Jase

Lampard's handling of Tomori is something that hasn't been spoken enough.

Problem with the latter is that even if we perform well at Fulham - but don't win - there's no guarantee that we would carry on performing well in the subsequent games. We would need a 3, 4, 5 consecutive good performances to give us actual hope. From Lampard's perspective, he needs the wins to buy himself time and do whatever the hell he wants to do (only god knows at this point). Otherwise, he's gone. If anything, I'd like to see Lampard at least try changing things up - e.g. a change of formation - because whatever he is doing now is definitely not working as well as it did over a month ago.

Since comparing Lampard with Klopp is a common thing, did a minor digging on how Klopp progressed each season at Liverpool (+ only key signings highlighted): *took over in October* 2015/16 - 8th (60 pts) + League Cup Final + Europa League Final *bought Matip, Mane, Wijnaldum* 2016/17 - 4th (76 pts) *bought Salah, Robertson, Van Dijk (January)* 2017/18 - 4th (75 pts) + Champions League Final *bought Fabinho, Alisson* 2018/19 - 2nd (97 pts) + Champions League Win 2019/20 - 1st (99 pts) Lampard bought Mendy, Silva, Chilwell, Ziyech, Havertz and Werner in the summer and unless we go on some sort of crazy winning run, we look on course for another finish between 60-70 points again or maybe even lower than that! Plus based on current form, it doesn't seem likely we'll go far in the Champions League either while another FA Cup run is no guarantee. We have never gone 2 straight seasons without winning a trophy under Roman.

Let's face it, there will never be another Sir Alex Ferguson at a big club again. Managers don't last more than 3 or 4 seasons at such a club in modern football and if a manager happens to stay that long or longer, there's a high chance that his message, voice etc won't have the same impact on the players as before. We saw it with Guardiola at Barcelona, Klopp at Dortmund and those two seem to be experiencing the same issue perhaps right now at Man City and Liverpool respectively for example. I don't think it's the players who are dictating the manager's fate this time. We no longer have a group of players with a big ego and all that. The main problem we have now is Lampard. It's all good preaching patience and I don't think anyone is against it but we also need to see progression on the pitch. Lampard can't be spending over 200 million on new players and have us doing worse than last season - e.g. being 3 points worse off than at the same stage last season. We are also 18 months, not 18 weeks, into his tenure at the club and we have no real style of play, no identity, no clear tactical idea of what we are trying to do on the pitch. It's alarming to see that our football was more enjoyable in Lampard's first 6 months than all the nonsense thrown up since then. We can't have players like Ziyech, Havertz, Werner, Pulisic etc and then have the team just spam high crosses into the box (I really want to know what did Lampard say to Havertz/Werner/Ziyech when he persuaded them to join us because I don't believe for one second that 'spamming crosses' football is the vision he sold to them). That's not modern football. That's football from the 90s. That's football played by sides like Burnley and West Brom, not a big club with the ambition to win big titles. We also can't be yo-yo-ing between two extremes in our performances after 18 months under Lampard. When we are good, we are good but when we are bad, we are very bad. There doesn't seem to be a middle ground with us. How many draws or defeats under Lampard can we really say "yeah, we played well in that game but were unlucky not to win because we didn't our chances etc"? Granted they aren't wins but every draw and every defeat under Lampard has felt very demoralizing. It always feels like we are going backwards whenever we draw or lose. Lampard said the aim is to close the gap on Liverpool and Man City but based on recent evidence, we look to be even further away from those two and that can't be happening after spending all the money that we have in the summer. On top of that, Lampard's inexperience and failure to react or learn from his mistakes quickly are also proving to be a problem. Inexperience can be excused if that person is a quick learner but Lampard doesn't seem to realize it or capable of it. For example, it's clear that the 4-3-3 hasn't been working for weeks now but nothing has changed. He still tries to play the system, play players that don't necessarily fit the system and just hope it will work. It's maddening. Or another example, we consistently pick up random injuries (mostly muscle related) after a free week and we tend to play badly in games after a free week because Lampard is seemingly overtraining the players but neither he nor his coaching staff seem to be noticing that trend/problem. Lampard has just kept going with it despite the same issue appearing every time. Then there's also the fact that his in-game management is questionable. He doesn't react quickly enough to opposition's tactical changes or when they are dominating us and the team need help/guidance/leadership. His changes lately have also been almost like-for-like, a bit like what Sarri used to do with Kovacic-Barkley sub etc. It's bad enough that Lampard is inexperienced and is facing all this situation and problems the first time but it's also compounded by the fact that his coaching staff are also inexperienced at the highest level. Lampard has no one to fall back on and ask for advice when the going gets tough. Combine that with a young/inexperienced team like ours, it's essentially the blind leading the blind.

