laura90

Mata to Man Utd. Yeah right. Like Moyes would know what to do with attacking midfielder when he sees one... Where he would play him in his 442 system. On the wing? In the summer Rooney will decide where to go. Could we even sign him these days? Is he injured? About transfer.. my version. United are at a low, share prices falling, team tumbling in the league, difficult fixtures ahead. . The fans are getting pretty disgruntled with the 'chosen one'. Club thinks, well lets link ourselves with or maybe even faux bid for some of players that will get them giddy again.. Gundogan, Mata, Cavani, and now Dante ? According to many 'close sources' United are very close. Just as they were with Fabregas, Thiago and others in the summer. For all the poeople excited about this Rooney- Mata swap deal in this transfer window, you may find this page usefull... http://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-beginners-guide-to-the-transfer-window.382842/

There is not much point in continuing with this Mata- Oscar debate. Even if Oscar needs rest and Mata starts few games it will be on the wing with Willian in the middle and will mean nothing and Mata won't be at his best. Like someone said above, Mata just doesn't fit as number 10 in Mourinho system. That's acceptable I suppose, because winning is the aim, what I personally find rather strange is that Chelsea fans accept it as a fact that Oscar is better than Mata just because he fits better in current system. We aren't winning just because Oscar today and we weren't concedeng just because of Mata in past two seasons. Oscar is supposed to be better because he can't do it all, to defend and to create (which is main number 10 task afterall) but these days he mainly plays well off the ball. Regarding the debate: Those who think Mata is better attacking midfielder can't prove their point because Mata doesn't fit . Those who think Oscar is better attacking midfielder are entitled to their opinion because Oscar makes the team defend better but will only prove their point if we win something with that defending. Because there really isn't much difference between finishing 2nd, 3rd or 4th, just ask Wenger; or 6th with CL trophy (wait it's the best option).

We are buying Matic because he is the best DM available out there and I don't object to that move in any way. Our defence improved significantly and we conceded like 1 goal in last 6 matches including Arsenal and Liverpool and people feel offended when I say that defensive midfielder won't improve us dramatically. About Matic he has his moments of brilliance and his pass range is better than Mikel but he ain't creative enough to solve our CM issues by himself or even with Ramires. Matic is destoryer way more than a playmaker and Rami needs to run in order to pass long distance. With two of them, imo, we have two central midfielders with ordinary passing abilities but nothing spectacular. We will need better than that when new striker comes and to beat City in 38 games . Imo I wonder what happened with MVG but even he fit could make better central midfield with Matic. Out of players out there Rakitic would make good combo with Matic. He is quality CM who plays alongside destroyer. Never mind, just because we are buying him due to his qualities as DM, does that really mean that he is what we need most atm? Jose said in public that we need striker but we aren't buying one. Because DM is our priority? Who can be sure that Jose thinks Matic is all it takes? He is not alergic to CMs, he bought Modric. The fact is we didn't have proper DM, CM or striker and who knows who will we buy next. I just tried to explain my opinion further to people who found it outrageous .No need to enter in discussion with me we are all entitled to our own opinions.

Combo of Matic and Ramires would be better than what we have but still not good enough to improve our central midfield dramatically . If creativity in central midfield is not important how come Barca plays Busquets, Bayern won everything when they got Martinez and now are playing Alcantara I guess, City scores a lot with Fernadinho and Yaya who is more offensive than defensive oriented, Juventus improved significantly when they got Pirlo, Real plays with Alonso and Modric, Dortmund has Gundogan ect. In fact the only team who was successfull without playmaker are Man United but they made up for it with great wingers, strikers and superb coach. Just because we don't have genuine playmaker for ages we can't underestimate benefits of having one. Genuine playmaker is even more important when you have creative mids up front to get the best out of them not the other way around. Matic with playmaker would have taken our central midfield to a whole other level , up to the City’s even better. Matic with Ramires not so much. There is the difference.

