ElNinoSemper

I understand where you're coming from. Torres' arrival in the January window was unfortunate timing in several ways; we were going through a slump, our strikers were misfiring (as well as some other key players in the squad), Torres himself was not in form. It was always going to take a while for all the dust to settle but the pressure was on from the get go. Then the forwards got greedy, everyone trying to force himself out of a bad run and in so doing, playing rather selfishly. I think it's fair to say they felt threatened by his arrival. But now Drogba has recently scored, Malouda scored today. Hopefully this will ease the pressure for them and they'll be more inclined towards working more with Torres. Torres just turned 27. That leaves a good four to five years of quality we can get from him. Not to mention the other profits the club will make on his name alone in the coming years. I'd say that's enough reason to justify making him a priority at the club in the coming years.

Should have been more but we'll take the win. The subs really changed the tempo and style of play, think Carlo got it right in this match for a change. And some have been saying it for a while but Yossi/Torres looks like it could really work. Yossi is back not a moment too soon for Fernando.

It's really easy to write Torres off now because it isn't happening for him. But when the tide turns, and it will, I wonder how fast the hymn sheets will be changed over for the new tunes to be sung. But I suppose in the meantime, the naysayers will continue to have a field day.

Have only just watched the matched, thought Fernando looked very good in the minutes he was in. Clearly the gelling isn't quite there yet with the rest of the team; his attempted 1-2 with Lampard didn't quite materialize, Lamps wasn't on the same page at all unfortunately. To me, it looked like Fernando was quicker and sharper than anyone else out there and they were just not reading/catching up with him. A bit frustrating really.

Still talking about Torres. The team doth protests too much methinks. Although I can't believe Gerrard allowed himself to get dragged into this kind of talk. Has he forgotten when he was constantly saying Fernando was the best striker in the world?

Ominous for Chelsea. Maybe he's just burnt out? The selfishness is probably his desperation to try and force himself out of whatever slump he's currently in. But it's backfiring and not looking too good for him.

That's exactly what it's like. It's clearly a very bitter pill to swallow for them hence the bleating and whining and gloating at every turn. In a way, it's pretty flattering. If he was a nobody, it wouldn't matter but clearly Torres was a very significant somebody to them, much as they try to deny it now. Sure he is in a funk now, but he won't be in one forever. And then what will all the so-call pundits say then? It's actually pretty sad to hear them rout on him like this. The dude changed clubs, that's it. They'd have all done the same thing, in his position. Didn't watch the Spain game, too bad Fernando didn't have a great game. Clearly if the manager has more in form players at his disposal, it's totally understandable that he'd select them over Torres at the moment. Hope it won't be too much of a knock on his confidence, though it's hard not to see it having an impact. He just needs to keep his head down and focus on his game and ride out this phase. As they say, it's always darkest just before dawn.

I agree, sadly. Really hope we're wrong though as Ancelotti seems bent on playing Malouda.

Bringing this over from the ratings thread, yes greedy Malouda made an appearance again today. The Torres thing aside, he just seems really desperate to score. How else can one explain the wild shots from tight angles that he must know have very little chance of going in? It's probably time for him to be 'rotated' a little more often now. He was the worst player on the pitch today and lately he's been more of a detriment to the team than an advantage. And afterall, if Drogba can be benched there's no reason why he can't be either. Or as an alternative, play him when Drogba plays. He seems more willing to work with DD than he does Fernando at this point, for whatever reason.

Ha! Wishful thinking on that part I'm afraid. If it's true that's awesome. Them Liverpool fans have nothing on the AM fanboys who worship the ground he walks on.

Cech 7 - Was under pressure early on when City were on fire but made the necessary saves. Solid as always. Ivanovic 7 - Lively game from him, made a few impressive runs up the flanks and was generally solid too. Luiz 8 - going to be a bit contrary here because I thought he had an average first half. Came alive in the second and how!. Was tempted to give a nine but he's still being rash with the challenges. Terry 8 - Powerful and indomitable at the back. Great stuff from our skipper. Ashley Cole 7 - looked livelier and got involved up front as well. Solid game. Essien 7 - Looked better than I've seen him for awhile. Ramires 9 - Pace, skill and relentless hunger. He's really coming into his own and played a blinder. MOTM for me. Lampard 6 - Not having a good spell at the moment, was the weak link for me in the midfield. Malouda 4 - Becoming a real liability to be honest. Too interested in the glory headlines for himself and not playing for the team. His crossing and passing were atrocious too. Time for prolonged period on the bench methinks. Kalou 8 - Effective from the start. Had great pace and worked well with Torres. More please. Torres 8 - easily the best he's been since he joined. Dogged determination, fantastic movement and glimpses of his awesome skills. I can't wait for him to catch fire and put all the naysayers to shame. SUBS Nicolas Anelka 5 - ineffective to be honest. Didier Drogba 6 - muscled a few defenders out the way but the slump continues, unfortunately. Yuri Zhirkov 5 - didn't see enough of him, wish he'd come on much earlier. [

Actually I think it did JT some good to have the captaincy stripped from him. Personal life or not, you can't be the leader you need to be when there's an air of distrust and resentment even if if it's just amongst a few in your team. There's a Machiavelli quote I love which basically says it isn't titles that honour men but men that honour titles. I think it's quite apt in this case. But lesson learnt I'm sure and I am glad he's gotten it back.

I don't get the fixation either. If Torres was the first player to go for that kind of money, I guess it would make more sense but considering there are three other players who have gone for more (and several more behind him who after inflation adjustment would cost more than Torres did today), it's not that unheard of. It's massive money yes, but consider the source. I agree with the sentiment that no player is worth that sort of money but that financial barrier was broken years and years ago. Torres isn't the first nor will he be the last big money transfer. Once he starts scoring consistently the scrutiny will be less but until someone else is bought for a higher price, the British press are going to continue to tag him as the 50million pound man.

