The only place to be

I'm not asking him to do it all, I'm simply pointing out that having a striker who does his job can change close results into victories. It's amazing how much Torres impinges on those around him's ability to do their jobs. I think he can be an important player in our last 18 league games this season.

We played well last night. Two sloppy mistakes and a shit striker were the reasons we lost. Personally I would only change Ba for Torres and Ramires for someone else (I expect Lampard).

There isn't a 'truth' There's your opinion and that's what you posted.

I agree. No, he's not.

You forgot to post any words of wisdom. Ba has played one game, the team looked far better with him. All the stats in recent games against QPR and Swansea point to a team without a cutting edge - having Torres up-front is the definition of lacking a cutting edge. The team will get better when Ba starts.

That is massively unfair on the guy.

The reaction to Luiz doing it is 'For fucks sake, not again'. Branislav gets a bit less shit because he's dependable, reliable and a good servant to the club. Luiz may have all these physical tools to make him better but he has mistakes in his locker. It comes down to what you personally want in a defender.

Why are people comparing Luiz with Ivanovic? I like David Luiz but he's nowhere near as stress-free to watch in defence as Luiz. I trust Branislav even after last night because they were uncharacteristic. When I watch Luiz play, I enjoy him but I know he's going to have the odd brain-fart.

Second game where we've lost because of his selection, although last night wasn't as painful as the QPR game. Let's be honest, we outplayed a very decent Swansea team and lost due to two uncharacteristic mistakes from a usually dependable player and having Torres up-front. As soon as Ba came on we looked ten times more dangerous. That suggests we're good enough with the right team to beat most other teams in the Premier League which should hopefully see us make top-four, although it's going to be close. The cups are almost certainly gone though which should undermine his case to stay on past the summer. At the moment there are no obvious candidates to take his place so I can't see anything changing until June.

He's not a winger. The one thing I loved about him before he joined us is that he plays with his head up - when he's on the wing he's always looking down at the ball because it's not his natural position. He should've been moved to Ramires position because we had so much possession and territory but nothing coming from there. If we carry on as we are we might as well sell him because we're ruining him.

Is it true that other teams aren't putting in bids for Torres because they're worried you'll follow him to their team?

He made two uncharacteristic mistakes. I personally think he's been one of our most important players all season and the people criticising him are wrong. He gives his all for the cause and they were simply 'un-Ivanovic' slip-ups, but I'm trying to think of the last time he had a rest.

Think he becomes the odd man out in the summer. Doesn't fit as the more defensive midfielder (Romeu, Mikel, Luiz, possibly Fellaini) and doesn't have the ball skills to be the playmaker. Great engine, lovely guy, should be able to flog him for £13million-ish.

Having had a chance to reflect on the game, I'm actually finding bright spots to pick up on. Yes it was a bad result, but the two goals we conceded came from mistakes from a player who doesn't usually make them. That's just the way it goes sometimes. They weren't a result of the system, they weren't even a result of Swansea pressure. They were individual errors that won't happen in the next 100 games. It's also refreshing to point out that it was only the Coca Cola Cup. We shouldn't be taking this cup seriously in the first place, but we did so what did we learn? Torres is shit. Sounds obvious, but he makes our team so much worse that it's actually becoming funny. We saw the improvement with Ba on Saturday and we saw it tonight in the last 10 minutes. He had four half-chances that he created through sheer force of will that Torres wouldn't ever have got near. When the ball flashed across the box in the second half, Torres was stuck behind Ivanovic - Ba would have at least been in the right place. All this suggests to me that with Ba in the team, we're actually not that bad. Now we're almost certainly not going to win the Europa League with Torres in the team, but we will have Ba in the league games. I think we're going to have to look at losing Ramires in the summer too. If Luiz or Mikel (or whoever) plays that DM role, I don't know what Rami adds to the team. Great engine but not brilliant on the ball, no penetration, no incisiveness. Luiz had a good game, but he needs to have a game at DM against a good team who put pressure on him rather than sitting back like Villa, QPR and Swansea did for large parts.

Benat's is about 79% this season too. Capoue's is 81%. You're not taking into account the position he's playing in and what he's asked to do. Fouls come with the territory. In fact his disciplinary record this season is pretty good. As for Mikel not being mistake prone, Juventus and Liverpool come to mind straight away. You and I just disagree over what would be just for Chelsea and you rely way too much on stats in my opinion. I also think you misrepresent a lot of things to suit your agenda. And that'll have to be my last say on the matter as I have to get off to the game.

Why would Chelsea not secure any player with potential value to a long-term contract?

They offer different things in that role, like Mikel and Lampard or Luiz and Lampard. Modric would be a good option if we went with Mikel, but that doesn't seem to be the plan if we're continuing our pursuit of Fellaini. I have no problem with people questioning whether he would fit in. It's simply not being aware of where he would probably fit in that draws my ire somewhat. I apologise if you thought I was rude but I feel like I'm repeating the same points over and over.

I think you're completely wrong about what his best position is. His passing is fine, especially for someone who plays in an advanced position and lays the ball off a lot either with his head or with a lot of pressure on him. He's no more mistake prone than Mikel is. In fact I don't think he's made enough mistakes to be called mistake prone. Defensive midfielders foul. Makelele fouled a lot. Wisey fouled a lot. Fellaini's disciplinary record is not any different from other players in his position. You're simply regurgitating common misconceptions about him.