That is why I only complained about pivot... Which bothered you.So I wonder..What moaning about pivot in the certain game has to do with the fact that it has been said thousand times before?So has been that Torres is shit, and people are saying it tirelessly again and again.Or that Hazard is great, such a amazing player, we all know it, but you read about it in every match thread. etc..People's opinion about something depends on result or what one looks at the moment. And than he praises or blames whoever he holds responsible, regardless of how many time it has been said before. I'm not naive to believe exciting and inspiring football will happen overnight. But I also don't think that high pressing game or brilliant defence are enough to move us in that direction. It will take more, much more, and I'm looking to see the rest. I'm not thinking that pivot is the only improvement needed but having one playmaker would have help us a lot in this game or the others. During this transition. Never mind, I want this club to match quality of football with spendings .It could only help in increasing fanbase, sale of kits, revenue etc.In the short run three points are the most important. But in the long run style of football is important for this club's legacy, stature, even ability to become self sustainable . @ The only place to beNeutrals are potential fans or other football fans who don't support you but respect you nevertheless. I'm not neutral, but that doesn't mean their opinion doesn't matter.

You can write a novel about our 'style of football' but it all comes to this: When we score more than oposition it's great. When we don't score or score less it sucks. Effective football and clean sheets don't mean our style is inspiring and nice to watch, especially for neutrals. In fact most of them say, and I agree, that with the talents we have, our style is rather pedestrian. Of course winning ugly is better than losing with a style, but top teams usually manage both: winning and somewhat nice to watch football. I wouldn't mind this football today if it doesn't happen in at least 6 out of 10 games we play. What's even more astonishing than repeatedly moaning about midfield, is the fact that in last 5 transfer windows we got about 7 attacking midfielders and not 1 proper central midfielder. Happy with win though. May long these clean sheets continue, Hazard and Oscar will need them.

Quite simple really. No proper central midfield - no motor of the team - no proper passing ( the ones who know how are rounded and marked with 8 men) - no organized play - yes relying on individual brilliance and other teams defensive errors. This pressing thing is great but many teams in the league play defensive against us and our all around attacking midfielders can't do much if they get the ball to late. Until we improve our central midfield games like these will not be an exception. Playmaker able to start an attack and make few long passes per game is a must together with striker. Organization of almost every great attack starts from central midfield not from attacking midfielders. That's what I think anyway.

City have the best combination of strikers in European football right now. Opposition plays a high line? Bring Aguero on. Devastating player. Need a target man? Dzeko can step forward . Want pace and power? Hello Mr. Negredo. He may become similar to Drogba the way he’s playing at the moment. Either of those two can unlock deep sitting teams. And Jovetic can still recover from his injuries. They could easily win domestic treble this season. And probably will. They are that good. They will knock out Barca from CL. City's slow start shows nothing, it's just a case of adapting to a new manager . I'm not even saying it because of West Ham game. But because of their overall play, they strikers, their ability to recognize what they need and unlimited funds to buy it. City are setting standards really high. Winning the league without strikers who are scoring for fun ( especially against smaller teams) will be as close to mission impossible as it gets. Winning against smaller teams will be a must still not enough. Arsenal could do it all season and they would still lose. If we fail to bring extremely clinical striker (preferable two - one can't have his day every day) this season or the next, we won't stand a chance against them to win this League.

I was so happy when we signed him. We finally got player who can cross and pass long range passes and we are letting him go. Probably due to FFP, in order to raise money for another signing, but shame really. I'm pretty sure in time he will become world class midfielder, and we will regret heavily for letting him go. He didn't have mentality to compete for his place but some players just need more time and a little bit of faith, and he lacked both things here. He needed to be loaned to lower PL club before competing for his place at Chelsea. Mentality can be improved and installed, especially under good coach and with his talent. Under capable coach, in few years time, he has everything to grow in magnificent player, in terms of creativity better than Willian, Oscar or Mata. I see us offering more money for him in the future, than for Matic now .

