The only place to be

I think it's completely irrelevant. Like I said, there's plenty of footballing reasons to object to Mikel without bringing Emenalo into it.

Yep. United coming out (well not actually coming out with quotes) and changing their position from 'he's not for sale' to 'he's not for sale' should see this thread closed.

Great point....it's inevitable that in time we'll sign the whole Nigerian team.

I don't like Mikel but I can't help but think there are far more worthwhile things to discuss about him than the fact that a 25 year old player with a market value of roughly £10 million was given a 5 year contract.....by another Nigerian no less. To me, and I'm going to be kind and say there's nothing more sinister to it, its complete bollocks.

Eto'o's game was based on pace and explosiveness. Is the 32 year old Eto'o who plays for Anzhi still the same player he was in 2011? Please, allay our fears and tell us he still has that same danger - or maybe we should be looking at putting him on the same speed training programme Torres has been on since 2011.

The Bundesliga has never been a nothing league and I don't know anyone who thought that. It's always been a top four league as long as I can remember. Nor am I questioning his motives, simply pointing out that at the age of 30 he decided to go into what some might describe semi-retirement.

And Eto'o's recent comments about Jose are just a coincidence? He's looking for a job, we're looking for a striker so of course his people will be leaking stories about us and him. Maybe there's some truth to them but I'm surprised at the response of some people. Rooney has been called over the hill and unfit - well here's a guy who seems to have lost his most potent weapon (no shame in that - age has an undefeated record).

It's a nothing league. That's why he was paid so much to go there, and it did roughly fuck-all for the profile of the league. Eto'o was a fantastic player whose pace and directness made him a danger - does he still have that pace? By most reports no. So we're looking at a player whose main weapon was his pace who may not have that anymore. Heck, why not have a black one to go alongside the white one we already have.

To be honest mate, it's not just Moyes. Can you honestly see United under Gill briefing to the press that we offered up David Luiz or Juan Mata in such a transparent manner? What about the pursuit of Fabregas when it turned out there was zero chance of it occurring? Moyes could very well be the next Fergie....but Fergie needed five years to really find his feet. You going to give Moyes five years? The pressure is on from day one and that's me being kind because your pre-season has been unimpressive and unsettled. The questions will start from the end of the Swansea game because that's the nature of modern football.

Eto'o was about 5 years younger than Drogba was when he left for China. Like I said, I'm not going to comment on his motives but I'm surprised that some people seem prepared to overlook the fact that at the age of 30 he decided to play in a nothing league. Lamps has won everything he could win - he still wants to nail down a place against Hull City on Saturday. I don't really have a problem with Eto'o and his decisions, but I'm surprised people want someone who decided two years ago that money was more important than glory and the challenge - but I'm sure he's changed now. His wanting to leave coinciding with the money train coming to a halt is just a coincidence.

The England game will likely prove his fitness, so it comes down to whether or not Moyes wants to generate a new storyline or not. He's already looked fairly weak and I could see him going down either path. The thing about that Swansea game is it is going to be a fucking tough game and I wouldn't be surprised to see Swansea win. That could have an effect on the Rooney transfer too, especially if he thinks they need reinforcements in. But my opinion is this. 1. The Glazers won't sell him without an official request, purely because it makes no financial sense to do so. 2. He won't be sold before the league game with us. They don't need the pictures of him in a Chelsea tracksuit, or the added distraction. 3. There's no reason for Rooney's camp to submit that request until it is necessary, which it isn't right now. So people just need to be patient. There's no rush to sign him and there's little chance of United selling before the game against us.

I'm surprised certain people are so happy for us to go for a player who decided two years ago to play in some Russian shithole simply because they would pay him an absurd amount of money. I'm not going to cast aspersions on a person's motives for doing something like that, but I'm sure others would. At the age of 30 he basically decided that he would take the money rather than play in a more competitive league for trophies and glory - now the trucks of money might not be pulling up to his drive with quite the same frequency as they might've he's decided that he wants to leave. Compare that with our other target who seems to want nothing more than to play football week-in and week-out at the highest level when he could simply stay at one of the biggest clubs in the world and earn a massive wage sitting on his arse and having Van Persie do the hard work.

