Tomo

Probably because he's not constantly called every name under the sun while people say there's no signs of a top player there. Had that happened I imagine that performance would be getting referred to quite regularly (like Mount's August-September performances are repeatedly brought up not just by me and I think even sometimes by you because of the moronic abuse he was getting in some quarters in winter time).

Since Sarri has come in (ie since we commited to changing our style so drastically) i have consistently said that it will take time to bare fruit properly, and it was going to be a few years until we were challenging for the league again, maybe you should have adapted your expectations to a more realistic level at that point aswell. It will be the beginning of next season minimum my expectations will be back at "title challenge" because we are trying to shift our style/personnel at the same time two of the best ever PL sides are at the absolute peak of their powers. To demand/expect any form of title challenge under these circumstances is moronic, didn't we use to laugh at Liverpool fans for unrealistic expectations? I could just about get over your "win or we're shit, no grey areas" mindset if we had the old guard in their prime, but even the most demanding Real Madrid fans would probably have a little bit more understanding than you if they were rebuilding in play style while bringing through homegrown talent and alongside that Barca and Atleti were 100 point level teams. Your expectations given the squad we have are just simply far too high.

I only "bring it up" because of the amount of times it's implied there's zero signs of something good from Lampard and that's one of the games that strongly support my side of the argument. And if we had the old guard in their prime I would agree very few games should/would be looked at as "some grand achievement", but when you're trying to build a team to eventually challenge for the major trophies, for example Billy Gilmour was raved over after Grimsby but had that been Jorginho he obviously wouldn't have been.

It's not realistic to expect us to lose a game changer and rebuild with multiple young players and challenge the elite immediately. Rooney and Ronaldo are two of the best player's of the previous era. They had Scholes, Rio, Giggs, RVN, VDS (who were all better then than anything we currently have now bar Kante if he gets his level back) and were being trained by the best ever manager and even then they needed time to be ready to lead United to title challenges. Our boys have a manager in a similar boat to them and no serious top leaders to guide them, we could be Real Madrid and it would still be unrealistic (if not unreasonable) to ask that there's no growing pains.

That would make a lot of sense if I actually was. If we're going to down this route of basing the level of big game/achievement of result based on the teams record, then can I raise winning 5-2 at a Wolves side that scalp big teams as a hobby?

On reflection I'll probably give that I was a bit too hasty with City but if we look at the others. Liverpool, the team that's likely to become the best team in PL history had to park a double decker to get the win, the crowd happily adknowleged how well they played at full time. Ajax, outplayed last season's semi finalist (admittedly without the star man from that run) in their own stadium. Better side on all four occasions against the North London clubs (bar the first 30 minutes at The Emirates). Furthermore, my initial post was in response to someone fearing we will get spanked. Even if I was wrong about what i said I don't think there's any argument that we've shown enough in the big games to show we can make a tie of it against Bayern, at the very least.

Then quite frankly that makes it even more embarrassing that you're offering no leeway to a team who lost their game changer and are trying to rebuild with academy players (most of whom playing their first season in a major league). If Bayern narrowly beat us over two legs say 3-4 and we more than match them, will I be happy and walking round going "woo woo we lost 3-4"? Ofcourse not and I'll probably be even more gutted than usual given we ran them so close, but would I be proud of our young lads for going toe to toe against one of Europe's best sides at the first time (a big European knockout tie) of asking? Absolutely, and I can confidently predict more would be than won't, even on here.

While we're in the spirit of honesty you remind me of the spoilt 12 year old United fans when I was at school who want it all and want it now and spit their dummy out when they don't get it. Its your type of mentality and lack of patience that lost us De Bruyne. As I said I never said I was happy with the result against Arsenal, that's just you twisting my words to suit the stigma you're trying to build on me. For example, say against Bayern we are the better team and we are going into injury time 1-0 up, are you that narrow minded your opinion on whether the first 90 minutes were good or shit come down to whether we concede or don't in injury time?

Let me guess, you have "but this isn't Jupp or Pep's Bayern" templated ready just incase we go through?