We built a team around Mata? That's strange to know, considering we didn't even gave him a proper striker, someone who would convert his numerius passes that never managed to become assists. To get the best out of Mata, team needs defensive, ball disturbing CM and solid DM in pivot and a decent striker. In that case Mata wouldn't have to defend, his offensive assets would become his best defence. But I get it. We are playing different style and Jose loves direct players rather than the flair ones. He doesn't fit in his system. I am among those who want him in other club where he would fit more, be much more needed and appreciated, able to do what he does the best, play attacking midfielder and producing goals and assists. Watching Mata playing as a winger and judging attacking midfielder is rather unfair. With all the defensive work, tackles, tracking back Oscar will be lucky to get half of Mata's 55 assists 32 goals in two seasons. When he does, this debate about who is better AM will be debatable for me. Lets not forget that Drogba didn't play that great in PL and we had not proper striker in PL both seasons. For now Oscar is more complete and fits more in current system. But better in terms of productivity? Not just there yet.

Nobody would be asking to spend more if 80% of our spending budget wasn't used on one winger and 3 attacking midfielders, while already having a damn good one. And if Terry wasn't getting older... And if Cole wasn't getting older... And if Torres was back to his best...

PL is going to be between Man City and Liverpool. We and Arsenal will fight for the third / fourth place. If we remain better than United, of course. Never liked him in particular, but I wish AVB better luck and more wisdom next time around.

No, I never said we need to change our players for Mikel to play better. Just his partner in the pivot.But that wasn't even my point. My point was, it's unfair to blame only Mikel for our midfield being outplayed against every strong team. It's bad combination of players in pivot, too. I said that Mikel needs playmaker by his side in this 4 2 3 1 system to be better, as good as he can. That way he would have more space and freedom to play forward. Ramires, Lampard don't suit him in pivot. If he had Modric by his side, he would be much better player, but not among the best in the world. He lacks ability to play high tempo games and isn't great passer, hence he needs playmaker by his side in the pivot.With our attacking minded players, organised attack is the best defense. But we lose possesion very often shortly after we get it. Everywhere on the field. That's Mikel's fault too? We need playmaker in pivot , regardless of Mikel or creativity upfront, somebody from the back needs to keep possesion, pull the strings, dictate tempo, make long passes and to pass quickly enough to attacking players and give them space and time for maneveur.Ramires needs to run in order to pass and Lampard runs more often then he passes from pivot. Mikel often stays alone there. He has to stay put and to play safe. We knew he was defensive midfielder, he never was playmaker or organizator of the game in that position.In a nutshell, to compliment our pivot players ( Lampard and Ramires - against strong teams) we need solid central defensive midfielder with playmaking abilities.I'm all for getting one by the way. Lack of playmaking abilities from our pivot players was our main problem inthe midfield. Lack of organization and easily lost possesion was the second. Incompatibility of pivot players was the third one. Than Mikel.It's not fair to blame only Mikel for everything bad in midfield and to slate him so much, especially considering that it wasn't easy for him either in this system and formation. My only point.

Mikel is talented guy, who can be very good at times, but seems to lack inner drive and motivation. Maybe he never found DM role appealing to be world beater in it or maybe he never had natural talent to be the best DM in the world. But he was ther when we played nice football too. Under every manager he was starter and after a certain period of time Mikel used to found himself on the bench. That shows him as a player of immense potential but sometimes lazy and inconsistent. That is exactly why we have a divided opinion over him here. Some support him for his potential, others criticize him for the latter part. My opinion on Mikel is that he would do well if the players around him were fast and skilfull on the pitch, which would compensate for his weaknesses and he would find extra space to operate in and we would (maybe) see forward movement and passes from him, however the trouble is that he doesnt have those players at here. We are so out of balance as a squad at present [in the central midfield, especially] that its not just Mikel, many players are finding it hard to acclimatize themselves. The point isn't that we have bad players, but it is that we have players who do not complement each other in terms of their quality and technique. They are too similar. Ramirez, cannot deliver a forward ball either. He cannot go past players either. So is the case with Lampard. All three may be different in their qualities but are extremely similar in their weaknesses. Which is why if you place them together, all three or even two of them on the pitch, we wont see anyone making any significant impact on the pitch, in the midfield area. We can see Lampard scoring goals [which is a strength of his], Ramirez with his energy and tackles [which is his strenght] and Mikel with his physical presence to break up play [a strength that not many possess] but none of the three mentioned can boss the midfield. They lose possession cheaply and fail to activate our attacking midfielders through their game and passing or quick movement of the ball. Which is why in my opinion singling out one is unfair. The problem isn't just Mikel, its the compatibility issue with the player playing by his side. Mikel needs playmaker by his side, someone with pace on the ball and ability to go past players, and he would be much better. But if we tried Oscar as our central (playmaker) , we would need an excellent, completely reliable DM by his side.