He has no reason to hand in a transfer request right now. Why should he? His position is becoming increasingly untenable and it's unlikely he'll be sold before the league game with us, so it makes sense to hold off on giving up a rather large sum of money when there's no need to weaken his position. If he's left out of the first few games then it might be seen as justification for submitting an official request as well. Quite frankly at this point in time there's really no rush to do anything because his camp (and us) are in the stronger position.

You cited the United game - if you watch that game then for some reason that's frankly bemusing their midfield steps off for the final 30 minutes and invites pressure on themselves. You might say that the terrifying spectre of Mikel was what forced this but I think it had more to do with United's tactics just not working for them. Another possibility is that something else happened in the 52nd minute of that game that altered United's thinking. Maybe the weather shifted, or the Earth tilted a fraction of a degree off it's axis altering the fundamental rules of nature in a way we were more attuned to than United. Or maybe.,...just maybe we also brought on an attacking threat who actually made United's midfield think they should sit deeper because of the danger he posed. That could've been Mikel, or it could've been the other player we brought on at the same time. Some chap called Eden Hazard. I'm going to assume that's a veiled reference (although you do subtle about as well as a jackhammer) to Michael Emenalo giving him a contract because he's Nigerian...or maybe just because he's black. Bullshit. It's proper business practice to have any asset (which Mikel still is) tied down so we can't lose him on a free. The idea that Emenalo gave him a contract for any other reason is downright offensive to be quite honest. Maybe that's why he secured the signing of Lukaku though, because they're both black right? :banghead:

He looks a lot sharper in those highlights than he has done and a tad more svelte. His close control is truly exceptional and his vision is astounding at points, it's just the execution is off by a couple of centimetres which you'd expect in pre-season. Madrid clearly looked to stop him before he got going and he should've had a penalty, but it was encouraging to see him step up his performance. Seems to be on track for a storming start against Hull.

The third goal is exactly the type of goal you'd expect an inexperienced team to concede because no-one seems sure whose responsibility it is to pick him up. Van Ginkel probably should've tracked his run but you'd also want one of your central defenders to see that run coming and pick him up, or simply mark the space. Ultimately it's a brilliant run, well-timed and the person on the end of it is remarkably fast and also strong in the air, but it'll be replayed over and over again because these are the types of things new teams and new players need to learn.

Yeah, because I typed 'fans favourite' in that box. I think our academy does well up to the age of 18. I think our technical director and the coaches do well in finding suitable loans for most of our youngsters. What I think we struggle with is that transition into our first-team squad, but that's not a problem unique to us. The lack of stability at the top has added to that. It's hard for a manager to look at a 16 year old and help guide him when there's a good chance he won't be here when that player is 18. But when you look at how players like Ake performed when given a chance I think there's every reason to be positive about the future of our academy. Take last season's FA Youth Cup final. We lost but we stuck to playing football that translates better to first-team professional football, whilst Norwich essentially played for the win with rather negative tactics. That philosophy is important, so we have youngsters learning to play a certain way be it against Norwich or Barcelona. I enjoy the games too but of course you want these players making that step up. To me though, there's very few greater joys in football than watching a young guy make it after years of hard work.

Lamps isn't our Ronaldo, but he is a member of the squad and I'd rather have one more player available against Hull then a victory against Real Madrid in pre-season. If the result was all that mattered then we could've parked the bus like we did against Barca and played negatively, but this was about getting minutes on the pitch and finding out about how the team reacts against different opposition. We got knocked on our arse last night...and that's sometimes the best thing that can happen to a team. I'd take this type of lesson over an 8-1 win against Malaysia's best every day of the week. It's been a good pre-season.

