robsblubot

That’s actually the main argument for starting the best players even if they are not 100% and then deal with the subs as needed. start with the most senior players to avoid situations like that. Then add youngsters for minutes and for mixing things up. no, nothing is a sure thing, but things are more likely to happen with the senior players since they already happened for them before. For ex, giroud is more likely to score at this level than a youngster who never scored at this level. Giroud would have been more likely to have scored that sitter. Tammy lowered his head and hit it. not great technique tbh. All these small decisions are likely to have influenced in the outcome and the final score line. No one wants a return of of the lack of youth development from mourinho era, but imo nobody forced frank to use so many youngsters in a single match, against a top club in their turf. Agree or disagree, that was a questionable decision, and one which did not quite work. another thing I can add is that it is a very common tale with overly young sides: they have the impetus, the work rate, sometimes even play well and look good, but lack the finishing touch and make too many small mistakes that hinder the team. And they are usually more likely to choke under stress, of say, having to chase a result after conceding early. Again, for obvious reasons... I mean it should be obvious.

I know this makes sense to most, but does not reflect reality. once a player reaches a status in world football, like it or not luiz has, you tell him he isn’t part of your plans as a manager and he is calling his agent. This will happen with any player! Yes guys like kante would not force an immediate move, but he’d do so in the next window. It is a very bold choice by frank and reckon, like others said, as much about locker room than anything else. Fair enough to him, but there will be a cost this season because of the situation we are in. Just think the club, and frank, overrated zouma.

Couldn’t agree more. That misplaced pass looked just as bad as the pk. United should have scored then and there. andreas was having a solid game while zouma looked bad from the first minute. His hands sticking out to make the easiest pass is very bakayoko like and a big 🚩

Poor against United like most in attack. Older players tend to take a little longer to regain their fitness, so I’d not rule out Pedro just yet. Same applies to azpi.

Exactly. If we go with a similar approach and starting line up, we will get thrashed again.

We have a fundamental diagreement regarding Tammy. I think he’s terrible awful footballer, so we have to agree to disagree. Heh I don’t much care how I sound. Listening to folks here and it seems we did not get thrashed by a shitty united side. There are games and games. Want to give Tammy minutes do it in a different match. Same for mount. This match was to fuck them up and make life difficult for them. barkley (who was playing left wing strangely enough) scored many goals in the pl which is more than both mount and Tammy ever did. Experience matters! And it is well paid for. It reflects prices of players who are already doing well in the PL vs coming from weaker leagues.

And Tammy played well in the PL when? same for mount... and the. He subs Ross Barkley who does have a lot of pl experience. sorry I honestly think Lampard fucked up big time.

Think pulisic has quite a bit more experience at top level than mount, as much as I like him. kante is a tough one: if he were sitting on the bench, I think he should have started otherwise he should not be sitting there. If he can’t play 90, sub him. regarding giroud and Tammy,’sorry that’s not debatable. They belong in completely different footballing tiers. Giroud was, along with hazard, our best player in the last cup win. So, starting Tammy made no sense to me. And his poor performance was very predictable. no need to start a striker in this game either. Play Pedro there for ex. for me playing 2 possession cms for this game was also questionable. Stick Alonso there, or literally anyone else even yoko guy. Populate the middle to avoid the predictable thrashing. Think folks here were underestimating United. They have very dangerous attackers and miss who can punish you for every mistake, as they did.

Yup. I’d not mention smaller national teams though. Being a starter for USA or Nigeria means nothing at this level. Esp in the conditions the teams are in atm. So, mostly I made my point against the majority of pl sides, but against the top clubs we are indeed lacking. That’s why United were more clinical. We have nothing like martial or rashFord at this time. We have potential, but not the final product. we have to hope some of these potentials deliver very very soon tho.

Fair enough on the Mount point. Still, Ross is the more established PL player of the two at this time. Completely disagree on the second and I 100% blame lampard for the thrashing. I'm very confident both Mourinho and Cconte would've easily avoided the thrashing by being more pragmatic in order to match the challenge. Yes, that's exactly what I'm arguing, that the approach was nowhere pragmatic enough for the fixture at hand. Starting Tammy in this game was a very questionable choice (being generous here). For ex, does he (over)rate Zouma perhaps? Given that he let luiz go and then played zouma with only two possession cms protecting him in a tough away match.

same question I ask about Bakayoko. I think it's their physicality: it can only take you so far though. They are both super strong athletes, but really poor on the ball.