Someone's been really busy briefing the media about Lampard's future... https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jan/04/frank-lampard-to-be-given-time-to-turn-things-around-at-chelsea Frank Lampard is to be given time to prove he deserves to stay in his post as Chelsea’s manager despite growing alarm behind the scenes about performances and the club’s board being alerted to Thomas Tuchel’s interest in the job if it becomes available. Chelsea’s faltering title challenge suffered another setback when they lost 3-1 at home against Manchester City on Sunday, putting Lampard in danger of being sacked before the end of his second season in charge. Although the humiliating defeat by City is unlikely to result in the 42-year-old being dismissed, he is under mounting pressure and the hierarchy could be forced to act if they fear Champions League qualification slipping from their grasp. Tuchel, who led Paris Saint-Germain to the Champions League final last season before being sacked by the French champions last month, has been put forward as a potential replacement. The pressure on Lampard has grown following a run of four defeats in six games, leaving the board increasingly concerned about the team’s lack of progress this season. Roman Abramovich, the owner, gave Lampard over £200m to spend on signings last summer but Chelsea lie in eighth place after 17 games. They are seven points behind Liverpool in first place and, unless their form improves, face a fight to finish in the top four. It is believed Lampard, whose contract runs out in the summer of 2022, retains Chelsea’s backing for now. Conscious of his legendary status at Stamford Bridge, the club would prefer not to act hastily with their former midfielder. Lampard fared well after replacing Maurizio Sarri in the summer of 2019, overcoming a transfer ban to qualify for the Champions League and reach the FA Cup final. He also earned plaudits for promoting Chelsea’s young players. Chelsea are prepared to give Lampard an opportunity to reverse the slide, especially with the top half of the Premier League table so cramped. They are due to host Morecambe in the third round of the FA Cup on Sunday, though the tie could be postponed as a result of a Covid-19 outbreak at the League Two club, before a trip to Fulham on Friday week offers a chance to return to winning ways in the league. Yet expectations are higher this season. Although there is an acceptance that injuries to key players have made the task harder, Lampard’s inexperience has shown at times. He is in only his third season of management – he had a year with Derby in the Championship before returning to Chelsea – and although he still enjoys support from the dressing room his approach has been questioned privately by some players. There is concern that Lampard is yet to hit upon his best starting XI and has struggled to integrate Kai Havertz and Timo Werner following their big-money moves from the Bundesliga. Havertz, who has found it hard since testing positive for coronavirus in November, started on the bench against City, who led 3-0 at half-time, while eyebrows were raised at Lampard’s decision to start Werner at centre-forward instead of Olivier Giroud or Tammy Abraham. Werner has gone 13 games without a goal and rarely troubled City’s defence, while Lampard’s use of Callum Hudson-Odoi was also called into question. There was surprise when Christian Pulisic and Hakim Ziyech, who has just returned from a hamstring injury, started on the flanks instead of Hudson-Odoi, who had impressed in recent outings and scored Chelsea’s consolation after coming off the bench. Chelsea’s approach was exposed by City and it is understood that some within the dressing room believe the team do not have a clear identity under Lampard, who criticised his players in public after the Boxing Day defeat against Arsenal. However, the lack of clear alternatives could buy Lampard time. It is believed Chelsea’s top choice was Mauricio Pochettino before the former Tottenham manager replaced Tuchel at PSG. Tuchel boasts a stronger pedigree than Lampard and took PSG to the edge of European glory before losing August’s Champions League final against Bayern Munich 1-0. Yet while the German has a reputation for playing attacking football, he struggled to cope with the internal politics at PSG. Julian Nagelsmann is another option, though the 33-year-old German is unlikely to want to leave RB Leipzig until the summer. Max Allegri, the former Juventus manager, is also out of work and has been linked with the job. The picture will become clearer in the coming weeks. After facing Morecambe and Fulham, Chelsea will want to see how Lampard fares in league games against Leicester, Burnley, Wolves and Tottenham. The first leg of Chelsea’s last-16 tie against Atlético Madrid in the Champions League next month could also be pivotal in deciding his future.

