OneMoSalah

Yeah dont see the whole copying Rashford thing. Footballers have been involved with various charities for years. Some choose to stay anonymous/not confirm it then some use social media to promote the charities to get donations for it. Would more say that Rashford has inspired a whole generation of young footballers to get involved more than anything. Which is great. Rate he is going I really wouldn’t be surprised if he gets a knighthood in a year or two at some point because he really is using his status to help and the fact he had been sending stuff to the MPs which prompted them to reverse a decision they had made regarding free meals for approximately 1.3 million children being stopped in the summer. He wont be the only one either, so many people have stepped up during this pandemic and they all deserve to be highlighted and praised.

Sarri gets a lot of criticism but Kante played some of his best football here under Sarri IMO. Bar the Conte title winning season where else did he play as well as he did at times with Sarri? Certainly not in Antonio’s 2nd season and he’s regressed hugely with Frank IMO. Or are people going to claim he was a one season wonder now? His all round game came on considerably but nobody ever says it and he built on the progress with the ball he made under Antonio particularly in the first season. He was moulded into the sort of role Allan had at Napoli under Sarri. It wasn’t everyone’s cup of tea but he has never been a number 6 yet half the English media and undoubtedly half the Chelsea fan base jumped on this bandwagon for a while which youd think having seen him play as more of a box to box midfielder; was criminal. The CHO criticism is also ridiculously overstated. Name me a PL game under Sarri that Callum did anything of note in? It was all pre season and Europa games against poor opposition he looked good, not the PL games where he looked ordinary. RLC was the guy who should have played more in my eyes under Maurizio. Again Kepa in his first season, everyone was more than happy. He should of progressed but he has regressed for whatever reason but after his first 12 months there is no way anyone seen his development going this poorly but people also said Courtois was done despite being the 3/4th top GK in the world so I am not surprised anymore. Its biting us now but 2 years ago I know a lot of folk on here where more than happy with Kepa which would indicate there is more to his downturn in form than him being pure and utter shit.

Tbf wouldn’t touch him with a 100 ft barge pole. Tried to leave the season before he got his move, them eventually got his move and looks a shadow of the player he was. Some players leave and come back, doing well (Luiz and Drogba) but Eden at his age, with the way he is, he will never reach those heights that he was here. Not at Madrid with “better players, a overlapping FB, whatever” as people said here that was ‘holding him back’. Theres a reason for the last 18 months nobody has mentioned him as a top 3 or top 5 player in the world as they did a lot here and whole that may be harsh, tell me I am wrong? He has 1 goal for Madrid in 20 odd games last season. Injuries or not. Madrid fans are more excited about Vinicuis and Rodrygo for a reason.

😂 tbf people were annoyed with Edens style too at times on here. Suppose it it works most of the time; not gonna see it change.

I understand but lets not forget there were moments when Didier, when Frank, when Eden missed penalties and it wasnt anywhere near the OTT reaction but because its Jorginho, the usual 😂 I genuinely think your out to get him 👀 Na I suppose it is a miss and on another day coslty but the penalty taking thing being asked after the game is so typical, can't please everybody. It goes by seniority and record I suppose.

If it was anyone else bar Jorginho they wouldn't be asking.....

Need to try find him more at times, you can see he is looking to move a lot of the time but he had to come deeper a lot tonight but at least you can see his runs are precisely what you'd want and even if its short distance when we have the ball or long distance when we nick it back to stretch teams, he makes the right ones more often than not. Hugely impressed me so far though, even if his goals haven't been as frequent as I am sure he would of wanted but there's things to account for that, new league and team although he has 4 in 8 which isn't the worst start either. I think when we see a bit more of a collective attack as opposed to 3 or 4 individuals, he will get much more chances but the question is when will we see that? I know we've just won 4-0 but one goal was a PK, the first one should of been saved.

His progression under Frank has been frustrating at times because there are the sort of games he should be strolling and affecting. Last season he had made big steps but still feel there is more in there and you'd want to see him being decisive against inferior opposition. I don't get why Frank had left him out for a few games either, that is still lost on me. As mentioned above, he has got so much more to be more decisive but he isn't always. He is still a very good player but you'd like to see him score/create more chances which we did last season at times although I do think he should of had a cut back tonight from Dave. He is good at driving forward with the ball also but there's a tendency, regardless who has played in midfield this year, that we go from side to side and limit risk. Is this coming from the players or the manager or a mix of both because its not just been a Kovacic problem, its been a Jorginho problem, its been a Kante problem, its been a Mount problem. I get limiting risks in central areas as losing the ball there is huge but they also have to be a bit more brave and realize that they are good players who can play forward at times.