hmm you talk as if our starting XI was not filled with national team starters. When Rudiger is back, both him and Andreas start for their respective national teams. Azpi is selectable on the right - only Emerson is not in contention for Brazil. Zouma is poor, but Lampard was behind Luiz departure, so... In midfield all three players are strong internationals, one being a key player for the last World Champion. The striker, who bizarrely did not start today was also in that same winning WC side. Ross Barkley starts for England and has given good performances so far. Yes, once we go into wingers and AM, we are lacking, even considering Willian as an international as well. But let's not pretend we aren't a lot stronger than the vast majority of the PL teams. So, yes, Lampard should be given time, but he also needs to do better and adjust accordingly. For example, if he does not have the quality to keep possession, then don't. If the defenders are lacking at the moment protect them by having more defensive mids in the lineup, not more attackers/wingers. Wasn't the main criticism of Sarri how inflexible he was?

hmm don't follow. AFAIK Mount did not play last season, but Ross did. So, the one player shoehorned here was Mount (presumably based on pre-season performances which don't matter one bit). Like I said, regardless of how promising mount is, and I think he is very promising, this was the sort of game to be a bit more conservative and play the established starters as much a possible. And I think Lampard did not do that at all today. For me the thrashing is on lamps, not the players.

Maybe maybe not, it's hardy the point. Thought both were doing OK, but barkley as a more senior player would've been more likely to influence the game. Like I said, Mount looked promising, but was still ineffective. Nobody said he was ready, and that was a strange choice by Lamps for me: both starting him and then subbing off barkley instead of Mount in this type of game and considering we were already missing some senior players. Regardless what one thinks of united, this was a difficult fixture. Still, I see that he has the close control in tight spaces, which makes him a very interesting prospect. again, Barkley should've remained (for a number of reasons esp goal threat), but that's on lamps with some strange choices before and during the game.

We may have a disagreement regarding the final scoreline BTW, He was also part of the decision-making regarding luiz situation. Perhaps he though Zouma was good enough being a "pure defender" whatever the fuck that means? Regardless, my point was not about Zouma, but the other choices, including high defense line with the likes of Zouma in the mix. Was kante fit? Wasn't Giroud fit? Why subbing off Barkley who was very lively? Could've played Kante next forming a trio CMs for example, even if Kante was a sure sub in the second half (doubt it since he was sitting on the bench). heck he could've played Pedro as a false 9 instead of Tammy. I think Lamps gave too much credit to pre-season development and the team he used there. I have to say it looked like an attacking-minded naive starting lineup considering the match in question.

This only works once. If it becomes a norm, players will start asking themselves why it's always their fault and the manager is never wrong.

heh please don't generalize comments made by a few. Overplaying youngsters has NEVER worked. I know we have a lot of folks who are excited about developing youth, I am too, but it's a slow process most of the time with very few exceptions. On my end, would rather avoid thrashings like this if we can help it. And this sort of result does nothing in developing the youth. Lampard needs to do better. This is the sort of game that a mourinho approach would be justified. Play the senior who are avail and fit, and close down shop. Was expecting more from lampard today.

heh yeah hard to ignore RLC incisiveness as in goals but he's likely long ways from getting back to that form.

Oh no I’m not saying do that in a regular basis, but as an emergency in very special circumstances, like against Arsenal for ex. Not a real strong team in the air anyway. perhaps even zouma will be enough against the typical pl high ball teams, but he’s so poor on the ball and that will get exploited esp. y savvy top attackers.

I truly hope that you are right and that I’m wrong. That all he needs is a good run of games to improve, but I’m just calling the way I see it... his movement, turns, work rate, look all off to me.

Sorry I think Tammy is an awful awful footballer at this time. He is completely lost. Does not even participate enough of the game. i truly hope he improves, but he’s unplayable right now. Perhaps can help against the smaller sides, but this was no game for him.

Unpopular opinion probably, but I’m very impressed with him at United. Yes he was inneffective, but that is down to his selection for this game. He showed really tight control of the football in really tight spaces. Looking forward to his development.

Yes he is, but the other one is a completely inapt player. azpi worked well in a 3cb system and Andreas is pretty good in the air.

disagree. The lack of robustness in the team is a classic reflection of inexperience. Think folks here focus way too much on usual match mistakes that happen all the time. Yes, zouma one was a real bad mistake, but the others were just game circumstances and result from high defense line and in line. football is a team sport and players get more exposed when having to cover for players who are not pulling their weight. When we pretty much play down a men from the get go with Tammy, that will affect all areas of the pitch, not only the attack.

Agreed. Getting old is harsh on players esp fullbacks who rely more on pace. on the other hand, older players get longer to regain fitness early season, so he may still get to his normal level this season. he’s twice the defender zouma is, so no brainer really.