TBF and as @OneMoSalah mentioned above, it's difficult to have 2 young players - only 1 year separates them - vying for the same position in the defence. Unless, there's injury, suspension or just wanting to rest a player, it's unlikely the manager will ever rotate much in a position where you want consistency in the backline. In an ideal world, the club would have loved to keep both James and Lamptey but Lamptey chose to leave because he knew and saw the club chose James to be our #1 right back for the future. Azpi wasn't the issue or anything since he's already getting on and he's not the future for us. This is always gonna be a problem when we have an excellent academy with all the talented players. We aren't going to be able to play/use everyone and some are bound to slip through the door. Also for his sake, hope it doesn't turn out to be an issue but Lamptey has been struggling with a hamstring problem at Brighton.

Speaking of Werner being used centrally, here's what Lampard said when he was asked about it on Sunday...

Players join us because we are a big side that always look to challenge for titles and win trophies. Even Mount was talking about it over a month ago, about how our aim is to be #1 etc. Would think Lampard's message behind closed doors isn't too dissimilar to what he has been saying in the public. There has been too much self-fulfilling prophecy from Lampard after every bad result. He keeps on saying we are not at Liverpool's or Man City's level and that might be true right now but are the likes of Man United, Leicester, Southampton and Spurs at their level? No but they are much closer to the top than we are and look where United are right now in the table. Can go top of the table with a win next week. Just because we are a work in progress, it doesn't mean we shouldn't embrace the challenge of pushing ourselves beyond the limit or aim as high as possible. Compare and contrast Lampard's approach here to Mourinho's in 2013/14 when we were also at a similar stage of building a new team.

You will support Hasenhuttl for years? How sure are you that you're not gonna turn against him after a run of bad results? Would you have kept him after that 9-0 loss to Leicester had you been a Southampton fan?

If we are gonna go for the new manager bounce, at least maybe hire someone better than Shevchenko? Someone maybe with more experience or at least knows the league as a manager?

Tony Pulis is available.

When you see how Lampard is making us play right now, you can see why the big clubs in England always go for foreign managers and there aren't many successful English managers, because they aren't tactically innovative, not in-tune with modern football and still play football from decades ago.

@Blue Armour You said that our title challenge went up in smoke after Klopp said we are the favorites (or something along those lines)...might have something more to do with our own manager playing down our chances after beating Leeds. Instead of trying to instill belief in the players, our manager tried to manage expectations too much. We might not be the finished article just yet but given the nature of this season, we could have at least given it a good go but alas, we're in 9th and 7 points off the top.

Could have been up there, challenging for the title at the very least but the manager...

Am too mentally drained to argue at this point. All I'll say is if you don't give players the right platform to shine - be it Werner, Havertz or whoever else - then they are bound to fail. It's nonsense if you criticize the manager for poor coaching and then turn around to blame the players as well. This all feels like the Mourinho-De Bruyne situation from years ago. That's assuming Lampard gets the sack but what if he doesn't get the sack? What if we suddenly turn our form around and he stays on? Then what? How are you gonna fit someone like Werner in if we continue to spam high crosses into the box? And mind you, this isn't even just about spamming crosses to the strikers and whoever plays upfront. Take yesterday's game as an example, we even tried to spam high crosses for Pulisic, whose height is only 1.73m, and there are plenty of other examples from past games. Lampard has all these attacking players at his disposal. It's his fucking job to find a way, to find a playing style that suits majority of the players, if not all, and not only 1-2 players like Abraham and Giroud. Otherwise, we might as well start selling the likes of Pulisic, Werner and the other short players in the team and start buying giants!

9th in the table. 3 points behind Spurs in 4th and have played a game more. Also 3 points behind City in 5th and have played 2 games more.

This is basically us right now...

Should Liverpool lose this, United can go top outright on January 12 before they go to Anfield...

Saw this earlier and no wonder he's been out of job.

I think it could be him. The Athletic also reported the same thing about players on the fringes out of the squad being unhappy.

Rudiger? Why would Rudiger even be complaining about the tactics when he's not even playing much?