To play devils advocate Liverpool and City are even better than Bayern and we matched both and were extremely unlucky to come away with nothing. Infact apart from the United games and Ajax at home we've probably been the better side in every big game this season. Over 180 minutes their individual quality will probably prove too much (that or our shit finishing will see to us) but I can't see this tie being a humiliation, certainly not at Stamford Bridge, we will give it a good go.

I would go 3atb again but it's crucial that even if it works Lampard learns his lesson from the Wolves then Valencia/Spurs then Southampton situations and doesn't stick to it at Bournemouth. It's a horses for courses formation. I can't confidently predict a result given how bad our finishing is but I feel we will fare better then people think.

Yeah basically this. I love Giroud and he has earned some more starts due to his performances this week but he's a very streaky player and that will come to the fore before long. Hopefully he can sign off by helping us secure top 4 and win another trophy.

James RCB, Trent RWB.

If Ole pulls back his mask we'll see Dalglish. A shit manager somehow managing to keep beating us, particularly at Stamford Bridge.

Ive never disagreed with that and infact I've been very critical myself of how he broke up the Kova, Jorgi, Mount midfield for example, something I hope he's learned from. What i take exception too (and back it up) is when there's talk that there's no potential of him being a top coach, ones that only tend to show up after bad results (notice a certain coincidental absence?) or trivial stuff when I say a performance wasn't shit somehow leads to someone translating that to me apparently being happy with the result

We didn't, he did last season with Derby and we were outdone tactically and won because we had the superior players. Difference with Roy is he is a finished article manager, he won't be developing or improving. Lampard has the scope to improve but I do agree he has to develop the consistency, but in my opinion he's earned that chance next season all things considered. Yes Jose is definitely yesterday's manager but even now he rarely gets so out classed by the same man three times on the spin, even against Pep he usually finds something passing an answer every now and again even if it involves sticking all his players in the box. Regarding Ajax, I would have praised the performance in that game even if we didn't win, Ajax have had the style of football we're trying to adopt ingrained in their club for decades and we went there and schooled them at their own game, would be the stylistic equivalent of Arsenal coming to The Bridge in the Drogba, Ballack days and overpowering us.

Lampard is the first manager to do the league double on Mourinho. How ironic is that?

Three times now he's throughly out thought Mourinho, outfoxed Ten Hag in Amsterdam and has faced Klopp, Pep and Sarri with vastly inferior teams and had his side looking tactically on point. Yes he's made mistakes that he will need to cut it out to ultimately make it here, but anyone who says there's no potential of a top coach in there is talking shit.

I kid you not the day we won at The Emirates one of his first reactions was to tell us he thinks they may do us at The Bridge. And now we have a certain member trying to outdo him on doomsday theories to the point he tries and twists people's words. This place is going to the dogs and no one who can do anything to reverse it is.

I never said I was happy, if you're going to quote me either do it accurately or stop wasting mine and everyone's time. I have on many occasions stated it was irresponsible to let that result slip but just because I'm not saying the performance from minute 1 to 90 was shit you're creating this fantasy that I was happy with the result and trying to set a stigma towards me.

No, I just look beyond the score when accessing a performance. I've called a 6-0 win at Wigan a shit performance and a 2-4 defeat to City earlier that year a good one, I also (and you can check my history) critised the performance at Burnley even though it was on paper the most convincing win of the season, also the best performance I've ever seen by any team ever guess what? The team in question actually drew the match.

Same as Baba Rahman, the desperation to see his competition dropped lead people to concuct ability that isn't there.

I didn't explicitly state possession. And being a man up doesn't equate to guarenteed domination, have you forgotten the CL tie against Paris when we had much better players than now? I've repeatedly stated that we should not escape blame for conspiring to draw that night, but the fact so many people called the overall performance shit just serves to back up my theory that a lot of people base their view on the match just by looking at the score.

If you're referring to me that would make a lot of sense if I actually said that.

Three guarentee's in life. Death, taxes and you hyping up Arsenal.