Perhaps but still, you going to say that the win percentage couldn't be more if set plays such as corners or FKs were defended better? (Yes the GK can come into that but I wouldn't say he is purely to blame for all the set pieces we've from conceded either - zonal marking big feature the last 13 or 14 months) If at times the in game management wasn't better and we weren't bombing wingbacks up the field in the 92nd minute v West Ham when its 2-2 or sitting off Southampton at 3-1 up or whatever? Or is it purely a lets say make out that individual mistakes are the only reason this Chelsea team and Frank's managerial record is at the percentage it is? To give the impression that despite the fact its low, it should be much better? Because that's what I feel your trying to do. I get the feeling people will allude to Kepa, Zouma and Jorginho etc but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that this team has other issues than a few guys making mistakes individually. Look at how many times this mob had got through out midfield this game alone when it was 4231? Or is this purely on the players again? Or how predictable some of the attack was until we switched to 433 and they ran out of gas? Or again is 200m worth of players at fault? If things like this and mistakes are happening as often as they have with Frank in his spell here, that screams out to me there is much more wrong than just one or two players having bad games, it has to be. You cannot have individual mistakes for 13 or 14 months. People make mistakes but when they become clear and obvious every game or every few games, something is wrong. Yes I have said about giving him the time, I reckon 18 months is a fair point to judge him at. I think its roughly enough time for a manager to get some sort of identity and shape his squad. I get the transfer ban etc, its a bit of a shit one but still, as you've said now this is his team and they need to gel but they didn't have a good structure to go into these new players or a team with a clear identity either IMO which won't help them adapt. And some people might say that's too long, there are guys who can put their identity on a team in as little as 2 months or even sooner. Just look at Poch when he went to Southampton or Klopp at Liverpool, the first few games it was hugely evident what their ideas of football were. Even if the quality wasn't there. Still struggling to see what sort of team we are going to be. Are we a high pressing team without the ball? Are we a more reactive team without the ball? Are we an out and out attacking team? Are we a counter attacking team? Its very much all up in the air, it seems to change each week. Variation is good but not to the point where you watch a game each week unsure which style or approach is going to be used. And people complained we had no identity under Sarri when we had a much more clearer one too..... The worst players who unfortunately had some of the most key roles in that system? Why can't I? Your not going to tell me that as well that if Cahill and Luiz also didn't play fantastic that season that they wouldn't deserve praise as they were notoriously towards the bottom of everyone's list of good players at Chelsea. Or are we now at the point where we are going to just purely say that Eden and Diego won us the league alone that season? Despite the huge amount of clean sheets? Despite Kante and Matic's amount of recoveries and tackles in MF? Or not the fact that great coaching and a clear identity made a huge difference? Which is what I am alluding to with this team, if we had that, it would compensate for some of these guys deficits because we have good players, even last season. And its not Jorginho's fault, Kepa's fault, Zouma's fault we don't have a clear identity, unfortunately.

It does though. Unless you're arguing it's franks fault that kepa lost it mentally? Which would be a hilarious take... No but what I am saying is that you cannot purely say Franks win percentage is poor because he lost Eden and had Kepa. Its not as if Kepa made a mistake in the every other one of the 49% of games we haven't won under Frank. And its not as if Eden would of scored in the other 49% either. I had an opinion on Frank and Kepa, slightly similar to the whole Conte-Christensen events of a few seasons ago but it doesn't hugely blame the manager and doesn't get away from the fact that the player has had plenty of chances and not done well. But in this point, regarding the win percentage and the context you've argued there regarding losing Eden and having Kepa. Sarri had us 3rd best defensive record with Luiz-Rudiger and Kepa playing virtually every game in the PL.... so I don't think its necessarily fair to say that its purely down to the fact he had the Kepa, a transfer ban or no Eden Hazard. Conte won the PL with Moses and Alonso as pretty much key players at wing back mate, just shows the difference between what good coaching can do. Although not to say Frank hasn't done well in periods particularly after the tough start and before 2020. Ziyech goal.