I agree with Ake and Chalobah making it and for the same reasons. Loftus-Cheek looks like a thoroughbred as well though, more physically developed than Chalobah was at that age and he already plays with the patience of a pro. He's just got to keep his head because physically and technically he looks further along than any player I've seen at that age for a while. Josh....urgh. Bored of talking about him because it's always the same. He needs a very particular type of loan, with a very particular type of manager and a very particular type of team. You can't just throw him into any system because it won't work, but with a bit of luck then maybe he can make it.

Oh well at least we're not making absurd comparisons in a discussion about football. Pre-season is primarily about fitness (and yes systems etc). Lampard needs fitness. That's why he started. You're very welcome to disagree with what Jose Mourinho thinks is most important though. (as for death row there's no evidence to suggest is acts as a deterrent or cuts costs in the penal system - in fact it has been shown to increase costs.....so no I don't understand why people support death row either. I just assume they're morons).

This Madrid team beat Barcelona 3 times last season didn't they? They're further along in their development so losing to them in a pre-season game is no shame. As someone above said if we had United's pre-season then I'd be genuinely worried but this was just a reminder that whilst we have a lot of good things going on we're still not there yet - anyone who thought we would be before the Hull game was just setting themselves up for disappointment.

You're talking about a United academy that was streets ahead of us in the mid-90s so I'd again refer you to the earlier point that you just need to be patient. The club was overhauled almost completely when Roman took over, the academy and training facilities included. In recent years we've had great success in the FA Youth Cup and now we have players on the cusp of breaking through, although if you want to denigrate Chelsea players like Ryan Bertrand as 'Bench Warmer' than that's up to you. Personally I think he did alright when he started for us in the Champions League Final. Fuck off calling our academy crap OK. I'm trying to be polite but people like you who just want to moan and moan and moan really do test my patience. Maybe you should start writing letters to Points of View or your local newspaper and complain about potholes.....or just have a wank . Our academy's performance in tournaments is anything but crap. The results speak for themselves, but so do the performances of young men like Ruben Loftus-Cheek and Nat Chalobah. If you really want to compare us to Southampton then fine - they have lower expectations than us. When Oxlade-Chamberlain and Walcott broke through I believe they were in the Championship, although I commend them for sticking by Luke Shaw last season. Unfortunately the constant need for success and lack of patience from our fans (who also call our academy crap) means that players don't get the chance to learn in our team, and that's a real shame. Ultimately you people are part of the problem. You want all the reward without any of the discomfort and that's cancerous to any club looking to develop youngsters. We're about a decade into a new era for our club, so anyone who was expecting La Masia to spring up overnight (without a B team to help them) was going to be sorely disappointed.

If you understand the reasons (that it was pre-season, a time when players need to gain fitness) then how can you say it was a mistake? Some of the hysteria in this thread is funny, but then so was some of the hype in the other threads. Personally I think this pre-season has probably been as good as it could be for the new season. In the earlier games we saw new ideas being tried, new players being given time and a lot of good things but there's only so much you can learn from your victories. You need to be knocked down a couple of times to learn how to stop it happening in future and that's what we've had. Madrid put out their strongest side, a side that has been together for a while now (apart from Isco) and they looked better than us. There's no shame in that. This has probably come at the best time as there's still one more game to make a few alterations for before we go into the Hull game.

Someone I think said on a previous page that he isn't Baresi, and that's true. The problem is that there isn't exactly a Baresi out there who we could conceivably replace him with. If we go for someone like Mangala then we're buying potential, and if we stick with Luiz then we're doing so based on what Jose could do with him because he's by no means the finished article. I keep changing my mind with what we should do. If Barca come in with £40 million then it's got to be considered because Luiz isn't worth that much right now, but he could be. My current opinion is that it's probably better to go with the devil you know. Who knows? Next season Chalobah or Kalas could be in the first-team thinking and we can sell Luiz then.

Suarez is only about 15 months younger than Rooney isn't he?