OhForAGreavsie

Also happened a couple of matches ago.

He's on the bench against Norwich tonight.

If someone reading this was at St. Mary's, would you tell us please how this looked on the day. As far as could be told from the coverage no one did talk to Baba and encourage him to get his head up but, watching at home, we could only see what the director chose to show us of course. Did any geeing up happen off camera?

Blind men perhaps but at least two sighted ones have ignored Charlay and selected Oscar. Be that as it may because what has it got to do with anything anyway? Charlay is also better than me but does that make him good enough for the new manager's squad? To earn a place in the squad next season, Charlay, and everyone else come to that , has to persuade the person who is going to select the squad that they deserve to be in it. You're a formidable debater if you can find a flaw in that proposition.

Easier for us to say perhaps than it is for Charlay to do. In order to sell Conte, or whoever, the idea that he's good enough, Charlay has to actually be good enough and that is the hard part of course.

Pato is not involved in tonight's 21s game.

Agreed. Already looks likely to have his pick of teams if and when he leaves Rennes.

What did people make of Guss's reaction when asked at today's press conference if there was any update re the managerial appointment? For those who didn't see it, Guss looked at Steve Atkins for a moment in silence then said, "Steve?", at which point Atkins gave a firm, "No.", as the answer. My take is that there has been a development but that Guss didn't know if he was authorised to say so.

Great news. There is a persistent strand of opinion on here that Chelsea is a graveyard for young footballers, that, for the sake of their careers, young men should not join us and that those we already have should leave. Ruben and his advisers will be as well acquainted with such a viewpoint as any of us are, but they have better facts than we do. Putting pen to paper is therefore a pretty eloquent statement on their part. Very happy for Ruben and for Chelsea.

Agreed although I've lost interest in Remy now so would rather see Pato used instead. All things being equal, I'd give Pato forty-five to sixty minutes at Southampton tonight and then start him as an AM on Saturday with Bertie up top. That would also rest Tammy Abraham from what has been a hectic schedule so he can prepare for the 21s semi-final on Friday.

In the conference today Guus gave some fairly broad hints that he is going to prioritise PSG & Everton and that we'll see at least some rotation vs Norwich, and especially Stoke. The especially Stoke bit is my guess not anything Guss said.

^^ Update: When Guus was asked about Pato at today's press conference he first tried to duck the question by talking about Traore again but then, under some better questioning (at last), he stated that Pato is ready for some minutes though not a full ninety. He said he would have to see this afternoon whether Pato would be in tomorrow's squad and then returned to the Traore theme, suggesting that Bertie can be considered to be ahead of our latest Brazilian. The way Guss said this leaves room to interpret it as meaning because of fitness issues but I think it's hard to escape the suspicion that Guus actually just prefers Bertie full stop. If that suspicion is true then I can't say I'm surprised but I am a bit disappointed because, if those people who rate Pato rather more than I do are right, he would be particularly useful in Pedro's absence.

I saw the first thirty minutes and then the whole of the second half. You are absolutely right of course and I'm glad that more considered assessments of Charlay's performances are coming to the fore. I like the lad very much and I'm hopeful for him but I felt that some of the opinions expressed in this thread recently were a bit over enthusiastic. There was one impression I formed on Saturday evening that I was pleased about. Charlay wasn't dibbling into traffic as frequently as he had in his earlier games for Betis. If that is a sign of development, and not just a one-off, then this is real progress. If it is real, then it is a step away from the vanity of wanting to look like a star and toward becoming the cool and effective performer that professional coaches need. It would also represent good work by Betis and/or Paulo in helping him get a grip on that, and good sense by Charlay in taking lessons on board so quickly.

The 21s have a game at St. Mary's tonight. Unless Pato is going to be in the squad for Norwich, there can be absolutely no reason why he should not get some minutes there. After four weeks of pre-season he must be able to manage some sort of appearance even if not an actual start. If there is no sign of him over the next couple of nights, and we keep being fed the he's in pre-season line, then the club are hiding something.

That's a good point. I reckon Ozil, the lads at Spurs and, especially, those at Leicester will fill most of the places on the short lists. That said many pundits, including those still playing, have noticed Willian's form, not least because he has stuck out like a sore thumb in our season of woe. He might therefore get a mention or two along the way.

I remember being severely criticised in the summer of 2013 for saying I believed that Nathan was a far better prospect than Nate Chalobah; that I was disappointed Nate was selected for that year's tour while Nathan was not, and that Jose would be unable to make good on his promise that Calobah would have a place in the first team squad during the following season. On the other hand, I have often said that I didn't think Nathan was a natural let back and I didn't think he had a future at the position. One all maybe?

Obviously you're aware that Guus does know Baba's age, and does understand the need to protect the confidence of young people, so what are you actually saying here? You are saying that you want Guus to make the same decisions you think you would. I say you think you would because if you had all of the information Guus does, the knowledge gained from working with the young man six days a week since December, his assessment of the kid's personality and motivational triggers, then for all we know, you might see things the same way Guus does. Leaving that aside however, and accepting it to be possible that you are right and Guus is wrong, there is still a difficulty here. Given his lifetime involvement at the top of the game, why on Earth would he think you know better than he does? How on Earth could Guus persuade himself to ignore his own opinions and go with your ideas instead? Imagine if he turned up at a press conference and said he'd done that? He'd be laughed off the planet. You nor I have a record which remotely compares with Guus's, yet we still have confidence in our views about football. How much easier is it for Guus to have the same degree of self-confidence when he has repeatedly proved to himself, and everyone else, that his ideas work? The man took all the factors of which he's aware into account and made a decision, a decision he has earned the right to make.

Jed is not in the squad for tonight's game. Does anyone know if it's an injury, a suspension or a 'rest'?

It wasn't his first error of the day by any means plus, it's just a guess but, I don't think Guus has any belief in him. People keep saying play Baba to build his confidence but managers will only do that if they have a basic belief that the player will eventually repay the faith, that the player is good enough to be worth being patient with. Plenty of people here have that faith in Baba but Guus does not seem to. Like it or not our manager has earned the right to back his own judgement.

Not even you believe that.

I bet Guus did. Kennedy on the other hand must have been delighted JT was absent. He got 45 minutes because of it.

Absolutely!

Poor display; hate it while it's happening but now it's over I don't care. If we have any good performances left in us this season I'd just as soon save them for the visit of Paris and, especially, for the trip to Everton. Lessons to be learned from today but no new ones. Nothing has been revealed to be broken today that we didn't already know was broken.

Sorry, sorry. If you live next door to me I'm sorry about the noise!!

I've a feeling Guus doesn't really believe in him but felt hemmed in by a lack of options. I think it'll be back to the bench for Baba when JT returns.