He also had lost our best player since frank himself with a transfer ban and had the statistically worse keeper in the history of the prem. Context matters Tbf Sarri had this defence as the 3rd best statistically in the league with the "statistically worst keeper in the history of the prem" so in terms of that context I don't think that really matters at all.

Best way to describe us under Lampard in 2020 is 11 individuals and not a team. Simple as that. Not just this game, most games this year bar a handful.

Whys Chilwell not just crossing that after Zouma’s cross fielded it to him? 2 players (I think?) in the box and he tries a 1-2 and makes it more difficult for himself IMO plus its pulled Timo away from in and around the penalty spot. I do get the feeling we are unnecessarily over complicating things when we finally get to the middle/final thirds which doesn't help when they are just sitting in. They want us to try over complicate things, to try play through a low block when they can see the build ups slow with short passes and they can get back into position. I don’t get we dont go a bit more direct and play Giroud in some of these types of games if I am honest, these sort of awkward teams. Yes he’s limited in some ways yes but at least you can go a bit more direct and get Havertz, Hudson-Odoi and Ziyech into the game sooner if he can take it in plus with guys like Ziyech, Chilwell and Azpilicueta willing to put the ball in the box who would be better at getting to them? Or even throw him on and play Timo off him be it from the left or in a 2 man partnership. Still feels very unconvincing. Only winning due to a GK error and yes the missed penalty hurts but our play and creation of chances from open play is hugely uninspiring.

Thank fuck. But jesus christ that keeping there was horrendous. Games been so boring, wouldn’t be surprised if it finishes 1-0

Yep. Franks a smart guy but even if it was set up or not set up, I thought he would know that it was a bit of a daft comment to make. I remember Roy Keane saying he was avoiding criticism last season in the same way OGS was because he was English in the Sky Sports studio, where we had lost as many/more games than United at the time and while its not completely all true to turn around and say he's judged more due to being only Englishman managing in the top 6 of the PL is absurd. I would say it would buy him less criticism because we've all seen how people want young talented English players to do in the past and don't see how its any different with managers? I mean look at Eddie Howe as well, youngish English manager who a few seasons ago was linked with the England job before Southgate got it full time? As well as the Arsenal job and Everton jobs in the past few seasons. Despite the fact he probably escaped criticism based on how many goals Bournemouth conceded because they "always tried to play football the right way" which again I don't think was necessarily true because there was a lot of games where they sat in and counter attacked particularly the last 2 seasons they were in the PL. Where as Sean Dyche has probably done a better job in terms of the budget he's been given to work with at Burnley and people wouldnt even consider him for anything more than Burnley (did they not go through Europa League qualification one season?) Not saying he will ever be top notch or that but the young manager thing is probably similar to young players (well most places bar here), where they can get a lot of hype or a lot of leeway with regards to criticism.

I see Frank claims he is being judged differently due to being the only English coach at a top 6 club. I think he has to remember he flew under the radar from the media when we were struggling last season for some reason or another. And guys like van Gaal, Villas-Boas, Benitez got it worse than he did at other clubs or here. I think he could of made excuses last season but not so much now because theres no obvious signs of improvement. Need to start seeing better progress starting tomorrow in an attacking sense. Good opportunity to get a good few goals.