I'd much rather Zhirkov started instead of greedy Malouda.

I'd like to see Kalou start with Torres in this match. Perhaps in a 4-4-1-1? There are no "safe" games but Copenhagen at home is as close as it gets so now might be a good time to experiment with the front line a little bit.

Precisely. The truth hurts, as they say, and that more than anything is why Liverpool fans are so incensed. Doesn't sound like he regrets it one bit either, which will make them all the more bitter. I find it highly amusing - and telling - that they still have Torres threads in their different forums to discuss his every move. And I mean every move. Post after post dissecting his play, of course almost all of them negative. If they hate him so much, and are ecstatic with the Suarez and Carroll signings, why do they bother? Hmm....

That's correct. Pretty much sums up my feeling right now. More than their current poor form, which ordinarily I can live with because everyone has ups and downs, it's the style of play their concerns me. We need to move away from the power-era (on and off field!) led by Drogba and inject some creativity and sleekness into the team. Not sure these players could fit in or if they even want to. That said, I wouldn't mind retaining Kalou because I think he could work quite well playing behind Torres.

No offense but that's really narrow thinking. People are obsessing about the amount of money paid for him but c'mon, this is Torres; he's already paying that money back even without scoring goals. I pretty sure I read somewhere recently that the club has made approximately 12million pounds on his shirts in the month since he's joined.. Even if that's not entirely accurate, I'm not worried at all about his price tag because we'll get that money back, at the very least, from sales of merchandise with his name on it. So taking away the weight of the money, have his performances over the past five games been so awful? He had a terrible game against Liverpool, understandably in my book, and didn't have a great game against Blackpool. The other three matches, he's looked sharper and fitter and more spirited than he's looked for that other club he'd been playing for this year. Especially the Man U and Copenhagen matches. He's such a different type of player from how the team usually plays ( i really like Pat Nevin's battering ram analogy), it was always going to take time for him to adjust and adapt and for the team to do the same. If there's a criticism, I would suggest that the big mistake was in the timing of his transfer, when the team is struggling to maintain top 4 and there's no real time for experimentation and adjustment. So I'm always taken aback when people rush to say five games in, he's a flop. It's a very linear, narrow way of looking at things; not seeing the big picture at all. A year from now, if he's still in the same form, I would totally understand such thinking. Five games in, I really can't. But that's just me.

Hmm. I understood the 50 million was an investment for five years, not five games. Silly me.

Steely core is exactly it. He's a lot harder than the pretty boy looks and quiet nature suggest. I suspect why that's partly why Gerrard was reluctant to criticise him recently, Torres up and did what Gerrard could not, even though he wanted to. That and they seem to have clicked on and off the field. It's not going great guns at the moment but that's only temporary. Whatever the dressing room dynamics are with Malouda and co, I don't see him folding anytime soon, much to their dismay I would imagine. Totally agree. I've always thought he is better that Villa.

Good points re:Malouda. He probably suspects he's out the door anyway come summertime so what's the worst that could happen if he sticks it to the new boy? I hope that's not what's unfolding but it certainly seems that way, especially after tonight. Jermain Defoe said something this past week but not scoring and having a poor season, like Rooney and Torres but that having support makes all the difference. Man U stuck with Rooney playing until he scored again and Defoe scored twice at the weekend. The positive is Torres appears to have Ancelotti's support, he certainly has RA's. Terry and Lampard have been vocal and enthusiastic about his arrival as well so there's that. The Malouda/Drogb/Kalou camp, as it appears to have formed in this context, might end up on the losing side of this one.

Jose Bosingwa 4 - Uneven performance. Started off well and ended badly and almost let in a goal very carelessly. David Luiz 6 - No fireworks for him today. Thought he struggled a little bit actually, which was a bit surprising. John Terry 8 - Very solid, great composure and a goal to boot. He didn't look half pleased with his lads at the end though. Ashley Cole 6 - Quiet game. Didn't really make an impact. Ramires 6 - One of the better players of the night but still decidedly average by his burgeoning standards. Frank Lampard 8 - Good game from him. Looked sharp and solid. Micheal Essien 7 - Solid. No complaints from me about him. Yuri Zhirkov 3 - dire today. Total contrast from the Man U game. Not really helping his cause with this sort of performance. Fernando Torres 5 - one his weaker games in a blue shirt so far but largely down to the ridiculous lack of service. The team was just not behind him today. Didier Drogba 4 - moody performance. Needed to grab the bull by the horns and put on a commanding performance but he looked like he couldn't be bothered. SUBS Florent Malouda 4 - his me me me show was extremely irritating. Wasted what could have been surefire goals trying to be the last minute hero. Soloman Kalou 6 - his turn to pull a 'Zhirkov' and make an impact with his substitution. He upped the tempo of play but also wasted some nice chances. Josh McEachran 5 - unremarkable but just glad he's getting some playing time.

It was obvious this time. Towards the end there Malouda definitely wasn't interested in passing to him. I was quick to dismiss this earlier but I'm starting to wonder if something's up behind the scenes.

Well said and couldn't agree more. Reina isn't any happier than Fernando was before he left. In fact, when Captain Fantastic himself tried to leave the club, TWICE, not sure how other players who are in the EPL for the football and not for some long-existing "history" can be expected to swear undying loyalty to a club that simply isn't good enough. That's utter delusion by the fans.

Interesting read indeed. People choose to forget that Torres could have left Liverpool much, much earlier. He didn't, until it was clear he, and the club, wasn't going anywhere fast. He's too young and too talented to mire himself in mediocrity. But the truth is hard to swallow I suppose.