It's easy to blame defenders when your midfield sucks, isn't it ? We lose possession very easily, we hardly have it against stronger teams, we don't control games, our central midfield is run over on regular bases, and all we talk about are Luiz mistakes and his error tendency. Fair enough, he made some mistakes, all our defenders did, but could it be because they are exposed most of the time? You think Luiz will make same mistakes in Barcelona? No he won't. Trust me, he will be among best in the team that controls midfield more than 50 % of the time, and where he won't be so much exposed. His other qualities, like involving into attack will show. Our central midfield is huge problem, even as big as strikers problem in Europe. We are controled and run over, and that leaves our players in difficult position. Our only DM can't play high tempo games, our plymaker is non existent. That pivot is almost criminal and it threatens both defenders leaving them exposed far too much, and attackers in Oscar, Hazard, Mata leaving them very little space and time for maneuver. Our central midfield is freaking root of the problems (almost as big as strker in Europe), and I'm yet to hear anything which leads to its resolution. And what Styles said, it's easy to believe he is mistakes prone defender, but if he indeed leaves to Barcelona, you are in for the surprise.

Did Gotze miss that final due to injury or because he already had signed for oposition? Who knows. I bet latter. He is much bigger loss than Lewandowski for them. Yes we wanted players from Liverpool (sadly) and Tottenham but they were not, by any means, our direct and only rivals for the title. Even when we got Ashley, Arsenal was not our direct or only rival at the time. What Bayern and Pep are doing is disgraceful. Killing their only valid oposition to secure themselves free way to every domestic trophy at least. And then, they will say that Bayern is admirable, self-sustaining club able to manage both, making profit and still winning trophies on regular bases. When they win at least double next year, Pep will be the best coach ever and Bayern the team to admire. Nobody will care to notice how disgraceful their transfer policy has been lately, especially few weeks before that final they won. But some people and clubs just don't like to leave anything to chance. It's much easier to win CL if you don't have dificult domestic games to care about. The end justifies the means I guess. Good moves for Bayern, bad moves for Bundesliga that will kick them in the face eventually, at least I hope so. They will become boring and predictable sooner rather than later. La Liga still has both, Real and Barca.

I would like to say Bayern deserved it, it was Karma and so on. They lost my respect when they signed Gotze before CL finished. But Borrusia lost this final when they lost Gotze. From the team and from the final. Klopp is great manager, but as I said before, he will never fulfil his potential at Borrusia, by losing one key player after another, no matter how talented and able he is to find solid replacements. Sahin, Kagawa, Gotze,probably Lewa and so on. That can't be good for team spirit and winning mentality, even with brillian manager he is.