Its not just about the position for me. Its the point count. Is 9 points in 6 games a good start for Chelsea? I know that the points are a direct contribution on your position but still, if you said after 6 games we'd only have 9 points prior to the season kicking off I think people would say that's not enough. And that's regardless of who is the manager, the squad and the way the other teams are playing. In fact the way the other teams are playing, it makes it look even worse because we could have set the benchmark (although I did say its not about the position after 6 games as there's a long way to go but even under Villas-Boas, Di Matteo, Mourinho 2nd spell bar the last season, Conte, Sarri we had more points on the board after 6 games) and really put a lot of pressure on those other teams to be chasing us. I mean look at Villa, Leeds, Everton, who have all got worse squads than us and have started well. You say the unpredictable results make it open but they've had good starts and that also throws them in the mix if they maintain it for top half finishes and beyond. When you consider who we've played in the PL so far - Brighton, Liverpool, West Brom, Crystal Palace, Southampton and Man United - you could excuse dropping points v Liverpool (especially as we had 10 men) and United at their place (even then I am more inclined to say based on the WBA and Southampton games though, we should have been going there for a win because they aren't the same team they've been for years and years). The likes of West Brom and Southampton though, they were draws but they felt like losses in the manner of how those games went. Never showed up first half v WBA then never showed up second half v Southampton. That's why I think most of us would of expected a bit more us in the second half v United, especially after how the first half went, United were there for the taking I think, they really were but again they had the best chances. I get it a point at Old Trafford and a clean sheet would maybe not the end of the world but this United team aren't remotely even close to the one it was under Ferguson or even as it was under Mourinho for a while before that went to shit, so I can see why people are so frustrated. Our team isn't either obviously but if your going to tell me a squad (aware some werent in the 11 or on the bench or subbed on but the quality point is more appropriate than who was there and who wasnt) with Giroud, Havertz, Werner, Ziyech, Pulisic, Jorginho, Kante, Kovacic, Abraham, Hudson-Odoi, Mount etc in it isn't good enough to do more in that second half, it would be incredible. Frank just settled for the point, probably accounting for previous results v United and other games but still, could of done more. Remember September with Antonio Conte in his first season? A draw with Swansea, losses to Arsenal and Liverpool left us with 10 points in 6 games and people complained, or were vocal about how we shouldn't have drawn with Swansea as getting those 3 points prior to playing those two big games was paramount - although again the nature of the performance and the "defensive/counter attacking approach" was heavily criticized again. We had 1 point out of 9 points in that month after winning the first 3 games of the season in August. In reflection this season, we have only won two games, Brighton and Palace. Loss to Liverpool. Draws with Southampton, United and West Brom. The two smaller teams feel closer to a loss than a draw as well in the manner of how those games were draws. The points we have right now are directly based on results and these results are the way they are due to the team in general which as we've seen hasn't really looked solid bar the last 2 games (United still had chances so wouldn't say we were extremely solid). Yes if we go on a run from here, it would be good but I still think when we reflect on the end of the season, with how tight the whole top 4-7 positions are going to be 4 or 5 points could be a big difference.

Think he is a bit of a very languid looking player obviously not an excuse but he isn’t necessarily a busy body or a dog for instance. Still think he needs a few more games, he could have done more but the structure isn’t great and the attacking game plan isn't ideal either.

But its been like this relying on individual brillIance since the end of 2019 to now. As has been discussed in other threads. really? Wheres the goals coming from? Look at the second half. Look at v Sevilla. Its either be solid and struggle offensively or the opposite way round.

If we hadn't dropped points v WBA and Southampton, I would take this draw as a clean sheet at Old Trafford along with a point isn’t always the worst thing in the world. Now though, having dropped them points, I think today was a real chance to make a statement and we needed the 3 points. Typical we went 343. Don’t understand why. We didn’t even play 343 v Liverpool. 9 points from 6 games isn’t amazing and questions rightfully should be asked as its a poorer return than expected. Must win every game in the league up to Spurs now to get some more points on the board, then hopefully get a win v Spurs.

Yeah seen that. mental

They are there to be had. Getting beat is not an option. Draw away would normally be sound but with 8 points from 5 games a win is a must IMO.

I think for Barcelona yes, 100%. He did play CM for Liverpool briefly under Rodgers for a period but I don't think its his best position because in terms of building the game it isn't a strength of his. He has to be in the final third. Also the 4231 it gives them the chance to put someone with more legs in beside Busquets who is slowing down but his quality on the ball is still good. Then de Jong obviously, is a top player, tremendous at receiving the ball under pressure and dealing with it 9/10 times.

Been wondering why they have never played 4231 for years. Suits Messi, suits Coutinho, suits de Jong, would of suited Suarez if he stayed and played infront of Messi as a 9 also before he left. Obviously it gives Messi the chance to play on the shoulder or more liekly, drop as a false 9. He has plenty of pace around him with Pedri and Fati as well.

I think he bought himself some time after the first 6 months of last season. Before the dip. I really do. And getting the chance to buy players this summer has obviously helped him to the point where he has put his own stamp on the squad a bit but as you've said we need to see where we are at in December. I don't think 18 months is unfair and most clubs now a days probably give that as a minimum time before changing unless its something drastically bad. 8 points in 5 games isn't good enough though and a win today regardless of it being United, is a must imo.