there) David Luiz is the best defender in the world. HE HAS EVERYTHING......except the mental side of the game and that is something that a certain type of immature supporter completely overlooks. The mental side of the game is the most important aspect of any sportsman. I have yet to be convinced by anyone that a mental midget can reach the highest echelons of any sport, regardless of innate talent and physical superiority. That top two inches can make or break whatever else that player has and it needs to be there on a consistent basis. Those are the things that top coaches like Mourinho respect, and I don't understand how anyone who professes to be a Chelsea supporter and has watched the likes of Drogba, Terry and Lampard drag this team to wins through sheer guts and mental strength and the will to win can fail to understand that.

Now we've got Matic as a stable presence in midfield then we can probably look to blood young players, much like we were with Van Ginkel. It's the new reality and there's no reason why Nat shouldn't get minutes next year (if he stays) with the possible departures of Mikel and Luiz. He only signed a new five year contract five months ago.

Think he's got a great chance based on his skill, physical strength (seems to have a bit more later on in games this season) and his attitude.

Huh?? No. I think it was catastrophic defending. So Cahill's valuation is a 'fact' is it then Rafa? If it's a fact you wouldn't mind telling me what his valuation is right now then. Well, you're half right. We won because we were lucky. Simple as that. Fuck me, Cahill only played 3 fucking times under AVB and they never played together. You can throw Ivanovic, Bosingwa, Luiz and even Cole into that category of 'not performing under AVB'. Your commitment to Luiz is laudable but if you want to keep doing it in future you may need to learn French or Spanish. Oh, and he might be valuable to Barca and their world class manager but he's not that valuable to Jose Mourinho, and that's all that matters. Too much time spent talking about a sub. Oh, and nice Instagram account Dave - that's what's held JT back from being a great defender.

A failure to track a runner is a mistake. Doing it in crunch situations like the 87th minute is a massive mistake. It was a very simple run by a very average player. We're talking about Victor fucking Anichebe here We don't need to sell him, and Barcelona need a defender. If you hadn't noticed there aren't many world class defenders available so even certain players who can't get in the first team are fairly expensive - same went for Mata. Price isn't dependent solely on the quality of the player in question (a basic error you keep on making) but on the supply of similar players. Another ridiculous point that you keep on making and should probably stop. No offers have been made for John Terry. No offers have been reported for Messi in the last couple of years either. Do you know why? Because the club who owns the player has to be a willing seller. We wouldn't sell Cahill for a fee that wasn't extortionate but we would sell Luiz. Understand? I think he'll be a fine player for Barca....and I'd love to see him in the starting line-up against us because I wouldn't put it past him to fuck up under pressure. I've also not seen anyone here say Cahill and Terry were the best CB pairing in Europe - am I misremembering or are you lying? Either way they're the best pairing in this league and they're the best pairing in our club....long may they continue. :blue scalf: :blue scalf:

If you want to bring up a mistake made by another defender in response to ones made by Luiz then I'm happy to do that. Of course it's a little easier for me, I mean Luiz made two in the game before that against Newcastle letting De Jong get away from in the box and also playing Newcastle onside. But if you think he should leave because those nasty commentators keep picking on him then that's fine. I want him to leave to but that's because he's not a good enough defender to represent Chelsea Football Club. But what an Instagram account. Exactly. If he was, he'd be playing for us week in and week out regardless of Cahill's form. But if anyone disagrees then that's fine....they can also have a guess at how many more times Luiz will play CB in a Chelsea shirt. I'll set the over/under at 2.5 games.

Well his failure to track Anichebe did cost us two points against West Brom. If he'd actually marked him then he probably wouldn't have scored and we'd probably have two more points....but yeah, what's two points matter?? Here's the thing about Luiz....Mourinho simply doesn't trust him. He avoids playing him as a defender because he's already had to drop him twice this season and I seem to recall pointing out a couple of weeks back that in the space of about 3 months he was chosen as a CB only a couple of times. In theory he's a great defender, but he's just not one for us. Great hair though.

He's a left back, but he's not Luke Shaw so fuck him. And he's got a ponytail.

But he is a back-up, and not a very dependable one at that as the matches against Newcastle and West Brom showed. There's a reason he has barely played as a centre-back in the last four months. Good. Get PSG and Bayern involved too and that's a nice little bidding war to get that price up. Shaw Zouma Terry Cahill Ivanovic Azpilicueta Then you've got Kalas, Ake and possibly Chalobah and Omeruo. Of course if we could get someone like Varane then we should but we could quite conceivably go into next season with the same back four we have used for much of this season integrating Shaw and Zouma slowly.

So apparently he's pissed off because he didn't play against Barca despite getting MOTM awards in games leading up to it? First things first, I assume he's talking about the 2004-05 season because he hardly played the next year. Ok, here's everything you need to know about Glen Johnson. Ignore the fact that we won the tie when we were the underdog the real tragedy is that poor Glen Johnson didn't get to play. You selfish prick. That's why Mourinho never liked you. Secondly, I've had a quick google of our lineups in the league games leading up to both ties (played February 23rd and March 8th) and the only game he seems involved in is Spurs away on 15th January. He came off the bench in the League Cup final on 27/2. He did start in two FA Cup games (Birmingham 30/1 and Newcastle 20/2) but so did Cudicini, Smertin and Jarosik in what was very much a second-string side. I'm not calling him a liar because I might be wrong in my research but unless he thinks FA Cup games (one of which we lost) are going to lead to a Champions League start when you haven't been a regular in the league games then I'm not entirely sure what he's on about.