You are constantly saying that Sturridge lacked managerial support and minutes on the pitch. I agree. But have you ever wondered why was that?Go back in 2011, AVB's time. AVB played Sturridge on the wing, even though Sturridge was a striker. That didn't prevent Sturridge from being one of the best and most exciting players, my personal favourite. Sturridge enjoyed full AVB's backing and support, he was beside Mata the first name on the team sheets when healthy. Why AVB didn't play Sturridge on his favourite position, even though he backed him completely? Why he prefered Drogba above Sturridge on striker position, when Torres was benched? If you watched Chelsea team close like you watch Sturridge, you would know that it wasn't AVB's wish to play Sturridge on the wing, it was the NEED. We didn't have, beside Mata, any player who would provide creative spark in the team on regular bases. We didn't have decent winger. We didn't have Hazard. AVB needed him more on the wing than up front. So did RDM. Our team was imbalanced and incomplete. Yet, we had somebody to score in Drogba, Mata, Ramires. But we had nobody to create from the wing, with speed, acceleration, who would took on defenders, pass them with ease and provide passes in the box or final pass to Mata, Ramires, Drogba, make something out of nothing. Only Sturridge. That was reality, and that was his role to play. For this team. But somewhere along the way he stopped, got tired of that position and started to play as a striker. He wasn't winger anymore, he was a striker playing from the wing. So we lost all the benefits he used to provide for us from that position, that Hazard is (only better) providing now. RDM benched him and continued to play Drogba as striker. Mata remained only creative spark most of the time, good oposition knew how to block him, and without Sturridge on the wing our football became lame and painfull to watch in the League. Sturridge had the "misfortune" of being the most talented and skillful player and the best match for the position this team ( our coaches) needed him to play during his first year here as a starter. He had that position on the wing wrapped and it was his to lose. He was head and shouldres above competition. If he continued to play the same way he played under AVB during all season, he would have been a starter and you wouldn't have to count his minutes.You see how uncertain we feel without Hazard tonight ? We felt similarly without Sturridge on the wing last season, but you wont admit that. Of course, Sturridge could create from striker's position, but our team would remain pretty imbalanced. With our slow, and I mean slow build up play, he would constantly be miles in front the rest of the team and would operate almost alone. Our build up was slow. (unlike Liverpool's).About this season, it was clear that Torres will have advantage. But he didn't sign lifelong contract of being our main striker. We had Hazard, we didn't need Sturridge exclusive on the wing anymore. He had space to fight for striker position. At the end, Sturridge's decision and right to get what he wanted (striker position) , to get it fast, without additional adjustment to team needs and sacrificing was almost equally responsible as lack of this club's and managerial support ( for playing him on the wing) he experienced. He created his on fate here. Moses is a squad player at best.

So RDM didn't give him the chance.Managerial support isn't something God given that player earns automatically without effort. It is something players have to deserve by working hard when given oportunity, for the team, with giving their best in every possible occasion. He doesn't need to be best passer around, but he has to pass when that is the best option. He has to shoot when it is the best option, and assist when someone else is in better position. Hard work and devotion, that is something managers need to put their trust in someone.Sturridge showed it in Bolton - he had managerial backing and support.Sturridge showed it iunder AVB and got managerial support.Sturridge is showing it under Rodgers hence he has his full support.But he wasn't showing it under RDM, he was 40% or less team player he was under AVB, or Coyle or Rodgers. He just stopped and started playing only towards the goal, shooting whenever he could, didn't see his teammates in front of the goal, missed oportunities to pass God knows how many times, most of the time, and was among majority of the fans the most frustrating player. What if he was sub. He came as sub against us and what did he do. He is capable to leave impression in 20 minutes, even less.Then they said, he is the striker, it's not his job to pass. Or he is playing in wrong position. Now they say RDM didn't give him support he needed. The truth nobody here is willing to admit, Sturridge had only Torres to compete with this season. Had he put 60% of effort he is putting in Liverpool like some claim, on rare given chances,( maybe he would get more chances?) he would have won his striker position in couple of months without problems at least by January, and gained RDM's trust.. Even from the wing because he had skill to play there, he played there for Liverpool when Suarez played up front.But he didn't. He played with 40% or less of what he was capable of under RDM. It was so evident on the pitch. You may claim he didn't have his favourite position, or he did't have RDM's support, but both of those things could have been won with hard work and effort. Especially for player with his skills and talent. He would have been our main striker by JAnuary had he played more responsable and for the team. But he wasn't willing to.There have been talks about Sturridge to Liverpool during summer, I guess he was unhappy because Drogba played as main striker in front of him. And what managerial support our players enjoyed this season? From the interim manager they knew exact date of leaving, booed by fans majority of time. They still don't know who will manage them in month. BTW Oscar is not playing on his position and didn't enjoy much of Benitez support. What was he supposed to do, shoot without purpose and miss passes and it would all be justified because manager didn't back him?Or was he supposed to work hard, improve himself, play like a proper team player and earn managers trust and support, this one and the next, even if he still doesn't have his position .