Busquets would be at least £30 million, Makelele cost about £17 million when he was 30. It's amazing that a midfielder who helped us finish 6th and produced 'that performance' against Juventus in this year's Champions League is 'good enough for me'. He ain't good enough for me. I've spent the last 15 years watching players like Wisey, Deschamps and Makelele play for my club. Mikel isn't fit to lick their boots. It's an impressive feat to take an article that praises a young player (because he was young) for finally coming of age and dominating top opposition, and try and twist some words to fit your agenda. It's a reference to the fact that they're completely different players who do completely different things. Suggesting we could buy Modric is like suggesting we could buy a keeper. Or 30 million Mars bars. Or the world's biggest, shiniest gold dildo. It's got fuck all to do with the conversation. :banghead: :banghead: Dear mods, I fear I might be in serious danger of breaking this particular emoticon.

Fellaini did not look anything like a £15m player against Manchester City. He looked worth more as the young giant's transformation continued, helped by finally being played in the position Moyes bought him for. He ruled Goodison Park from his favoured midfield anchor role on Saturday, giving a near flawless display that he capped with a Zinedine Zidane-style dragback that left Craig Bellamy chasing thin air and was afforded the accolade of a spontaneous and deafening standing ovation. Bellamy was gracious enough to congratulate Fellaini on embarrassing him as the Belgianflourished once more away from the spot behind the striker that he occupied with mixed results last season. Fellaini was assured in possession, instrumental at seeing and dealing with any City danger and posed a goal threat, particularly in the air as shown by one late header that was clawed on to the woodwork by Shay Given. Gone was the player who could at times look a lost and lonely soul in games, replaced by a confident and dominating presence that helped Everton give City a going over that is not reflected in the scoreline. http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/philmcnulty/2010/01/david_moyes_demonstrated_a_sur.html Here's the problem I'm finding with a lot of the discussion on Fellaini - nobody seems to have a fucking clue about him before 2012 (and I'm being generous here. I honestly think some people don't have a fucking clue about him besides what they saw last night on FIFA). Some people don't realise we've had a long association with this guy, that we've been scouting him for a long time and that we were in for him 5 years ago. Everton beat us to the punch. We fucked up. We now need a quality DM. The discussion about Mikel after over 200 games suggests there's something wrong. I don't remember having the same discussion about Makelele so it's got fuck all to do with some astute minds in the game seeing something the others don't. Fellaini has shown an ability to produce top quality performances over a consistent period in the anchor role. The problem is that it was a couple of years ago and a 14 year old hasn't cobbled together clips of it and added some fucking Coldplay to it so how on Earth are people supposed to have knowledge of it?? Capoue has youtube montages flowing out of every orifice, each more sparkly than the last so clearly he's the player we need.

Romeu can't walk at the moment. Granted that wouldn't stop him being much worse than Mikel, but still I think he'd probably have some long-term problems if we played him in the next 6 months. Mikel simply isn't good enough. Never has been, never will be. And then there's unproven flavour of the month number one, all aboard the shiny bandwagon number 2.... Lampard isn't a deep lying playmaker. He's deep lying but he doesn't make enough plays. It's why we tried to replace him with Modric. Unfortunately we couldn't get him so we went for Oscar instead. Plus we have McEachran and De Bruyne. I'd rather try one of them in that role first, and admit we fucked up by not signing Fellaini 5 years ago. He's one of very few players who has the ability to do what he does. He's also done it in the Premier League too and buying him has the added benefit of weakening a rival.

You're saying that Oscar doesn't have a 'good defensive workrate/awareness'? That would be the guy who man-marked arguably the greatest playmaker in European football out of a game in his first start? As for Mikel, I think he's better than Mikel. I think he's better in the air, I think he's better defensively, I think he works harder, I think he has a much better attitude to the game and I think he has a bit of aggression/steel that's lacking from Mikel's game. I also think he offers a goal threat which is a nice bonus. You don't simply forget how to play a position just because you don't play it for a while. He's said he sees himself playing as a DM and I agree. I think we were slow off the mark to sign him from Liege despite De Visser being ahead of the curve when it came to the rise of young Belgian footballers, and we're paying the price now. We didn't sign him in 2008 because the price was a little too high for us and we had changed formations slightly under Scolari. Instead we bough Deco and Bosingwa. It's fair to say that us missing out on Fellaini was one of a number of daft moves that year. I fail to see how moving him to a position where he could be effective for us would be stupid. Putting him in goal I can understand being silly. Putting a player who was outstanding in the DM role back in the DM role after a brief sojourn forwards seems like a savvy move.

When we first became interested in Fellaini, it was as a defensive midfielder. At Everton, he started in that role and did well but they've moved him forward because it's what works best for them. We actually need a DM. Why do people think we would be interested in him for any position other than Defensive Midfield? Suggesting we could get Modric for a similar price is like saying we could get Jack Butland for a third of the price.

I want a top four finish and for Benitez to leave. That's all. The Coca Cola Cup is one of those things it's nice to win if you're on the way to winning other things. I prefer to think of it as the cup you use to blood youngsters, and seeing up play some of our most important players for up to 120 minutes against United's reserve teams was one of the most absurd moments I've ever seen at the Bridge. The 1-1 draw to Swansea a few days later was the punchline to that particular joke.

I see him as the new DM. That's what we saw him as when we were first interested (both at Liege and Everton) and that's where we have a need now. If we're actually looking to use him as an attacking midfielder then the club are exhibiting levels of daftness that I didn't think they were capable of. He could be our Busquets/Khedira depending on what formation we use going forward.