The only place to be

The way I see it is that he got a 7 match ban in Holland for the same thing, didn't learn and did it again. When you throw in his poor record (the racism ban in particular) then I really don't know what the fuss is. For me 7 games was the absolute minimum, plus 3 for being a repeat offender. If they appeal this then they should add on at least 1 more game to his ban but I feel this will be reduced to 7-8 games.

Lads, get some popcorn. http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=305346.0 And just to state the obvious, that's his season over plus the first SIX games of next season.

TEN GAMES Have it you cunt!! http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22278258

I honestly think the idea of us using Courtois or De Bruyne as bait is reporters putting 2+2 together and getting a lemon. Like someone said earlier, if we trigger the release fee then they can't ask for Courtois - they could apply a monetary value to the year-long loan spell (Around €5 million at a guess) and then come back with an offer, but we're not obliged to countenance it. What I think is important to this deal is Torres. I'm not a fan of getting Falcao, but I'm even less of a fan of keeping Torres around next season and I've thought for a long time that Atletico is his only real option out of here. We can pray for a Russian oligarch to take him off our hands but that's unlikely, especially with his wages demands. Maybe his marketability sways them (he's still one of our top shirt sellers despite being shit for two years) but I think Madrid holds mutual attraction for the two parties. They might get the hometown discount, where the lure of sun and sangrias entices him to lower his wage demands or backload his contract with performance incentives. He's still a hero there and maybe he can do better in the Spanish league - he still scored on the biggest stage last year at the Nou Camp. What I think is fairly certain at this point is nothing is certain about this deal - like everything about this club I think it's tied up in where we finish the season. Falcao isn't a young man so every season counts. Until we know our situation next season, everything is speculation.

Taking off my Chelsea hat for a moment, a move to Dortmund makes perfect sense for De Bruyne. He doesn't seem to be in our immediate plans, Dortmund need a replacement for Gotze and the player gets to play in a strong team under one of the best coaches around currently when it comes to developing players. However I think we need to be selfish here. Leverkusen is still a very good team and with Dortmund seemingly losing key players, they may have a good shot at the league next season (although Bayern are clear favourites). Clearly we've seen something in Schurrle and getting him whilst retaining De Bruyne's long-term services seems a fantastic use of our resources. De Bruyne is a fantastic player and I'm usually the first to call for young players to be thrown into the team, but I actually think that this might be the best way. I really want to see Oscar given time in a deep-lying playmaker role whilst Mata is very much our number 10. That leaves Schurrle, Moses, Hazard and possibly Piazon on the wings although as I type this I realise just how much we could do we De Bruyne as another rotation option for all three positions....Hmmm..... It's frustrating that the guy who is probably the most ready for the first-team is also key to us making other signings. Looking on the bright side, whatever happens the club should be commended for getting a young talent early and cheap. The worst case scenario is that we sell him to Dortmund and TRIPLE our money - this is very much a first-world problem as far as our club goes. What I think is most likely is that next summer we bring in a guy with a season's more Champions League experience, a season of chasing the title in a competitive league, coming off a World Cup into a squad with a season's stability under a new manager. That's not too shabby.

Who did you want to be like? Maradona? Because you sound like you're on drugs. There were two footballers I wanted to be like. Andy Goram and Andy Goram.

Are you serious?

I was wrong about Marin. I apologise. I made a mistake. Torres had a good game I thought. Ake was impressive and did more than Mikel in trying to defend the Rubin second goal when Mikel couldn't be bothered to mark his man. Benayoun and Azpi were okay. Mikel's performance was disgraceful though and one of the laziest, most pathetic I've seen in many years of supporting this club.

Really? Marin was terrible, and needs selling. Who are the other 4? People making one sentence statements and being able to actually have a proper discussion. Oh, there you are.

And this is the key point. Teams defend TOGETHER and our double pivot has been weak for most of the season. But some people are blind to any criticism of certain players when the priority should be what makes the team better.

Sorry, are you saying he didn't have attitude problems when he joined the club? This is you all over - talk shit and then wander off when people get into specifics. Put me on ignore and I'll do the same for you.

The Rubin Kazan game...ya know, the Europa League one that he made the comments before.

Cech got involved too, but if you're happy to say that Mikel is a leader at Chelsea then you're getting the season you deserve. Me, I think we're better than that and fortunately we seem to have players come through who are born leaders. Anyone who has played team sports knows what a leader is and Mikel ain't. He never was (attitude problems when he first came here) and sadly I don't think he ever will be. He's a boy with phenomenal physique and good technical skills.

Engouh of this cunt insulting and winding up Chelsea fans.

He still has to wear that shirt and represent us fans - isn't that a big enough honour? Did you see his performance in that match? He was an utter disgrace to this club.