No, it's fucking ridiculous. It won't happen. I've seen Rodriguez play and he's a good player. I've seen Shaw too and I've watched him progress at amazing pace. He will be a better player than Rodriguez in my view and he's got all those intangibles. You have your view, I have mine. Fortunately it would appear the club agrees with me.

Buying both is ridiculous. It's not an option. It won't happen. Look, I've said my bit. I look at Shaw and based on my experiences of seeing left-backs come and go I think he's definitely one for the future. You make it sound like Rodriguez is already an elite player and he's quite simply not. His price, whatever it is, is based on potential almost as much as Shaw's. In fact their prices are probably the same EXCEPT there's an English tax levied on Shaw and that's just one of those things. I'd be delighted seeing him here and gutted seeing him anywhere else and whilst I'm sure you think it's 'nice' that he's English and it's quaint that we all want to see a young, exciting English talent in our team, for me it's one of the great pleasures of supporting a club. To see a young guy who is from a Chelsea stronghold, who loves this club get a chance to play for it....well that's something most supporters would be clamouring for. He can play at Premier League level....can Rodriguez? Maybe he's just another player at a mid-table German club who looks good in the Bundesliga, like De Bruyne.

It's not just potential. He's already a very good player who will hopefully continue his progress in our team. Look, I've put why I think we should sign Shaw and you obviously have concerns over the price. If he actually gives us 10-12 years of service then the price is actually not that bad and we get another English player in the squad. He's exactly the type of talent we should be looking to get if we can, he comes from good stock and he's a proper Chelsea lad. I honestly don't know how anyone could seriously want Rodriguez over him but that's up to them. And the reason Azpi is playing at left-back is because Cole has been poor and Azpi took his chance well.

He's versatile, but as a CB he's simply not been that great this season. Dropped twice, lacklustre displays and the emergence of Cahill and Terry as the best partnership in the league mean that a pricey back-up who you can't rely on simply might not be worth turning down the possible offers.

And what did Real Madrid win last year? Underestimating the importance of positions because games are won in the middle of the park (when they can also be lost on the flanks) is ridiculous in my view. It's when you get stability in those positions that you get really good teams, and in Shaw and Azpi we'd be set for a decade. Now you might think Rodriguez is better, and at this point in time he may well be. But Shaw has come on in leaps and bounds over the last couple of years to the point where he's made the national squad by the age of 18. I don't see any reason why that shouldn't continue, especially with his work ethic. Physically he's way beyond his years and his technique is good too. But it comes back to who he is that's key for me. I honestly don't care if he's a bit behind a guy who is 3 years older and who has never played in the Premier League before. Luke Shaw supports Chelsea and he's English, and that actually matters. It matters to the point where I'd be happy for the club to pay a premium for him. As for my age, well I'm old enough to have seen enough Darren Barnards, Anthony Barness's, Jon Harley's, Terry Phelans, Graeme Le Sauxs and Ashley Coles for me to look at Luke Shaw and think he's got everything it takes to be a Chelsea and England legend if he continues as he has done. He is the one guy I'd be gutted to see go to another English club.

Nope. What had Rodriguez done at the age of 18? Oh right, fuck all. He was still playing in Switzerland at the same age Shaw is playing in a proper league. I can't make that argument, but that's just because I don't believe it. You're welcome to. He should be ahead of Cole and maybe even Baines. That's not bad for a player of only 18 and despite England being poor at the moment getting where he has so quickly is not to be sniffed at. We need homegrown players. It's as simple as that and we need a left-back. He's proven himself in the league already and he's only going to get better which is why every top club is looking at him. I can't even think where to begin answering this without it sounding patronising and like I'm explaining the game of football to someone unfamiliar with it. The game is more complex than looking at action areas on a graph. For Hazard to work his magic he needs runners and he needs space, space created by players making the pitch bigger..... I can't be bothered. This post bought to you by whoscored.com.

You're kidding right? How much more space does Hazard get when there's a left-back to provide width and take a defender away from him? In an FFP world a young guy actually makes sense because the cost can be amortised over a longer period.

It's not just potential though. He's already performing at a good level week in and week out in the Premier League. You're comparing him with a guy who is three years older and making these claims about him being undisputedly better, but that's just your opinion. Shaw is the second youngest player to reach 50 PL appearances which is a remarkable achievement and he's doing well in a team who have some glaring deficiencies. Bertrand got called up at the age of 22. Shaw is four years younger. He's also English and a Chelsea supporter. That counts for something in my book.

£20 million for Shaw is probably the starting point. If he comes then we don't need another left-back in my opinion, especially not another young guy who is probably at the same level and needs the same number of games.

So we spend £45 million-odd on left-backs who are pretty much the same age?

He plays a back-up role maybe alongside Torres, although I wouldn't be totally surprised if he was sold. Ba is gone and Eto'o's contract is up too.