CHOULO19

The VERY simple explanation is that those players were good enough at that age to start for their respective clubs because at the time they did not have anyone better in their squads.While RLC, and all of the other youth players, although very promising, are no where near the quality of the first team. We always over-hype our youngsters and delude ourselves of how good they are, but fact is, NONE of the youth products here have amounted to anything after leaving Chelsea. Jack Cork is the most successful of the whole bunch! Our perception of those young players is always soooo far away from reality. Take Chalobah, for example, who might still be able to salvage a career here. But he had a few good games at Watford (and a few bad ones which no one likes to remember) and he was suddenly better than Ramires and Mikel and someone even said that he would a good shout for the England NT for the 2014 WC! Look at reality, though, he can't get a game for Burnley and last season was poor in the championship.

He'll just turn up at City... ...wait, that's brilliant! That's how we ruin City's season! Make sure Torres ends up with them by selling him to Red Bulls

Of course he won't! He's 18 years old and not anywhere near ready to be in the first team. Naturally, he wouldn't even get his debut for at least 2-3 more years but because we had a low-pressure match Jose decided to give him something of a motivation and a good moment for the lad, but it was never going to be more than a gesture.

Yes, I agree, there is little evidence either way, so, like I said to Barbara above, we can agree to disagree until there is more analyze. It is just a personal opinion on how I expect him to perform based on his abilities and attributes.

JT's technical ability has always been criminally underrated.

Yes, but not if he's still not 100% fit and starting him might risk him getting injured.

My intention was not to compare the two situations. I meant to give evidence that playing in a position in a certain system doesn't mean you can play it in any system. Of course the two situations are not comparable. You might be right that fatigue may have played a part in his performance yesterday, but I do think that, like you said, the inconsistency in his performances have been exaggerated. We can agree to disagree on how effective he can be in the advanced role until we have more games to judge on. Actually, if you go to the first point, it was that he is better playing deep than more advanced which some people seem to disagree with. And my second point, I guess, has been that, if some reason we don't want to play Cesc in the pivot, should he played more forward? And I'm arguing that, no, we should still play Oscar or Willian there because I think they offer more in that position.

Call it whatever you want, I don't think he plays nearly as well in the number ten role in our system as Oscar or Willian. I thought it was a very big drop in performance. He went from being the engine of the whole team and the architect who designs the attacks and controls the tempo, to fairly limited impact on our attack, mostly through set-pieces. Salah, Schurrle and even Matic had a much bigger impact on our attack and general play than him.

How does the Mata make it worse? I didn't compare any of the abilities of Cesc to that of Mata I was just using Mata to point out how playing 10 in a certain system does not mean that you can play 10 at any system. The main difference for me is physically. Cesc does not have the strength of Oscar and Willian nor their speed. Yes, Cesc presses well, but he's literally the last one of our players you'd want to see sprint and that would be an issue if he plays the 10 because we press with a 4-4-2. Plus, playing in Oscar's position means that he'd often need to switch positions with the wingers and, unless he is taking a FK , I really don't want to see Cesc on the wing. In the final third, he just doesn't the movement and runs off the ball to create space like Oscar and Willian do and would naturally have less time and space on the ball. I really thought that yesterday proved exactly this. His performance was several notches lower than usual. He didn't have nearly as much impact on the game as he usually does and was bullied off the ball several times near the box. So, yes, if, for some reason we need to not play Cesc in the pivot in an important match, then I would not like to see him in a more advanced role as long as Oscar or Willian are available.

But you said it right there, in a completely different system which can be even more different than playing a different position, just take Mata for example. Call it playing him out of his usual role if you don't like "out of position". Unless we are going to completely change both our pressing and attacking system, I wouldn't like to see Cesc in an advanced role except to give rest to other players like yesterday.

-_________- I lost some of my will to live after reading that 'joke'...

I would much rather have Oscar or Willian in the number 10 position regardless of who is playing in the pivot. Even if Jose judges in a certain game that Rami or Mikel should start over Cesc, that doesn't mean we have to play him out of position and somehow try to jam him into the team.

Holland: "There's not a lot that he can't do, so I guess we can now add 'taking penalties' to his list of repertoires"

Yes, and he asked RLC if he has "filled into his body, yet".....

If Rami is 100% fit, he naturally he should be the one to come into the side, otherwise, Mikel replace Cesc. Though, we should really beat those with our U21s team. They're that bad!

I think Solanke should get him "a nice bottle of red wine" for yesterday. He assisted his first two goals on a silver plate and set up the move for his hat-trick goal. He looks so much more mature and developed than the rest of his teammates, even if not as talented as the likes of Boga or Musonda.

Well, I didn't say it was impossible, I said he "might not become world class". But, let's be honest, it's very unlikely. He just doesn't the technical and natural ability on the ball. But that shouldn't stop him from being a very solid defender.

I fully expected it. Roma are the biggest bottlers in Italy, especially in European competitions. They have a huge history of bottling the big matches.

jokedʒəʊk/noun 1. a thing that someone says to cause amusement or laughter, especially a story with a funny punchline.

The suggestion that he should be played at number 10 has been there since we signed him. Even yesterday there were a couple of "Finally Cesc at 10" posts when the team news came out. I never got that. He's much more useful when he had a bit more space and time to look up and pick a pass.

Yes, I'd definitely favor Atletico to beat City purely on physical basis, but I think in certain circumstances that City would have a chance to beat them. Can't say the same if they face Real Madrid. Probably 50-50 with Barca if they get Aguero back (and don't pussy out and try to park the bus like they did last season).

Reporter: Jose, what did you tell Ruben before he came on? Jose: I said he needs to buy a good bottle of red whine, the expensive kind, and he said "no problem".

I think City have a chance against almost anyone (bar Real) but I can't see Arsenal going through unless they get Monaco or possibly Porto. It's amazing how most people refuse to see that at the end of the day only the betting companies make money. I know several people, including a close friend, who've ruined their lives on football betting.

Yes, we all wanted to see more of him, but that was only for sake. After all, this was nothing more than a symbolic gesture to Ruben and all the talents in the academy. He obviously was not going to be part of the first team this season. It's about motivation to keep progressing and that's irrelevant of whether he gets 8 or 28 minutes. I actually agree with Jose that it was probably the right time when he brought him on because the environment was "safe" for him.

Jose said after the game what we all already could feel. Andre hasn't been fully fit for sometime and that he's just now starting to regain full fitness. Great time for him to get back in form as we'll no doubt need him in the next few weeks.