I see Mata as a 'spine' figure because I think he's become someone who has stepped up in tough games and lifted the players around him. I also included him in the spine of the team because he plays in the centre and is a nailed-on starter, and if we're talking about Mourinho teams then he's like Ozil in that sense. I wouldn't call Mata meek, but he's one of those guys who is a leader in our team simply because of the example he sets. As for Mikel, I don't know if he was effectively talking to the ref but he went missing in the second-half (as did Ramires for the first 10 minutes). I don't rate him as a player and I don't rate him as a leader but I think you need to learn to read because I specifically compared him to the people who have played in HIS POSITION. That position requires a leadership and a sense of responsibility that he simply doesn't exhibit on a consistent basis. You go to some extraordinary lengths to disagree with me on things but at least try and understand what I'm saying.

It is amazing to think isn't it. One is a man, a leader in our team and someone we can be proud of. The other is Mikel.

Agreed. I criticised him earlier in the season, but he's become such an important player in our team and along with Mata he's one of the players that we've bought in recent years who not only represents this club well, but also gets this club. I like how he's adapted his game too. Early on he'd try and play his way out of trouble and he'd get caught out a few times so clearly someone at the club told him to just clear it. Problem is he went a little overboard and just hoofed the ball into touch every time. Now he seems to know the English game well enough to judge when he has time and when he doesn't. He's not perfect but he has become someone we've started to be able to rely on and he's become one of those players who elevates the performance of those around him. He's a leader in the team and we sorely need those at the moment.

I agree. Drogba said in an interview that when Mourinho put up his team selection, he'd fill in CECH - TERRY - MAKELELE - LAMPARD - DROGBA and say 'this is the spine', and then he'd put in the Riccys, Arjens and Tiagos. We don't have that spine anymore. We don't have those leaders anymore, but we're getting there. We have Cech and Mata, and maybe even Luiz but there's a real lack of leaders which isn't surprising because we're a young team. But this is where my frustration with Mikel arises from. How is it possible that a guy who has played so many games, over so many years and won so many trophies not grown into a leader in our team? When we talk about captains, does anyone ever raise his name? Think of the other people who have played that position - Makelele, Essien, Ballack, Wisey, Petit, Deschamps, Spackman..... They were all MEN. We need MEN. We need leaders. When you look at the team now, I don't think you see those guys and it's why we've thrown away leads.

Well I disagree. He's deceptively strong and tenacious and the players that we're looking at (Modric, Moutinho etc.) aren't much different in terms of strength. Yes. I have faith in this squad and in this club.

Wait.....so asking you if you watched a match that you're giving an opinion of is 'unfair'?? I asked you because I wasn't sure if you watched the match. As for logic, we're talking about football. Logic has it's place but there's no definitive measure of whether a player is good enough (sorry to all those people who put so much faith in stats). I have faith in my opinion and I'm quite happy to back-up my points. I'm also man enough to admit when I'm wrong. Luiz didn't have a horrible game. He probably should've done better with the Suarez goal but I don't think you're prepared to countenance the possibility of the midfield having a detrimental effect on our team's performance. I've criticised Ramires, Mikel and Lamps for poor performances there and in every game this season that we've lost, it's been a factor. Well done for watching the game twice though. The problem is your definition of a bad game for Mikel is seemingly worlds away from what most Chelsea fans think. I honestly think you should stop talking about him because the crap you spout about him actually makes him a more loathsome character. Mikel wouldn't be nearly such an annoyance if he didn't have people defending him from criticism. It's like when backstreet defends Torres or Rupert defends Rafa - it's unnecessary and contrarian for the sake of it.

Again I completely disagree and think that you're looking at his size, rather than what he does in matches. How many times has he done that thing where he uses his body to shield players who are about 3 yards away from the ball? He's intelligent enough to position his body between opposition players and the ball. Falling to the ground is fine if he gets free kicks too - I really think you're overstating a problem that doesn't exist in the first place. What I've wanted from the start is for him to be given a fair shot at the shirt in pre-season. That's purely because I think he'll prove himself better than Mikel in a fair fight. Yes, with rotation. I think there's a question mark over Terry and that we should be looking for a replacement for him, but Cole is still good enough and Lukaku seems to be going from strength to strength. Yep. That's not many more than I'd expect from this season - imagine if we'd beat QPR and held onto a few more winning scores. This team is not far away from being very good.

He doesn't go under the radar. Chelsea supporters know exactly what they're looking at so the 'you're too stupid to understand what Mikel is' argument really doesn't need another airing. And you're also misremembering the Juve incident. He stood around having given the ball away and yes JT stepped up, but that was all the result of Mikel's slack passing and laziness in defending. Trying to defend that incident really is a lost cause.