Yes, but what made RDM not having faith in him ? Care to answer? It's not like he had faith in Torres back then. Better question, what made AVB to have faith in Sturridge, that RDM didn't see? What was the difference? It certainly was not position he played.

Then answer me, if he was such great why RDM relegated him to the bench after Leicester game in FA cup and didn't even give him oportunity to start in CL just like he didn't give oportunity to Torres. Yes I know he plays great for Liverpool, but I'm talking about Sturridge I watched at Chelsea. There were some great driblings, beating defenders, passes but also lots shoots from imposible angles, not seeing Mata and Ramirez when needed to pass, lots goal attempts instead of simple passes that left lots of fans even RDM and some players frustrated with his play. If you need reminisence, just read trough matches he played for us. Sturridge in Liverpool is different from Sturridge in Chelsea, otherways he would have never been sold. That is the point, Liverpool suits him more than we did. Deal with it.

Yes, he will, but in Liverpool fc. There is no guarantee he would do the same here. Liverpool style of play suits him much more than ours, and is and was much more different than ours. He is not that suitable for link up plays we are trying to achieve and brought Mazascar for. He needs lots of space, he didn't have it at Chelsea. He is much better in concentrating on goal only, rather than play in general. Our future striker will not have that luxury, that's why most of us want Cavany type rather than Falcao type. Given that striker who scores every game, doesn't even have to pass, selling him was a mistake, but the mistake he himself made us to make by refusing to play good on wing temporary and slowly fight for striker position with Torres. Had he persisted, he would have won that position by January.

The real question about Sturridge is how come he plays three times better in LIverpool that he played here. Yes, awful position. He played in same awful position at Liverpool, and still managed to score and assist. He played in the same awful position here, and still managed to score and assist. And than he stoped, got frustrated because there was no way for him to fight for and win striker position with all mighty Torres there. Maybe he confused him for Cavani, who knows. I wrote a post here long ago where I compared him with Thiery Henry and RVP from Arsenal ( can't find it). I wouldn't ever do that if I hadn't believed how good Sturridge was. And that is why I was frustrated with him - he didn't play his best football here claiming he was not happy with position. Nevermind that playing on the wing makes young skilful striker better all around player and improves his movement around the box. After all, both RVP and Henry started that way and it didn't harm him, because they had skill. Like Sturridge. He is good at Liverpool, as I assumed he would be. Liverpoll style of play can make any decent striker into a profilic goal scorer nevermind someone skilful like Sturridge. LIverpool is,( with Man Utd), by far the best place for strikers. Like Owen, Fowler and even Torres know .They play fast, with long and trough balls, they move ball quickly which leaves much time for the front three to act and make something before opposite defenders manage to block them properly. All they needed after Alonso departure was a midfilder able to provide these balls on regular bases, and they got him in Coutinho. With his services and LIverpool style of play, Sturridge and Suares will work great. It's no - branier. On the other hand in Chelsea - our style is slower. We usualy play from defender to DM/CM than to attacking mid in Hazard to Mata and than to a striker- Ba. Our circulation of ball is slower and before top three get it, opposite defenders manage to position themselves pretty good, which leaves top three with less space for maneuver. Whether you liked it or not, Sturridge has more space in Liverpool than any our future striker will have here. Last but not the least, it's not just board, Sturridge didn't feel like fight for his striker position even though, with only Torres as his competition, he only needed time this season. And yes, Liverpool style of play suits him much more than ours. Yes, there is ex players thread for a reason, but if we continue discuss about Sturridge after every goal he scores, this thread will become more active than any thread about our current players soon enough.

But next year is different! They have Sturridge, the next best striker in the League, t better than we will have anyway! And Coutinho, and Suarez... Definitly favourites . I just don't get where this logic came from , if striker thrives in LIverpool he would thrive in Chelsea too . We didn't give him enough chances. Just 55 games. But they were from the wing, he never plays for Liverpool from the wing. That's destructive position for his talent. Bolton 12 aps 8 goals. Leverpool 15 aps 11 goals. Chelsea 55 aps 15 goals. Was it only about position?